The Problems with Ayn Rand

So to start off I would like to say that you should ignore the gameplay and just listen to the commentary.

I know this isnt really your thing but it's still philosophy.

Disclaimer: Bad Language

www.youtube.com...

So my question goes down to, how much do you agree with? How much do you not?

I would love to comment but your link is broken.

reply to post by drew1749


Your video doesn't work, but as I understand it Atlas Shrugged (is this what you're speaking?) gives a lot of hope to individuals that you can run your own lives... or what the corporations/private industry may reveal as your needs. I for one do not need government or private industry advising or telling me how to live my life.

This is the problem with our lives:

www.youtube.com...

I fixd it now. Also I dont claim to be the owner of the video. I just like the guy.

Ayn Rand's Atlas shrugged and the doctrine of objectivism are consistantly misinterpeted and misunderstood.
I for one see almost prophetic writings in Atlas shrugged. The current state of the US and the turmoil in the middle east, along with the economic crisis in Europe, seem to be taken straight from the book.

There cannot be human rights without idividual rights.

" I swear by my life and my love of it, that I will never live for the sake of another man nor ask another man to live for mine."
Such a simple forthright declaration and edict. One a free self assured rational man can follow without contradiction or deceit.

If you read the history of Ayn Rand - - and how she grew up - - it explains where she comes from in her mind of self-centeredness.

If she'd had a different childhood/adolescense - - - she would have a different perspective of life.

While I think you can learn something from different people's experiences - - - heralding Ayn Rand as anything but extreme self-centeredness - - - is ridiculous.

reply to post by Annee


this is exactly what I was talking about. The premis is not self centeredness, but rather self reliance. If I have taken the time and the effort to take care of myself, then I relieve anyone else of that duty, thereby allowing them to spend their time and effort to support themselves and those they feel inclined as free men to aid. The fact that we see to our needs first does not negate the concept of us helping others once our needs are met. Rather we refuse to look at it as making a sacrifice, or giving back ,but rather as a way of improving our own lives and enviroment. The reponsibility of who and what and by how much we provide that help is our's to decide,as it should by for all free men.
We do not allow that another man's need places a claim on us, nor does our need place claim upon another.

This all adds up to a rational, reasoned, uncontradictorary, premis to how a free man should live.

Originally posted by Phedreus
reply to post by Annee

 

this is exactly what I was talking about. The premise is not self centeredness, but rather self reliance.

I understand the difference.

Ayn Rand was abusive in her self-centgeredness - - as far as I'm concerned.

You do not need to treat people the way she did - - - to be self reliant and understand self reliance.

I read Atlas Shrugs - - - then like I often do - - - I began researching the author. I found Atlas Shrug disturbing. I get "self" - - - but there was something in the story that went too far.

While I do think Atlas Shrugged (and other works) are very interesting reading with much to be discussed therein, I always remember that "moderation" is key... Ayn Rand and her philosophy represents on end, the extreme end, of one spectrum. As with anything, there are both positives and negatives that can be gleaned from the message.

The problem with Ayn Rand, aside from her first name, is that her philsophy leads to the stratification of society along Hitlerian lines of domination and submission and social darwinism. People who subscribe to the philosophy of Satanism or, who are in a perpetual state of seething hatred towards the ideals of Christian thought, are her number one fans.

The only problem I can see is her characters are two-dimensional.

If "The Fountainhead" was reality and not a novel, Howard Roark would never have gotten a job after getting expelled from school in the first place. The cranky old genius he worked for would have been too broke to hire him. No sane architect would give up his career for a minor facade style point like Roark did, choosing instead to go work in a freaking quarry breaking rocks. That would have been the end of the book right there. He would have ended up washed up, hanging around in a bar and boring the local drunks with his long-winded architectural sermons. Plus, Dominique is one of the more creepy, bizzare, and unbelievable females in modern literature. You are better off reading the phone book, folks...Also, let's not forget Allen Greenspan was one of the hangers-on in the Ayn Rand social scene. Enough said.

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
The problem with Ayn Rand, aside from her first name, is that her philsophy leads to the stratification of society along Hitlerian lines of domination and submission and social darwinism. People who subscribe to the philosophy of Satanism or, who are in a perpetual state of seething hatred towards the ideals of Christian thought, are her number one fans.

I'm an Atheist - - I am not a fan or supporter of Ayn Rand.

Get Real. Not everything is about God or lack there of.

How annoying.

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
The problem with Ayn Rand, aside from her first name, is that her philsophy leads to the stratification of society along Hitlerian lines of domination and submission and social darwinism. People who subscribe to the philosophy of Satanism or, who are in a perpetual state of seething hatred towards the ideals of Christian thought, are her number one fans.

Well... This has nothing to do with Christian hate or any other religion and everything with the tendency of Christianity to control every aspect of peoples life.

Satanists live like they are their own god. You are responsible for yourself and your actions, posive as well as negative.

Darwinism... survival of the fittest. Luckily survival of the fittest does not mean the same as it did a century ago.

Hitlerian lines of domination and submission ? I'm confused... How is it compatible with being self reliant when you deny others to do the same ?

You know... I'm in control, When I smile and say hi to my neighbor every day, he's more willing to lend me a cup of sugar then when I give him a cranky look every day. I get my lawn snow free, and others will follow. When I don't nothing happens these days. ( sadly true ).
I don't mind your business and I expect you not to mind my business unless it is a request.

In all honesty... My experience is that people with a similar mindset ( Rand ) are honest about themselves and their actions where the most hypocritical people I've met were pretty much all die hard Christians. ( Not saying all Christians are hypocritical )

reply to post by silent thunder

Also, let's not forget Allen Greenspan was one of the hangers-on in the Ayn Rand social scene. Enough said.

Alan Greenspan was the Chairman of the Federal Reserve for crying out loud. If it were Atlas Shrugged he would be Wesley Mouch, who became the economic dictator in that novel.

reply to post by FreakyDeaky1


You do realize that Ayn Rand's ideals aren't about the state not telling you what to do, but about you acting in your own best interest, right? Individuals acting solely in their own best interest do not necessarily act in the best interest of society so society at large is often forced to alter the course of action of the individual.

Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux

Alan Greenspan was the Chairman of the Federal Reserve for crying out loud. If it were Atlas Shrugged he would be Wesley Mouch, who became the economic dictator in that novel.

lol. Actually I've never read her magnum opus. I do know she had a rather bemused attitude towered Greenspan, who she nicknamed "the undertaker" and once called "a social climber," so I dont know if she'd cast him as a mighty dictator...or is Mouch also myopic and bungling?

She was a pretty good writer, but as far as philosophy goes. Everybody's got there thing that there attracted to and read more then once because they think theres something there. Though for me Ayn Rand is not one of those people that made me read her stuff more then once, plus now a days I don't usually read any books that does not have dragons in them, or ninjas, or stuff blowing up for no reason, or were there is to much dialog were people just talk about boring stuff. Personally I think there is more philosophy in doctor sues books, not to say Ayn is not philosophical just that she is no were near the level as some other philosophers out there, both past and present. By the way are there actually any new philosophers out there now a days? Or is it all just recycled.

Check out some of these wise philosophical quotes from the good doctors books.

"Being crazy isn't enough."
— Dr. Seuss

"I have heard there are troubles of more than one kind. Some come from ahead and some come from behind. But I've bought a big bat. I'm all ready you see. Now my troubles are going to have troubles with me!"
— Dr. Seuss

"If things start happening, don't worry, don't stew, just go right along and you'll start happening too."
— Dr. Seuss

"Think left and think right and think low and think high. Oh, the thinks you can think up if only you try!"
— Dr. Seuss

"You can get help from teachers, but you are going to have to learn a lot by yourself, sitting alone in a room."
— Dr. Seuss

"I'm afraid that sometimes you'll play lonely games too. Games you can't win 'cause you'll play against you."
— Dr. Seuss

Or this question he posed in one of his books called. Horton Hears a Who. Since he didn't come out and write it I guess I will... "Horton hears a who, but who hears a Horton?"... You see thats some major philosophy and stuff, did anybody actually hear a Horton, I don't think so they were all to busy talking about themselves.


I could put some Ayn Rand quotes up to compare but ill just put one up, that bugs me in its ignorance.

Contradictions do not exist. Whenever you think you are facing a contradiction, check your premises. You will find that one of them is wrong.
Ayn Rand

Now you see, what kind of # is that. Off course contradictions exist, everything if you look at it long or deep enough, is at its core a contradiction, and Ayn Rand was a walking, talking, writing, contradiction. Ok not saying she sucks, just saying she ain't all that, like some people like to believe she is. I would say she is alright.

reply to post by silent thunder


Myopic and bungling would be a good description of both.

reply to post by galadofwarthethird

...Off course contradictions exist, everything if you look at it long or deep enough, is at its core a contradiction, and Ayn Rand was a walking, talking, writing, contradiction.

More proof:

Ayn Rand took government assistance while decrying others who did the same

...Ayn Rand was also a kleptoparasite, sneakily gobbling up taxpayer funds under an assumed name [note: it might have been her legal name] to pay for her medical treatments after she got lung cancer.

..."Doctors cost a lot more money than books earn and she could be totally wiped out" without the aid of these two government programs. Ayn took the bail out even though Ayn "despised government interference and felt that people should and could live independently... She didn't feel that an individual should take help."

But alas she did and said it was wrong for everyone else to do so.

I think Dr. Seuss rocks too. Love your quote:

"Think left and think right and think low and think high. Oh, the thinks you can think up if only you try!"