RT news 9/11 truthers attend Treason in America conference in pennsylvania

varemia i have some respect for you, althought we dont agree on the evens that happened on that day but from the posts i have seen from you, you dont personally abusively attack ppl in the sick way badoldave does you just post your opinions and fair play to you but can i just ask you one question??

if you serioulsy believe the os in its entirety then why would you feel the need to come on these conspiracy sites??? it happened and it happened 10 years ago and your not curious about any thing so why come on here? i honestly just cant get my head around debunkers

does it help them sleep at night knowing they have maybe swayed a poor person who might be on then fench? somebody please tell me

reply to post by GoodOlDave

Sorry to burst your bubble, Herr Goebbels, but freedom of speech applies to everyone, not just to you conspiracy peddlers. The motto of ATS is to "Deny Ignorance" and this site knows right away that denying ignorance means to allow anyone to say whatever is on their mind. This is because free discussion quickly exposes the truth from the BS artists since it's always falsehoods, never the truth, that needs to fear critique.

Yes, freedom of speech and expression is for everyone but you do not have the (ATS rules) right to insult, lie, spin, twist, and peddle ignorance on these ATS boards, and that is what you have been doing.

The motto of ATS is to "Deny Ignorance" and this site knows right away that denying ignorance means to allow anyone to say whatever is on their mind.

But is does not give you the right to maliciously insults everyone who doesn’t agree with your pointless rants.

If your conspiracy claims are so fragile that you're seriously suggesting that they require outright censorship to keep them alive, then this is a de fact admission that your conspiracy stories are hogwash and are without merit.

You are so ignorant, the OS is a “proven hogwash” or are you going to call me a liar to?

This is because free discussion quickly exposes the truth from the BS artists since it's always falsehoods, never the truth, that needs to fear critique.

The fact is apparently some of you debunkers in defending the OS have demonstrated a great fear of the truth by attacking everyone that speaks out against the OS lies.
I am not talking about the people that you claim believe in aliens did 911 using laser weapons from Judy Woods dame fools conspiracy website, or all the planes were all holograms, or pod people under the airplane did 911, or hush-a-boom explosives were used by evil secretive invisible government agents who all believe in conspiracy theories created by tin foil hats sitting in mommies basement at the age of 50 years old trying to fool everyone that the OS is a lie. No, just the average Joe, who has done a little research on the 911 subject and has figured out that our government, answers to many 911 questions do not stand up to scrutiny, and lack any evidence, such as the NIST Report, 911 Commission Report. These lies have been exposed by experts in their own field of expertise not just on ATS but from around the world, and you know it.

This actually brings up a good question- does anyone know whether that Treason in America conference allowed free discussion of ideas or was it one long, "You'e going to think what we want you to think" tirade?

There has been enough evidence to support Treason in the Bush administration, this is not a conspiracy theory it is a fact.

Court Indicts Bush on High Treason Charge

WASHINGTON (AP) — George W. Bush, the 43rd President of the United States, was indicted Monday on charges of high treason. The charges, filed by Attorney General Russ Feingold late in the evening, allege that Mr. Bush, knowing full well that Iraq possessed no weapons of mass destruction, falsified information in order to pursue the disastrous Iraq War.

www.nytimes-se.com...

"The White House Has Played Cover-Up"–Former 9/11 Commission Member Max Cleland Blasts Bush

www.democracynow.org...

Cover-up and Propaganda: The 9/11 Commission Finishes Its Dirty Work

www.globalresearch.ca...

And you want everyone to embrace ignorance that there is no conspiracy in the Bush administration and 911.

Originally posted by kaya82
if you serioulsy believe the os in its entirety then why would you feel the need to come on these conspiracy sites??? it happened and it happened 10 years ago and your not curious about any thing so why come on here? i honestly just cant get my head around debunkers

does it help them sleep at night knowing they have maybe swayed a poor person who might be on then fench? somebody please tell me

It's a good question and I'll answer in complete honesty.

I come to only this conspiracy site because I am interested in many conspiracies. It has entertainment value as well as educational value. Surprisingly, ATS has kept me more up-to-date on current events than I ever have been before. I frequent the 9/11 forum because I am interested in why people would believe that the buildings didn't come down because of the planes.

And here is where I must correct you on my stance. I do not believe the OS in its entirety. I literally believe that the planes brought down the towers and that they were all real. Those are the details that I feel can be proven and are practically self-evident (however much many think otherwise). I have not come to a conclusion with regard to the government's involvement and the status of the hijacking of the planes. It is in-fact a very real possibility to me that something else took place (though if I was to set up a false flag, I would rather just allow the men planning their terrorism to get away with it by "opening" the conduits through which they could succeed).

I argue so much about the building collapse stuff because I honestly feel that is not something that needs to be focused on. In all the time I've been here, no one has been able to make me see any reasonable reason that the towers were brought down by anything other than the planes (and their resulting effects on the buildings). I am, of course, open to the possibility of something else, but it will require something more convincing than a lot of the rhetoric that I tend to see here. While pretty words may paint a nice picture, it's still just a work of art and not reality. [Believe it or not, I have a personal vendetta going on with regards to 9/11 videos, because I have been trying to find a single video that shows the base of the WTC just before and during collapse (though either would be great to be honest!), and the only two videos I could ever find that would have shown it have the few seconds before and during the initiation of collapse mysteriously cut out. If that's not done purposefully, then I am a tortoise.]

In all the time I've been here, no one has been able to make me see any reasonable reason that the towers were brought down by anything other than the planes (and their resulting effects on the buildings).

Since when is it anybody's responsibility to make you see things differently than the way you prefer to see them?

The simple reason why 9/11 Official Fairy Tale believers stick to the airplane/fire/collapse theory like flies stick to feces, is because if this hogwash story of the collapses is proven wrong, people will finally realize that it wasn't a group of 19 barefoot cavedwelling rag tag Top Gun Turbans who were responsible for the 9/11 scam.

This is where the debunkers make their insidious agenda obvious. They emphatically deny and never accept any evidence which may point towards 9/11 being a completely fabricated fable from A-Z. But then again, how much intelligence can you expect from a bunch of muppets who need a script to be told what to do and how to think?

reply to post by SphinxMontreal


Well, for one, you just broke the terms of use on the 9/11 forums. But I'm not emotional about this, so I'll ignore your blatant name-calling.

Also, your rhetoric about the hijackers being barefoot cavemen is just ridiculous. Every plane had at least one hijacker who had spent a lot of time on flight simulators and they were, in-fact, quite educated.


Edit: Alright, seriously, who would star that post of his? There was nothing constructive about it.

reply to post by Varemia
It's not 'blatant name calling' it's facts. You were given an opportunity to justify your position on this issue in order for us to better understand you. You failed miserably. You are exactly the type of person that I wish the mods would take hold of and shake some effin sense into. Your comments are stupid and irrelevant. Why are you here? I move that those in charge of this arena shun these rats. They bring nothing to the debate. Nothing.

reply to post by dillweed


But see, you have not specified any particular issues in your post. You just called me stupid and used a lot of rhetoric to sound like you have specific details in mind. In other words, it is your opinion that I am stupid, posting stupid comments, but you have not cited where I have been mistaken.

I assure, if I am making blatantly erroneous statements that contradict facts which I could better understand through your worldview, then please explain my errors to me. I am highly open-minded to new information and am willing to change my mind completely if you or anyone else can provide me with the proof that is not hidden under a pile of HEAVY rhetoric and blanket statements.

Well, for one, you just broke the terms of use on the 9/11 forums. But I'm not emotional about this, so I'll ignore your blatant name-calling.

If I have broken the terms of use on the 9/11 forums (you wanna slap the cuffs on me now?), why has my post NOT been deleted as of this writing? Congratulations on making yet another inaccurate claim.

Also, your rhetoric about the hijackers being barefoot cavemen is just ridiculous. Every plane had at least one hijacker who had spent a lot of time on flight simulators and they were, in-fact, quite educated.

Are you talking about the hijackers who were found to be alive after 9/11? Yep...everyone knows that all it takes is a "lot of time on flight simulators" and an "education" for a ragtag group of 19 diminutive guys to successfully attack the most powerful nation on earth and cause unprecedented devastation. Thanks a bunch for that one, but I've alrerady had more than my share of fairy tales from the Government/Media.

Alright, seriously, who would star that post of his? There was nothing constructive about it.

The fact that you're obsessed with stars, bells and whistles pretty much says it all.

Deleted; double post.

But see, you have not specified any particular issues in your post. You just called me stupid and used a lot of rhetoric to sound like you have specific details in mind. In other words, it is your opinion that I am stupid, posting stupid comments, but you have not cited where I have been mistaken.

Last time I checked, this site was about 9/11, not about you falsely portraying a victim of verbal abuse. Not to worry though; I am sure there are plenty of drama forums out there where you can continue your role playing and get accolades for your stellar thespian efforts.

Originally posted by SphinxMontreal
If I have broken the terms of use on the 9/11 forums (you wanna slap the cuffs on me now?), why has my post NOT been deleted as of this writing? Congratulations on making yet another inaccurate claim.

Well, it felt like you were name calling, and it attempted to illicit a negative response from me, so it seemed very much against the ToS. All you did was kind of soften it up by acting as if you didn't have a specific person in mind, when you were actually implying your words toward me and anyone who believes any part of the OS at all.

Are you talking about the hijackers who were found to be alive after 9/11? Yep...everyone knows that all it takes is a "lot of time on flight simulators" and an "education" for a ragtag group of 19 diminutive guys to successfully attack the most powerful nation on earth and cause unprecedented devastation. Thanks a bunch for that one, but I've alrerady had more than my share of fairy tales from the Government/Media.

I haven't seen any evidence that they were ever found alive aside from a single news story that found some guys with the same names or something. Did you know that there are like a few thousand people with my name? Newspapers are also notorious for making stuff up if it gets them readers. I thought ATS was fond of not believing the media, considering they are controlled by the powers that be.

Your rhetoric, once again, calling America the most "powerful nation on earth," does not have any actual value. America had practically become complacent in all the time it was not at war and feeling invulnerable. Mistakes are easy to make when everything seems casual. Now, everyone's ears are perked up and in emergency mode on a daily basis because 9/11 did happen.

The fact that you're obsessed with stars, bells and whistles pretty much says it all.

The star is someone's opinion that your post has worth. I didn't say anything about stars until I edited it a number of minutes after I initially posted. This is obvious. It simply annoyed me that a post which harbors only negative emotion and appeals to the "for America!" hatred that truthers often have for anyone who believes a single facet of the OS had gotten a star (now two). It just kind of shows what some people value on this forum. Rather than open discussion and debate, it is a valuing of division and practically fear of any opposing ideas.

The fact that people are obsessed with shutting up anyone who opposes their viewpoint shows that they fear what the viewpoint might bring to the thread. It's not about "purity" or "righteousness" or "patriotism." It's about being seen as right and indoctrinating as many people as possible through fact-bending rhetoric.

Originally posted by SphinxMontreal

But see, you have not specified any particular issues in your post. You just called me stupid and used a lot of rhetoric to sound like you have specific details in mind. In other words, it is your opinion that I am stupid, posting stupid comments, but you have not cited where I have been mistaken.

Last time I checked, this site was about 9/11, not about you falsely portraying a victim of verbal abuse. Not to worry though; I am sure there are plenty of drama forums out there where you can continue your role playing and get accolades for your stellar thespian efforts.

Yet, if you had focused on 9/11, none of this argument would have even started. Instead you really did focus on belittling anyone who believes a part of the OS and made that the idea of your entire post. It was a verbal attack on people, not a discussion of an issue related to 9/11.

I know for a fact that you are saying these things to illicit a response from me (and others, possibly), and that is not the point of this forum. You are trying to act like you are an angel who has done nothing wrong, but I'm not falling for it, ok?

Edit: Also, you kind of ignored the second part of that post, in which I said I was open to being corrected where I was wrong. The way you quoted me, it made it look like I was just defending myself and nothing more. I honestly want to know the truth, and honestly, you guys are not helping very much right now.


Edit2:

Originally posted by dillweed
Your comments are stupid and irrelevant. Why are you here? I move that those in charge of this arena shun these rats.

Honestly, if that's not a verbal attack, then I have no clue what is.

The dutch 9/11 case. US vs Osama

Originally posted by Varemia
reply to post by dillweed

 

The action of having a different view and opinion,

having a view and an opinion doesn't make you right. i guess.

Originally posted by psyop911

Originally posted by Varemia
reply to post by dillweed

 

The action of having a different view and opinion,

having a view and an opinion doesn't make you right. i guess.

I take it that you assume that I assume that I'm right? I make judgements based on what I feel makes the most sense to me. I am very open to being corrected and shown what I've done wrong and where I can learn the truth.

The problem I tend to run into is that instead, I get crucified and painted with rhetoric until the cows come home. The most convincing arguments people seem to be able to use always include the words "it's obvious" or "anyone can see" or "only an idiot wouldn't understand." That isn't a way to present information. That's a way to trick people into assuming that you are correct. You should only you those kinds of things for elementary school information that literally everyone knows, not for complex situations that freakin engineers are arguing about.

Originally posted by GoodOlDave
If someone is so outer space fringe zealous that they're going to cover literally every inch of their car with, "inside job" stickers, that's a red flag indicating the guy is a fanatic who doesn't care to ask questions or wants to know the truth. He will stick to his own personal views regardless of what the truth actually is with the same single minded hard core fanaticism of a drug addict clutching onto his heroin. He's not going to the conference to discuss anything. He's going there to here himself talk. You might as well try to discuss evolution with the Pope.

It would do the conspiracy movement well to steer clear of crackpots like this guy, lest you look bad by association.

It's almost like all those made in China American flag bumper stickers that sprouted up everywhere. I guess some folks just gotta believe.

reply to post by Varemia


I'm calling BS on the "completely silent" explosives. There's plenty of witness testimony as to sounds of explosions as well as sounds of explosions going off on video at the firefighter's for 911 truth website.

OK, I'm going to list a lot of the items, just off the top of my head, that I can think of RIGHT NOW, as to what is wrong with the official story.
1. Nobody knew about the attack ahead of time. This is important because, if they had known, then they would be partially responsible for letting the attack take place. However, I've read quite a bit about all the Israelis who were here, living very close to the alleged hijackers, and also those who were arrested in New York and deported by the FBI. Also, about the investigations by FBI agents which were shut down basically. Also, all the people who were warned not to fly, as well as the high trade volume on the airlines in question. The timeline of building insurance purchase and wording of the contract - suspicious and suggestive. Why did the authorities not follow the most basic line of reasoning? Did it ultimately lead back to the White House?
2. It was a coincidence that we had six military exercises ongoing on 9/11, as well as a simple lack of thought and planning that the air intercept system was taken offline in the months prior, for the first time in decades (I'd like to see a timeline of the operation of this system, but from what I can gather, it was very reliable and worked smoothly...up until 9/11). During 9/11, the exercises continued to run. The air traffic controllers could be excused for being slightly confused at first as to whether things were real-world or exercise. They could also be excused for being absolutely angry at getting NO ONE on the other end of the line to their phone calls requesting intercept of the allegedly hijacked aircraft. Why was the air defense system not working for the first time in decades for this one event?
3. It was nineteen hijackers who pulled this off, taking control of the aircraft and guiding them to their destinations. The hijackers were not on the passenger lists. Several versions of the passenger lists came out from the authorities. Now, the FBI denies FOIA requests for this information. In the follow-up to the attacks, the names of the hijackers were released very quickly. Pretty good for names that weren't even on the passenger list. Why did we know so quickly who exactly was responsible when we had no idea in the time running up to the event as to what would happen?
4. We know exactly which aircraft hit the towers. According to the official story, the black boxes in the towers were not recovered. Witnesses stated that they were. The serial numbers of equipment recovered from aircraft on the scene have not been released to the public. For all we know, these could have been modified aircraft with no one on board, completely computer controlled, never having been used until that day. Or, they could have been seriously tampered with to accomplish the control. In any case, it makes a lot more sense to me than the official version. If the official story says that the black boxes were never found when they had indeed been found, one would be forced to question why.
5. We want to find and kill/capture Bin Laden. To the contrary, Bush after promising to pursue the people responsible, stated that Bin Laden was not relevent. Bin Laden was never "found". For all we know, he could be a recording that software experts put together from a conglomerate of faces, with a voice actor or voice software. We'd be able to release recordings and send them to Al Jazeera for years if that was the case. In any event, all the Bin Ladens were flown out of the country, and we went to war in Iraq. Bet you didn't see that one coming.
6. The towers collapsed due to fire. I don't have to say anything else here. I saw the second tower coming down live, and controlled demolition is exactly what I was thinking then. The planes are irrelevent - you've never seen a skyscraper going down that way before, and you never will again (unless you have explosives in a building again).
7. The pentagon was hit by a passenger airliner. I suppose this is really irrelevent to the whole thing, but it's another odd aspect of the OS, when you have that many security cameras around the pentagon and all the film is seized and held from the public there's not much else left to think. Go ahead and submit your FOIA requests. Think you're going to get some film? Yeah, neither do I.
8. The passengers on the airliners called their relatives and had conversations with them. There's a company that keeps track of the phone calls and length of calls all around the US...an Israeli company, oddly enough. In any case, the calls were not long enough to say a word. I looked at the lists, and I remember a lot of calls listed which weren't even a second long. There was no phone call for the official story about that diplomats wife and the heros of that crashed into the field. I've got an idea, you take your cell phone on the next series of flights you make, and try to get reception. Try to have a conversation. That's all I have to say and I'll leave it at that.
9. Finally, the commision's report did a full investigation and satisfied the commissioners. How many commissioners have come out and said the report was a complete whitewash? When you have one of them basically telling us that Cheney purposely stood down the fighters, there's not much else to say here.

That's all for now.

reply to post by knowneedtoknow


What isn't growing in number over the internet. The numbers of people calling for help while grow when terrorist nukes go off. Or a biochemical attack. People will be going to these meetings wearing gas masks, and those numbers will be growing. People are getting suicidal the deeper into denial they fall.