7000 kids for each vacancy (UK) this is exactly what I'm talking about.

To all of you who say there's no problem in the UK with foreign migrants taking up skilled jobs in the UK, here's my answer.

I have an experiment for you to conduct.

Take Northampton Town in England, take the population census here There are 211,000 kids ages from 0-24 in Northamptonshire, of which 84,000 are in the age looking for apprenticeships (15-24).

Go to the government apprenticeship scheme website here and search for all available vacancies in Northamptonshire. I see 11. I also searched the job centre plus, and found one more there.

That's 12 places in the last 3 months, for 84,000 kids. 84000/12 = 7000. That's 7000 kids for each vacancy.

You see the problem?

Now I understand not all 84,000 kids will be looking for an apprenticeship, though I think a good 50% of them will, and I understand that there are more variables such as kids having family in the business who can take them on specially. However, even if it were 100 kids to each apprenticeship vacancy that's far far too many, even at a ration of 1:100 means that 99% of kids who want an apprenticeship miss out. 99%.

GodForbid.

am afraid most of the people here in UK will resort in council houses and live on benefits... it seems for the last 10 years the easy way out is to get pregnant and claim a free house with free money. thats the reality of the majority of the younger ones here in the UK.

am a uni student, am lucky to had enrolled in education as the fees here are due to double to £6000 a year for tuition never mind the maintenance loans we are granted for living expenses food and resources, double the final debt of we are to pay when we leave, so i am fortunate to bypass this! so yeah am guessing further education will only be the ones who really consider it who can really afford it, as statistics show only 30-50% of post grads in europe are employed after. god help us.. but the country is so dumbed down nothing matters apart from drugs alot of sex and alcohol.. this is the system i live in here in the UK.

reply to post by wongy


You're right. The government however are "tackling benefit fraud" but that also scares me unless they take direct action to open up opportunities for people to actually get themselves a job too. You can't have one without the other.

thats true, but its a very weak effort to push the country forward. UK was once a powerful and admirable country in the past, people looked up to the UK to find jobs thus you have all the immigrants etc.. now it seems the UK hardly owns any major businesses and sold all if not most.
but back to the point i think they only restrict the benefits system because like you said theres a way round it before. have around 8 kids, your comfortably gaining around £30k or something ludacris like that!
the problem here is that there is nothing to look to, no major role models to inspire for tomorrow, only thing to look forward to is the weekend piss up with friends. fair does if thats how people like it, i just think its a brainwash, after emerging from this brainwash myself i ended up here to seek the truth.
the majority WILL settle for crappy jobs, yet they always moan about it, like most my friends do at home, i always ask, why dont you go to further education for a better the job? its always.. well i cant be bothered really.. *facepalm* sigh.. when you mention university to these guys its like ooh man all the boozing, nights out, parties the fit girls whatever. yes ive been there, i lost my first year of uni for it, big mistake, but i had the time of my life, it was an experience. now ive matured i want to seek things that do matter. very few people think like i do, willing to settle down for a # job with a # pay and the same boring life. others like myself go to higher education then end up in the same place as everyone eles, the impossible task TO FIND A BETTER JOB in this climate of economy! what is it worth seriously!
the UKs gone into a slumb with the better people migrating out this place for a better life. things have turned, what once made this place a great country has gone downhill with the decisions of our lame profiteering government raping all our tax money and seriously i dont understand or see where the money has gone besides in their back pocket and to furnish their posh houses.
when will a revelation start here.. never i suppose the nation is too brainwashed to even care. as long as they can afford the ciggys, the usual pint in the pub and material thats all there is.

I'm stuck on the dole atm, its frustrating in the extreme, its not even a case of I can't get the job I want.

There are about 200 applicants for every job especially low ranking jobs like mcdonalds or tesco. I'm not the only one either I know one guy with a degree sitting at home on the dole because theres nothing.

Most apprenticeships these days are scams were they train you in bottom rung jobs with no prospects of being rehired next year because they can just sign up another group of below minimum wage apprentices.

This isn't about foreigners taking our jobs (at least were I am). Its about not enough companies willing to take on young people (who they see as unreliable and lazy) combined with the fact that because our politicians and buisness leaders are corrupt we are living through the worst economic depression since the war.

Another issue is technological redundancy, 150 years ago about 70% of people worked on farms, 100 years ago about 60% worked in factories 50 years ago about 50% worked in offices. now office work is drying up because of technological advancements and we have no new field opening up to replace it.

youth unemployment is 20%, thats not going to change as those youth become adults 20% or close to is going to become the norm for unemployment. That will mean 1 in five people out of work permenantly.

I am worried for the future in so many ways...

I guess the aim for the UK is based on the US model, to have services jobs that support consumption. The more consumption the more service jobs there are to support it, etc. A self perpetuating cycle.

Was it Harold Wilson that said soon we will be become a nation of shop keepers. Well he was right in his premise but only by 50%, as now we are a nation of supermarket and call centre employees. as the big 4 have killed the highstreet, and the super malls the rest. So its not even like we have our own business' any more.

As for permenant unemployment, well there are always job, but not necessarily ones that the grads coming out of the Labour government social engineering experiment, want or indeed have been promised.

guess it time to realize that pride is worth less than food!!

Originally posted by JakiusFogg
As for permenant unemployment, well there are always job, but not necessarily ones that the grads coming out of the Labour government social engineering experiment, want or indeed have been promised.

Untrue, there aren't always jobs. Don't just take my word for it, ask around. Warehouses are FILLED with immigrants, almost all polish.

Many jobs have been lost to technology as has been said this includes factories, manufacturing, office jobs etc.

I have no problem with the immigrants themselves who're usually good people, but there's gotta be a time to admit that actually this isn't working and we're leaving the youth with nothing.

The odds are also stacked against the British.

To get a job you usually need a GCSE in English or the equivilant.

If you are an immigrant you don't even have to speak or understand english to get a job.

I know this as my eldest works in Human Resources and sees the trends.

It is out and out discrimination against the British but the British have NO human rights.

Do we not bleed if you cut us?

Sorry. Excuse second post.

reply to post by Elliot


Yes exactly, it does feel like discrimination indeed. It's a sad situation, one that has made life very difficult for me. I'd love to emigrate, but even that isn't a possibility because I would need to find training which would allow me to do so and would need to be able to earn the necessary funds to do so, so I feel stuck and helpless.

reply to post by GodForbid


I am not sure I follow the argument you have set out in your post that foreign migrants are making it harder for youth people to get apprenticeships. The issue you raise is the lack of modern apprenticeships and that is a product of social and economic engineering undertaken by past governments who have made it easy for British companies to offshore their manufacturing and services , without making them pay and ensure we continue to have a skilled workforce.

I do not doubt the maths that you have provided but where is the evidence that foreign migrants have reduced the number of modern apprenticeships. It’s lack of planning by Governments and greedy companies who are not prepared to invest in the UK.

reply to post by Freedom ERP


While I completely agree with what you said, my point is that it's simply cheaper to import skilled workers to take the jobs, rather than make apprenticeship schemes available for the British born youth to fill the skilled jobs.

If the skill base wasn't importable, things like apprenticeships would be the only way to get the skilled workers and therefore it would create more opportunities for British born Britains.

I'm a student. In a town full of students. And there's roughly 148,002 people living in my town.

People keep telling me to get a job - as I have no right to moan about my student income, nor should we be protesting ('silly middle class students, wanting more beer money') - despite me being working class and actually protesting for my little sister and cousins who may not be able to afford the triple costs of university.

Now 148,002 in our town, not including visitors and people living in the surrounding areas - and there's sod all jobs.

This means, after transport, food money, books and equipment and educational materials and necessities.... I have less to live off, than if i was unemployed.

And I can't find a job. And if I do get an interview... Either i'm over-qualified, or not got enough experience.

Very frustrating. Especially when clueless idiots attack me verbally for being a student. It's almost like some people don't want working class folk to study.

reply to post by mr-lizard


Yes I agree with your view point. It's difficult because some can't afford to even think about going to university. Others who can just make it with student loans or grants etc can't find a job to support living costs throughout their study.

with the compulsary 'nest' contributions soon to come into force, this will only add to
the reluctance of businesses to hire and employ people. this new pension scheme demands
a contribution from both the employer and employee. even before it has started, the admin
fees are already increasing. furthermore the monies collected will be used as asset to play
the markets with.
over the years, i have employed personell. now it's only me. i cannot afford to hire anyone
simply because i have to front up all the required monies even before i have a chance at
earning some. sending cheques off, which are cashed, yet, letters are recieved and unpleasant
conversations are had with certain bodies who insist another cheque is sent and cashed while they
look into the matter. a refusal to do this? knock on the door and the threat of insolvency
looms. public bodies do not seem to be living in the actual world sometimes. i feel they see everything
as text book and i get the impression they believe everyone who is self-employed
have full and continuous paid employment. the government bailed out the banks and in the process
doomed every struggling business with no equal assistance. they are left to face the dreaded liquidators
(which by the way is a growing sector!)who step in and fire-sale all assets. the creditors get what is left
after the liquidators have taken their slice. usually whats left is pennies in the pound.

i have two thoughts in my head at the moment regarding the situation. i feel because there
seems to be no let up in the ever increasing demands of more taxation through stealth,insurances
both indemnity and liability and a host of other requirements, employers will become more
reluctant to take people on. this is going to leave a situation that has a common denominator. risk.
the ever increasing demands on a business only adds to the risk of potentially employing
somebody. this business eventually suffers because of lack of capacity when opportunity
comes round. a common solution is to farm the work out to third parties who carry their own
'risk'. this area will be in growth when others are not simply because there is no-risk attached
to the main employer, only a wad of money to transfer according to agreement. given the increase
in time one has to wait for payment with major brands and employers extending their payment terms
further than ever,the risks for third parties increases. i have been in this situation where major
companies have delayed payment to me for projects carried out including payment to others where
the works have been passed off and nine months later after calls and letters in double figures,
a cheque drops through the door. i have been to the point of insolvency several times in the past
due to companies and individuals avoiding payment after work is certified sound. when i am called
on nowadays, the terms are rarely negotiable and it's mostly my terms. they can simply phone someone
else if they disagree.
so the first thought was based around risk and the mitigation of it. it seems there may be opportunities
in the self-employment sector through companies reluctant to take on staff because of the perpetual
increase in costs and risk. anyone wanting to progress in life should not rule out self employment as an option.
it does have it's benefits.

the numbers of young people denied opportunities at the moment is unnerving. with the education maintenance
allowance coming to an end, this will only worsen the state of play.
if the private sector is unwilling to take on potential employees, it may well have to be put into the hands
of the government. i see few incentives offered by the government and this will not do. programs must be
enabled to partner these kids with skilled workers in both the public sector and private. skills can and will
be lost if this situation continues. it may even come down to a modern-day national conscription in order to
satisfy this need. at the least these teen joe and janes need a fundamental grasp of the knowledge and
discipline of employment. at the very least they deserve the option of better choices.

my second thought was realising that opportunities are becoming few and far between and on a national level
a major partnering program needs to be established and hopefully enhanced by the recipients. there is so
much skill out there that will be lost, those in possession of these skills will eventually be able to
command their own conditions and remuneration.

in conclusion i would say to anyone who considers self-employment as an option, it is what you make it.
if things go pear shaped, you only have yourself to blame. however if you gave it a go at least you tried.

regards f

reply to post by GodForbid


If that is true, and I have no reason to doubt it. It shows that even my own information (as an expat) is out of date, in less than 6 years!!

it was the main stay, that if things got bad, you could always work in the warehouses, packing factories, laboring, sweeping, anything than a man of pride would do to earn a living, ANYTHING rather than sign on.

What else is left?

Is it time for us Brits, like so many others, to leave the island in search of work overseas?

maybe so.

All hail the failure of the great experiment.

reply to post by fakedirt


I fully agree. self employment, even if it only reaps meagre returns seems the only option left to many. However we also need to reclaim as a society a need and a want to support local business, and not big business! That in its self is a hard thing for people to grasp.

Many, IMO in the upcoming generation were lied to, that a need for university education for all is necessary ir not essential. I am the last of my generation where this was not so. I left school at 16, went into a company training scheme. by 21, when my friends were leaving Uni, I had qualification, not as grand as theirs, but had 5 years experience behind me. As the crack then were beginning to show in the system, many of them had little option but to go for similar level jobs I had done at 16-18. Some are still there. currently at 32 after being self employed for the last 6 years, I can imaging no other way.

It is not necessary for some if not many, to go to university. There is still a need for skilled tradesmen, which can and is gained through OJT. (on job training). Where will we be if people shun the trades, in favour of getting a degree to flip burgers at Mickey D's because the jobs currently are not there, or just biding time until the right job comes along.

I feel for those in that position now, but each of our destinies is in our own hands. And there is noone in this world that is going to look after you interests before their own.

Maybe I am wrong,

So i agree

Originally posted by JakiusFogg
reply to post by GodForbid

 

If that is true, and I have no reason to doubt it. It shows that even my own information (as an expat) is out of date, in less than 6 years!!

it was the main stay, that if things got bad, you could always work in the warehouses, packing factories, laboring, sweeping, anything than a man of pride would do to earn a living, ANYTHING rather than sign on.

What else is left?

Is it time for us Brits, like so many others, to leave the island in search of work overseas?

maybe so.

All hail the failure of the great experiment.

It is true and indeed one hell of a lot has changed in six years. Nowadays warehouse jobs are on the decline or taken by foreign workers, now I know that's probably somewhat area dependant but I can tell you it's true in my area (midlands) same goes for factories. Labouring jobs are usually taken by British workers, however that's one of the sectors hit hard by a faltering economy.

So yeah, the question is what is left? I don't think I want to know the answer.

I'd love to leave this island. It's not that simple though. To leave I'd need to have been trained and qualified in a skill that's on the skills list for the country I wanted to emigrate to. However with no apprenticeships to be found, getting an NVQ or equivalent is impossible. Not only that but I'd need to be able to raise enough funds, which without getting training / qualifications I am unable to raise.

It's not that simple.