Aircraft Departure Gate Positional Data Conflicts With Government Story- Possible Plane Swap?

In another blockbuster from Pilots for 911 Truth, they discover that the Flight Data Recorder positional data provided by the National Transportation Safety Board does not match the alleged gate that Flight 77 supposedly departed from.

And worse, it could point to a possible plane swap- something that 911 truthers have long suspected.

After adjusting a Lat/Long offset based on drift prone to the navigational equipment utilized, the positional data has the aircraft departing a gate further east of Gate D26 and on the north side of the Concourse.

Once again the data being offered by government agencies do not support their theories.

Is this a possible aircraft swap before they even left the ground? Pilots For 9/11 Truth discover evidence of possible airborne aircraft swaps as well in their latest release "9/11: Intercepted". In almost 10 years since the attacks of 9/11, there hasn't been any evidence offered thus far which supports the government version of events, nor evidence linking their data to their reported allegations.

Please visit the article and have a look at the photos and positions of the two gates.

So how many government officials does it take to nail a coffin shut?

hey mate, this could be HUGE!

I would however like some clarification on what this means, and how they reached their conclusion:

After adjusting a Lat/Long offset based on drift prone to the navigational equipment utilized, the positional data has the aircraft departing a gate further east of Gate D26 and on the north side of the Concourse

What I mean is what is the drift, how did they apply this to the INS position. I'd imagine "drift" would be something applied when flying not on the ground.

Any pilots on ATS?

If this were only true, it would be a huge dent in the OS!! But would they send a plane out from a commercial airport, I suppose if they wanted to make the mission look realistic and have the same flightpath of the actual flight it replaced they would. Very interesting!

I don't see it. If you displace the aircraft's position in the vertical direction so it is on the runway, it's M1 point lines up with gate D26.
If you look at the pictures here and here, and compare the two, you can see that they shifted the GPS positions both vertical and horizontal and have the plane travelling / taxiing well off of the taxiway. Offset the coordinates to the left, so the plane is on the taxiway and you'll know what I mean.

Very interesting stuff indeed, I will check it out immediately. Thank you for the heads up S+F

This is is really looking good, even though I cannot pretend to dig the pilots technical lingo

Although this is seemingly very interesting and possibly incriminating...what does it matter? It's no more incriminating and/or subversive than countless other aspects of 9/11 that directly point to one conclusion. THAT THE GOV'T IS LYING ABOUT 9/11. The vast majority of people who have any ability to think critically and have spent more than 2 seconds thinking about the official story have already come to this conclusion and there need not be any more evidence to support it. WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO ABOUT IT? That is the question that must now be addressed.

reply to post by TrueAmerican

The usual suspects over at PffffffffT making a complete hash of it. They even had to pretend that John Farmer (who knows more about AA77 than the vast majority I know) had started making up recordings of ground control at IAD, since it directly refuted their pet theory!

You can read his entire slamdown here, apparently PfffffffT didn't like having John Farmer posting things on their forums: forums.randi.org...

Hmm, well it has come to my attention that this thread may not be allowed, as apparently there seems to be some conflict with ATS and Rob Balsamo, who has apparently been banned from here. So I don't know if this will be here much longer. Oh well. I thought it was a good story.

Originally posted by TrueAmerican
Hmm, well it has come to my attention that this thread may not be allowed, as apparently there seems to be some conflict with ATS and Rob Balsamo, who has apparently been banned from here. So I don't know if this will be here much longer. Oh well. I thought it was a good story.

Just read this at screwloose about him: "in reality, Rob Balsamo is a former airline pilot with no discernible skills in mathematics or physics and a history of making outrageous mistakes in his calculations."

So does this mean ALL other pilots do have? I am not clear what the qualifications for being a pilot are?

Originally posted by zimishey
Just read this at screwloose about him: "in reality, Rob Balsamo is a former airline pilot with no discernible skills in mathematics or physics and a history of making outrageous mistakes in his calculations."

Would you mind explaining to me how you can be a former airline pilot with no discernible skills in mathematics or physics? What kind of people do airlines hire? Grocery store boys? ... Terrorists?

Originally posted by TrueAmerican

Originally posted by zimishey
Just read this at screwloose about him: "in reality, Rob Balsamo is a former airline pilot with no discernible skills in mathematics or physics and a history of making outrageous mistakes in his calculations."

Would you mind explaining to me how you can be a former airline pilot with no discernible skills in mathematics or physics? What kind of people do airlines hire? Grocery store boys? ... Terrorists?

Presumably it has to do with one of Balsamos earlier claims that AA77 overshot the Pentagon, while bombs or whatever went off instead, and the proceeded to do a turn to follow the Potomac River and make an anonymous getaway (as anonymous as can be when it involves flying straight into the path of other aircraft, but never mind).

Someone crunched the numbers and worked out, that with the speed and the rate of turn involved, the airplane would have endured 11.2g doing such a turn. Not very realistic.

The alternative is the CIT-theory, which involves the airplane making a ludicrous amount of twists and turns to fit the flightpath put forward by CIT and PffffffT.

reply to post by roboe


Well the point was that "screwloose" exaggerated the issue to the point of stupidity. Rob's a capable guy with enough personal experience on aircraft systems that what he's saying needs to be considered.

reply to post by roboe



Good thread and info OP.


Unfortunately a couple of things don't sound authentic and or add up in your audio track.
At 0:06 they say "DIXIE TWENTY SIX"...

1.) the use of "DIXIE"
2.) the use of "Twenty-Six"

That would be "DELTA TWO-SIX" in aviation speak.

For consistency, No one in aviation uses DIXIE any longer except some old timers (WWII) and/or at the DELTA Airlines main hub in (ATL) Atlanta. OR Law Enforcement.

Also, you'd have to first go from ramp control to ground control in order to gain taxi clearance and an assigned taxi way and runway..After handoff from Ramp Control you switch frequencies to Ground Control's frequency.
Ramp control would not assign a runway for departure without providing a taxiway to get there.

This sound fake to me...
Give me a break !

The 9/11 obfuscation continues...

Originally posted by nh_ee
reply to post by roboe

 

Also, you'd have to first go from ramp control to ground control in order to gain taxi clearance and an assigned taxi way and runway..After handoff from Ramp Control you switch frequencies to Ground Control's frequency.
Ramp control would not assign a runway for departure without providing a taxiway to get there.

This sound fake to me...
Give me a break !

The 9/11 obfuscation continues...

Some friendly advice. Both the tapes from Ramp Control and Ground Control are available at the Arlington Public Library and also available via FOIA from the FAA.

These tapes are authenticated by the Controllers involved to be true and exact copies of the original. To manipulate them in anyway is a FELONY.

Controllers are not prominent Officials as are others unjustifiably accused of horrendous crimes, so they can sue for LIABLE. Since I know one of the controllers, I have made a screen shot of your comments. If you or anyone else continue to make these type of allegations I will send this to him immediately. He can decide what he wants to do after reviewing your comments.

Originally posted by TrueAmerican
In another blockbuster from Pilots for 911 Truth, they discover that the Flight Data Recorder positional data provided by the National Transportation Safety Board does not match the alleged gate that Flight 77 supposedly departed from.

And worse, it could point to a possible plane swap- something that 911 truthers have long suspected.

After adjusting a Lat/Long offset based on drift prone to the navigational equipment utilized, the positional data has the aircraft departing a gate further east of Gate D26 and on the north side of the Concourse.

Once again the data being offered by government agencies do not support their theories.

Is this a possible aircraft swap before they even left the ground? Pilots For 9/11 Truth discover evidence of possible airborne aircraft swaps as well in their latest release "9/11: Intercepted". In almost 10 years since the attacks of 9/11, there hasn't been any evidence offered thus far which supports the government version of events, nor evidence linking their data to their reported allegations.

Please visit the article and have a look at the photos and positions of the two gates.

So how many government officials does it take to nail a coffin shut?

edit on Wed Mar 2nd 2011 by TrueAmerican because: (no reason given)

So when is PFT going to stop trying to plot coordinates on Google Earth images and plot real coordinates on real plans that have been accurately prepared to reflect actual horizontal data?

You know I went through the PFT stuff and nowhere in there do they actually give the location of the gates in degrees, minutes, seconds and fractions of a second. So basically, they are trying to tell me that so and so wasn't in a particluar place, yet they have no clue where that place was.

Lame.

Originally posted by hooper
You know I went through the PFT stuff and nowhere in there do they actually give the location of the gates in degrees, minutes, seconds and fractions of a second. So basically, they are trying to tell me that so and so wasn't in a particluar place, yet they have no clue where that place was. Lame.

It's not just lame, it the same deceptive garbage pfffft is well known for promoting to further their agenda. The gate coordinates are published on the Jeppesen plate for Dulles (IAD). An image of that plate is posted, if not at pffft, it's somewhere on one or more of the 9/11 related Forums. I suggest you don't bother plotting it as it's a waste of time and results in a pretzel like manipulation of the lat/long coordinates from the Flight Data Recorder (FDR).

The background on this is quite important as it helps to explain why this is being promoted/twisted at this time. Dr Frank Legg and Warren Stuff, two Australians, have published a paper on 911 Blogger essentially destroying Balsamo's premise regarding AA 77 at the Pentagon. Legg is a truther and Stutt is a computer programmer (not a truther), but they corroborated jointly on publishing the paper. Stutt decrypted an additional approximately 4 seconds from the FDR that neither the NTSB nor pfffft were able to decrypt. The paper published by Legg and Stutt contend that the data proves AA 77 impacted the Pentagon. pfffft (Balsamo), of course, disagree and they needed a "BLOCKBUSTER" as a counter-point to the Legg/Stutt paper. This contention that AA 77 DID NOT depart from the known gate is part of their charade along with another thread here initiated by the same OP as this one.

The subject matter is highly technical and there are only a very few people who post at ATS who understand it. The remainder are simply parrots of the headlines. It is an issue that is difficult to "dumb down" for the posters here, so that fits right into pffffft (Balsamo's) intent.

In order to arrive at the wrong gate theory the perpetrators of this charade have to shift coordinates for what they contend is known drift of the Inertial Reference Unit (Navigation System). Not surprisingly if that same shift in coordinates is applied on AA 77's arrival at the Pentagon it would show the aircraft North of the Citgo Service Station.

Based on empirical data from the AA 77 aircraft's previous 25 hours of FDR data we know the Navigation System in that aircraft was very inaccurate on the ground. Every flight plotted shows that it was displaced from the proper coordinates on the ground by varying amounts. It was reasonably accurate during flight because the system updates it's position from ground based Navigation Aids. It does not update while on the ground and it drifts.

As was pointed out earlier in this thread the position can be manipulated or shifted to show whatever one wants to shows. pffffft (Balsamo) have shifted the coordinates to show the aircraft departed from a different gates that the one known and different from what the communications between the aircraft and ground control agencies show (ground control tape posted above). The ramp control tape is also available (posted at JREF and reveals the same thing as the ground control tape. That is the aircraft departed from Gate D-26 at IAD as is shown by the tapes and by American Airlines employee witnesses at IAD who were involved in support of the aircraft's departure.

ETA: To believe this crap one has to prove/believe that Jason Dahl (RIP) did not make those radio calls, ramp control of the IAD/FAA, all of the American Airlines support personnel who assisted in the departure of AA 77 from Gate D-26 are all IN ON THE CONSPIRACY. It all fits quite well into the ever expanding inflationary model of a false conspiracy.