What the Bible teaches about homosexuality.

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

realize you're still quoteing a book that was written thousands of years ago, and has been rewritten to suit various rulers agenda...

I'll say it again...


"Are you familiar with the term “irony?” We know what the Bible really says because it was copied and re-copied so many times. Ask any scholar: The more copies there are of an ancient text, the easier it is to compare them and determine what the original said, and the Bible has exponentially more early copies than any other ancient text. Not only that, but the earliest copies date closer to the original than any other ancient text. Also, there being so many copies of the original makes it impossible for any group to “suppress” anything that they didn’t like."

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Considering it was illegal and punishable for anyone to possess a bible in ancient times other then members of the church...

Sorry man, it was rewritten over and over....Not to mention the 80 some odd scriptures that were left out of the bible...

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

All too often we assume man's interpretation of God written in a book is the actual truth, when the actual truth is beyond all comprehension.

Let me get this straight.. Are you implying God has the technology to create the universe out of nothing but doesn't have the technology to get a message to us revealing Himself??

God does not hate homosexuality, because God does not hate.

False. God hates sin.

If you believe God hates anything, (which I'm sure we have very different definitions of what God is. He is not an old dude in the sky to me) then there is no discussion to be had.

I do believe you're correct though, your god cannot hate anything,

because he doesn't exist.

Haha, you feel so strongly, I can tell. But God revealed nothing to you, you simply choose to believe in words written by man, translated dozens of times and pushed by a less-than-righteous social club.

Enjoy your box. I was once in it, believe me. I promise you, it's nicer on the outside. And there's no way for me to explain it to you. It's just a matter of you opening your heart beyond the fear of being right or wrong (you believe in the Bible as absolute truth because you are convinced it is the "right" thing to do, and you're afraid of the consequences of being wrong).

Start with Genesis. The knowledge of right and wrong is what displeases God. So you can keep clinging to being right, but it will only separate you further from the true God of the Universe.

reply to post by Akragon

Every person, every spirit, every animal on this planet and any other in existance....death is only physical....your soul is eternal

Hmmm, Christ rose Himself "bodily" from the dead. Anyone who understand basic Physics knows the soul is eternal. It has no mass therefore is unaffected by time.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Akragon

 

Every person, every spirit, every animal on this planet and any other in existance....death is only physical....your soul is eternal

Hmmm, Christ rose Himself "bodily" from the dead. Anyone who understand basic Physics knows the soul is eternal. It has no mass therefore is unaffected by time.

He did not become flesh again once he was dead....they saw his spirit, which is why he disapeared as fast as he appeared...

reply to post by whitl103


Apparently you didn't read this question I asked:

"Let me get this straight.. Are you implying God has the technology to create the universe out of nothing but doesn't have the technology to get a message to us revealing Himself??"

Is that your contention or not?

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Considering it was illegal and punishable for anyone to possess a bible in ancient times other then members of the church...

Sorry man, it was rewritten over and over....Not to mention the 80 some odd scriptures that were left out of the bible...

The Bible is reliable just based on manuscript evidence. The Jews took great care in copying the text down, if they messed up it was started over. The scribes took their jobs seriously.

The New Testament is the same way, it was copied with great care. We have manuscripts to compare and they are in agreement with each other.

Books were expensive in the Middle Ages, they was hand copied and made with vellum (sheep/goat skin.) Once the printing press became available along with paper Bibles became mass produced.

It was mostly in England that the Bible was trying to be banned from the common man. Martin Luther published a German translation in Germany where the Church didn't hold much power.

There was no separation from church in state in those days. The Pope was a political and religious leader. You're ignorant of history.

Scribes don't go around changing holy books to suit their whims. It would be blasphemy and they would have been put to death for it.

www.biblica.com...

Originally posted by Akragon

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Akragon

 

Every person, every spirit, every animal on this planet and any other in existance....death is only physical....your soul is eternal

Hmmm, Christ rose Himself "bodily" from the dead. Anyone who understand basic Physics knows the soul is eternal. It has no mass therefore is unaffected by time.

He did not become flesh again once he was dead....they saw his spirit, which is why he disapeared as fast as he appeared...

No, the apostles touched Him. Thomas touched His nail-pierced hands and put his hand into the hole in Christ's side. Interestingly enough after doing so he said:

"My Lord and my GOD."

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Similar to touching air....they put their hands through him....they didn't touch his flesh because there was no flesh to touch.....only spirit

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
Now now.. would Chriust want you to lie and bear false witness against someone? I never claimed the Word wasn't infallible. But you realize that means the originals right? You also hopefully realize the English language is an extremely lazy language and the Greek is ridiculously precise. In English we have 1 word for "love", the Greek has 5 different words that translate to English as "love". Heck in Greek any verb needs to meet 5 different conditions!!!

That's why they make Lexicons and Concordances.

Because Christ spoke so confusingly? I thought his truth was so simple a child could understand it. If that is true, tell me why we have multi-million dollar Universities dedicated to twisting his simple truth to the point that You NEED their education to understand what the hell they are talking about. Then when you find out you discover that it is the most hateful, bigotted, exclusionary organisation on earth. Then you ask yourself, how can this be the Church of Christ? How can this be the church of the man who died for the loving and forgiving God. Look at how much he still suffers. He has not yet risen in his flock. Others see him rising though.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

You know, you are correct about this. The majority of Christians I know are quite Christians. They humbly bear their burdens, and always have a smile for the burdens of their Brethren. They do not shout to the world "I'm a Christian!". They humbly teach Christs message through their actions. No one needs to ask them their faith. It does not matter because it is obviously one built on love.

Hmmmmm, I read that and can't help but say that it appears you are judging them by their "fruits". Exactly what Jesus said to do.

That is where you are wrong. I am not judging them at all. I am merely saying what kind of fruit they bear. It is up to YOU to decide for yourself if their fruit is worthy. I am sharing an observation.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Thank you again for bestowing this hidden knowledge on us. Your concealed meaning is much more enlightening than taking the phrase at face value.

It's certainly not "hidden" knowledge. Do you really think Jesus was talking about apples, grapes and strawberries, or do you admit the use of the term "fruits" is a metaphor??

I agree it is a metaphor, I never said it wasn't. Where we disagree is the depth of the meaning. You veil yours under many layers so you can find justification to pass judgement on others, mine is the simpler meaning that the people Christ ministered to at the time would understand. He was not trying to confuse anyone, but these were people who didn't think spiritually on their own accord. They had the Priests in the temple to do that. Christ was teaching Man that they did not need priests to find God. He is within all. We are all the Children of God. Understanding this opens the heart to loving each other on a more divine level. You will never get there if you keep judging.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Ah yes, Christ did not make it clear enough. Thank you again for adding even greater words than Christ himself. His plain words were not enough to understand.

Christ Himself said He spoke in parables and metaphors, and the gospel writers tell us this was done to fulfill prophecy. If you took Christ's words at face value you'd be looking for splinters in your own eyes and trying to push a camel through the eye of a needle.

Absolutely!!!

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Christ never claimed to have been the author of the Torah, the Divine Spirit within him was.

The gospel of John begins by telling us that Jesus is the Word of God made flesh. Jesus tells the Jews He is the Great I AM, the voice from the burning bush. He also says He existed long before Abraham. In Revelation He says He is the Alpha and Omega.

Now put yourself in Christ's shoes, and speak those words aloud to a crowd. Then, you will be doing as Christ did. Teach others to say that allowed, and you are doing Christ's work.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

That Divine spirit is in all of us.

Wrong, only those who are born again of the Spirit have the Holy Spirit residing in them, Jesus tells the same thing to Nicodemus. He tells the Pharisees that their father is the devil. And in Genesis God pronounces there will be emnity between the seed of the woman and the seed of the serpent.

You sound as though all you have read are sound bites to a very slanted view. So much said and so little understood.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

We have all contributed to the tale because it is a reflection of one tribe of man's journey through time and understanding with God. It is linear. As man became more understanding of God's true nature, his definition change from one of tyrant, to one of Supreme Benevolence. This culminated with Christ.

Hmmm, I don't recall reading where Abraham thought of God as a "tyrant". Nor Moses. Hmmm, can't find David saying this in the Psalms. Or Isaiah or Daniel saying this.

Perhaps you have not looked at it from the point of view of the Egyptians, Caanites, Sodom, Gamorah, and many other cities.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

You cannot judge anyone, period,

You're right, I can't judge anyone. Jesus did however tell us to judge a person's "fruit". To discern the wolves from the sheep for our protection from false doctrine. But the Word of God is the judge, I can either agree with the Word or reject it. It's the Word that makes the judgment.

You reject it when you judge. The WORD CHRIST did not judge anyone.

Period.

With Love,

Your Brother

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Similar to touching air....they put their hands through him....they didn't touch his flesh because there was no flesh to touch.....only spirit

John 20:24-29 (King James Version)

24But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came.

25The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the LORD. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.

26And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you.

27Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.

28And Thomas answered and said unto him, My LORD and my God.

29Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Similar to touching air....they put their hands through him....they didn't touch his flesh because there was no flesh to touch.....only spirit

Then why was His body not still in the grave? Especially when the Roman government and Jewish authorities went to extraordinary lengths to keep it there?

He rose bodily from the grave. His apostles all went to gruesome deaths as martyrs and none recanted that He did rise from the dead.

reply to post by ArchIlluminatus


Tell me in what time there was no seperation between church and state....even in biblical times church and state were one and the same....

History was written by the victorious, don't believe everything you read...

reply to post by ArchIlluminatus


that doesn't say they touched his flesh.....

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by ArchIlluminatus

 

that doesn't say they touched his flesh.....

Here it is in modern English so it will be to your reading level.

Jesus Appears to Thomas
24 Now Thomas (also known as Didymus[a]), one of the Twelve, was not with the disciples when Jesus came. 25 So the other disciples told him, “We have seen the Lord!”

But he said to them, “Unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe.”

26 A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!” 27 Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.”

28 Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”

29 Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”



Here is another translation aimed at the 5th grade reading level, hopefully this one you will understand.

24 One of the twelve disciples, Thomas (nicknamed the Twin),[a] was not with the others when Jesus came. 25 They told him, “We have seen the Lord!”

But he replied, “I won’t believe it unless I see the nail wounds in his hands, put my fingers into them, and place my hand into the wound in his side.”

26 Eight days later the disciples were together again, and this time Thomas was with them. The doors were locked; but suddenly, as before, Jesus was standing among them. “Peace be with you,” he said. 27 Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here, and look at my hands. Put your hand into the wound in my side. Don’t be faithless any longer. Believe!”

28 “My Lord and my God!” Thomas exclaimed.

29 Then Jesus told him, “You believe because you have seen me. Blessed are those who believe without seeing me.”

The Bible gives us commandments to protect us. For example, thou shalt not kill. If you kill your neighbor, he has friends that will kill you. Keeping the commandments keeps us healthy and civilized. Not keeping the commandments does not condemn us to hell. We are already condemned to hell. In case you haven't noticed, we all die. The wages of sin is death. We are all sinners to some degree, Instead of trying to point out sin in others, how about pointing out the good in others. If you recall, when Jesus was confronted with the crowd chasing the woman caught in adultery, he did not point out her sin. He did not condemn her, he entreated her to avoid the sin. He did that to help her live a safer, healthier, more civilized life.

All of us are condemned to death, and could all go to hell, if it weren't for the forgiveness of God.

God can forgive you after you die, not just now.

You and every other person on Earth will have a second chance to accept the payment for your sins after you are dead. It's in the Bible.

In the case of homosexuality, obviously there are health hazards involved. Same goes for adultery. Spreading venereal diseases affects your health, and the health of others. When the commandments were made, people didn't know about germs or viruses, they just knew they should follow what God said. Because they had faith, they lived cleaner lives.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Similar to touching air....they put their hands through him....they didn't touch his flesh because there was no flesh to touch.....only spirit

Then why was His body not still in the grave? Especially when the Roman government and Jewish authorities went to extraordinary lengths to keep it there?

He rose bodily from the grave. His apostles all went to gruesome deaths as martyrs and none recanted that He did rise from the dead.

his body was probably still there..... theres no way to say what actually happened aside from what we can read from the bible....you can't take this book as historical fact...

Alterations of this book could have been made to promote their God......just another example of "our God is better then your God"

Originally posted by ArchIlluminatus

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by ArchIlluminatus

 

that doesn't say they touched his flesh.....

Here it is in modern English so it will be to your reading level.

Jesus Appears to Thomas
24 Now Thomas (also known as Didymus[a]), one of the Twelve, was not with the disciples when Jesus came. 25 So the other disciples told him, “We have seen the Lord!”

But he said to them, “Unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe.”

26 A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!” 27 Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.”

28 Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”

29 Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

edit on 2-3-2011 by ArchIlluminatus because: (no reason given)

Ya thats great, can't you read your own typeing....it doesn't say they touched his flesh....

reply to post by Akragon



Here is another translation aimed at the 5th grade reading level, hopefully this one you will understand.

24 One of the twelve disciples, Thomas (nicknamed the Twin),[a] was not with the others when Jesus came. 25 They told him, “We have seen the Lord!”

But he replied, “I won’t believe it unless I see the nail wounds in his hands, put my fingers into them, and place my hand into the wound in his side.”

26 Eight days later the disciples were together again, and this time Thomas was with them. The doors were locked; but suddenly, as before, Jesus was standing among them. “Peace be with you,” he said. 27 Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here, and look at my hands. Put your hand into the wound in my side. Don’t be faithless any longer. Believe!”

28 “My Lord and my God!” Thomas exclaimed.

29 Then Jesus told him, “You believe because you have seen me. Blessed are those who believe without seeing me.”

reply to post by ArchIlluminatus


Do you feel like a big guy trying to insult my reading level?

Your bible quotes mean nothing to me, this book isn't historical fact.... and that IS a fact...