Obama: Wis. Bill Is 'Assault on Unions' (of course he thinks that)

It is an Assault by the GOP exclusively on the Middle and Lower class.
They have been talking this stuff behind closed doors for awhile and finally got up the nerve.
I really dont see the savings in the few millions the workers will get vs the vast billions and billions the Gop is keeping Corporate Joe Multimillionaire from paying.
I think this is a class War honestly.
The Haves taking every last stitch from the have nots.
Yeah I know Republicans its all the poors own fault and f them. Right.
You rich folks here in the US made your money off the Backs of the lower classes now you want it all.
Shame and may God(not GOP) have mercy on you all.

reply to post by VType


How is an attempt to save the States economy and stop the ever expanding budget and expenses hurting the middle and lower class?

Giving them jobs that couldn't be paid for and/or justified is the real crime. The Gov was elected on the premises he would go to the State Capitol and try to fix things.

He will be the first of many. When the smoke clears-he will be hailed as a hero.

And, the GOV's plan won't lay anyone off-but no, the unions won't even listen. Doom on them. They are the ones who are really hurting the people you noted-IMO.

reply to post by VType


You are wrong. The unions are the ones screwing over the workers. Here is one example out of thousands.

www.ohiohistorycentral.org...

Buckeye Steel Castings and the USWA Union. They were paying there employees up to $18-$20 an hour for alot of the older employees. They had given in to the demands of the union and had given their employees all the little perks. In 2002 a certain family member of mine drove to work to find doors padlocked shut, guard telling them to come back later. Where was the USWA? No one received any notice. They were due pay. Where was the USWA? A few of the employees were 6 months away from retirement. Not all the employees received their final pay. One month later it reopened as Columbus Steel Castings. They offered most of the employees a job but at only half the rate as before. Where was USWA?

Then again another in a different city:

Meridian Automotive workers . The plant shut down and filed bankruptcy.

www.pbgc.gov...

WASHINGTON-The Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation (PBGC) today announced it has assumed responsibility for two underfunded pension plans covering over 1,300 former employees and retirees of bankrupt Meridian Automotive Systems Inc., a manufacturer of automobile and truck parts based in Grand Rapids, Mich.

Under federal pension law, the maximum guaranteed pension at age 65 for participants in plans that terminate in 2009 is $54,000 per year.

These and other companies are buckling under the weight of all the perks demanded by the Unions. We are in a serious financial crisis.

And the PBGC is another bail out waiting to happen.

A: PBGC is a federal agency created by the Employee Retirement Income Security Act of 1974 (ERISA) to protect pension benefits in private-sector traditional pension plans known as defined benefit plans. If your plan ends (this is called "plan termination") without sufficient money to pay all benefits, PBGC's insurance program will pay you the benefit provided by your pension plan up to the limits set by law. (Most people receive the full benefit they had earned before the plan terminated.) Our financing comes from insurance premiums paid by companies whose plans we protect, from our investments, from the assets of pension plans that we take over as trustee, and from recoveries from the companies formerly responsible for the plans, but not from taxes. Your plan is insured even if your employer fails to pay the required premiums.

And just like the AIG Insurance what happens when more companies go belly up and the PBGC has to take on more pensions than they have money to pay out?

You're all imbeciles. Obama and the Democrats don't give a damn about Unions or workers rights. This is a charade, it's all part of the propoganda, a show for the public. The Democrats are funded and controlled by the same guys funding and controlling the Republicans. Big business and bankers. What they say goes. And they don't like Unions, believe me!

Unions are the biggest single Democratising force in the West, and the arch enemy of big business. If Politics was a Hollywood movie the Union workers would all be beard-wearing Commies with exagerated Eastern-European accents.

Publically the Dems might claim to be for Unions, and appear to oppose Anti-Union movements, or even outright say as much, but the truth to anyone with even the slightest of sense is entirely the opposite.

The people who claim Obama to be some sort of Pro-Union Socialist are brainwashed. You have the brainwashed Democrats, who believe he is, and believe it's a good thing. And you have the brainwashed Republicans who believe he is, and that it's a bad thing. Unfortunately, he's deceived both of you.

I mean, what next? Are we going to see a thread criticising Obama for being anti-war, because that's what he pretends his position is?

Children, what a politician says and what a politician does are two entirely different things. Obama loes the Bill. Rest assured.

Originally posted by MindSpin
So let me get some things straight.

For those of you who are against Unions...you want the following.

- Lower wages
- Longer hours
- Less benefits
- Unsafe working conditions

Remind me folks...do you love huge corporations? Do you love the Walmart model...which is very anti-union??? Because that is what we will have EVERYWHERE if Unions are done away with.



Nothing like shooting yourself in the foot....I'm amazed at how well propaganda and rhetoric works on some of you people...no wonder Fox News has such high ratings.

This is what the Corporate Government has done. They've villainized Unions, to the point people actually believe they're a bad thing.

The Ultra-Capitalists will talk about the Unions and workers holding corporations to ransom and driving business out of the country. What they fail to acknowledge is that infact it's the Corporations who are holding the country, America, to ransom. By pitting American workers up against workers in 3rd world countries and threatening to set up shop elsewhere.

They want everyone to compete for the bare minimum, while at the upper echelon of the pyramid people are sitting on millions of dollars, for doing nothing.

The hard working majority, we're the enemy. How dare we question slave labour. I honestly believe in future people opposed to Unions will be viewed in a similar light as those opposed to traditional slavery.

Originally posted by ohioriver
reply to post by VType

 

You are wrong. The unions are the ones screwing over the workers. Here is one example out of thousands.

www.ohiohistorycentral.org...

Buckeye Steel Castings and the USWA Union. They were paying there employees up to $18-$20 an hour for alot of the older employees. They had given in to the demands of the union and had given their employees all the little perks. In 2002 a certain family member of mine drove to work to find doors padlocked shut, guard telling them to come back later. Where was the USWA? No one received any notice. They were due pay. Where was the USWA? A few of the employees were 6 months away from retirement. Not all the employees received their final pay. One month later it reopened as Columbus Steel Castings. They offered most of the employees a job but at only half the rate as before. Where was USWA?

Then again another in a different city:

Meridian Automotive workers . The plant shut down and filed bankruptcy.

www.pbgc.gov...

WASHINGTON-The Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation (PBGC) today announced it has assumed responsibility for two underfunded pension plans covering over 1,300 former employees and retirees of bankrupt Meridian Automotive Systems Inc., a manufacturer of automobile and truck parts based in Grand Rapids, Mich.

Under federal pension law, the maximum guaranteed pension at age 65 for participants in plans that terminate in 2009 is $54,000 per year.

These and other companies are buckling under the weight of all the perks demanded by the Unions. We are in a serious financial crisis.

And the PBGC is another bail out waiting to happen.

A: PBGC is a federal agency created by the Employee Retirement Income Security Act of 1974 (ERISA) to protect pension benefits in private-sector traditional pension plans known as defined benefit plans. If your plan ends (this is called "plan termination") without sufficient money to pay all benefits, PBGC's insurance program will pay you the benefit provided by your pension plan up to the limits set by law. (Most people receive the full benefit they had earned before the plan terminated.) Our financing comes from insurance premiums paid by companies whose plans we protect, from our investments, from the assets of pension plans that we take over as trustee, and from recoveries from the companies formerly responsible for the plans, but not from taxes. Your plan is insured even if your employer fails to pay the required premiums.

And just like the AIG Insurance what happens when more companies go belly up and the PBGC has to take on more pensions than they have money to pay out?

They're not buckling at all. They want you to believe they're buckling and that the demands are unreasonable and excessive, it's simply not true.

Lets not be naive, this is an issue of corporate greed. With most these stories, if you actually look into them you learn a select few have been taking massive amounts of money and bankrupting themselves, at best. At worst, they're outright lying about being in the red. Workers aren't bleeding any businesses dry.

Again with businesses setting up shop elsewhere, that's greed. It's not that they can't turn over a profit with Unions, it's that the profit isn't as ridiculously high as they'd like. So they pit workers against each other. Rather than allowing them to get together and form Unions, and make gains.

It's really very simple.

Of course Obama thinks it's an assault on unions. That's because it is. The only opinion one can have is whether you agree that it's a good thing or not, and that is your decision.
Teachers MUST have good healthcare, and here is why. Teachers are exposed to sick kids almost everyday. If they don't have great healthcare, they will miss more school days, which in turn causes the school districts to pay substitute teachers. Teachers are paid so little already, I couldn't imagine how much they would be paid if they can't collectively bargain. This all goes to show that republicans are working for big business and don't care about we the people. I'm not q democrat, and I believe their in the back pockets of big business as well. It's just republicans are much more open about it and trick people to think they are right.

reply to post by ErEhWoN


RickyD

That just reinforces my point. When did the unions decide on expanding their mission of protecting the worker to include giving money took out of workers paychecks to political campaigns? How is that protecting working conditions at jobsites? There is alot of laws already on the books that protect workers today.

I don't know where you got this quote but I can assure you it's not me and is in conflict with my post here not sure how you got that mixed up but it is!

wrong thread

Originally posted by RickyD
reply to post by ErEhWoN

 

RickyD

That just reinforces my point. When did the unions decide on expanding their mission of protecting the worker to include giving money took out of workers paychecks to political campaigns? How is that protecting working conditions at jobsites? There is alot of laws already on the books that protect workers today.

I don't know where you got this quote but I can assure you it's not me and is in conflict with my post here not sure how you got that mixed up but it is!

Most these laws to protect Unions, while they do exist, are often ignored and broken.

Laws are no good unless they'd upheld. Unfortunately most people know they aren't.

reply to post by ohioriver


You really think that dental coverage and a 25-year retirement package is what bankrupts a multimillion dollar company, don't you?

See that part where the company declares bankruptcy, closes its doors, and re-opens them with a new name? That's a sure-fire sign of embezzlement there. Your union-busting heroes are the ones that created the laws that allow a company to do this. basically, the company cooks its own books, scooping money from its workers' paychecks. when it comes time to collect, the doors close. The company declares bankrupts, absolving itself of all debts - and then uses some of the money it embezzled to buy a new name - and thus a COMPLETELY CLEAN slate, legally, and re-opens. As a new company, it effectively has no unions, and all union contracts with the previous company are legally void.

End result, long-time employees take a hit, are unemployed for a few months, then get to come back to work the same job at much lower wages with the threat of termination if they try to organize. And the people responsible - the people in the company performing the embezzlement - are treated as perfect angels by the laws... because the laws are there specifically to protect them when they do this.

A union means "More undeserving benefits for less work." I believe a person should be compensated fairly for a job well done but has anyone here stopped to wonder why American made products (automobiles in particular) are so much more expensive and inferior in quality than the foriegn competition?

I worked with some 'union' guys after they lost their jobs due to their company closing down and it was ridiculous at how much they didn't know. These guys could barely read a blueprint and took forever to set-up a machine to perform an operation.

If anyone knows what 'indicating a vise in" is, then you'll know it only takes a few minutes maximum to do this. These 'union' guys wouldn't have it done in 30 minutes. INDICATING A VISE IN! Basic first grade stuff.

I felt sorry for these guys because they didn't have the skills to build any tooling yet they were catagorized as 'toolmakers' by their former employer. They weren't exposed to learning all the machines and tools needed to work independently on a project by their former employer. Sticking to their job description and not being able to learn jobs outside of their area hurt them more than it helped them. The union did this to them.

Would it make sense that their is a great imbalance in the US's workforce. even the world. I see it in my small insignificant workplace, a warehouse setting. So far the office is winning in strength 4-2 then there is the 3 drivers.

I understand business needs a large communication pool to gather customers, but can't you achieve that efficiency while still having a larger production workforce? You always see people flaunting the notion of a glamorous office type career that brings in the highest dollar. I think that workforce has outgrown the production it sprang up from. And the trend doesnt seem to be slowing down either. Im not saying we need to push our kids to to dig sewers, but teaching a good hard work ethic is becoming a thing of the past.


Unions sprang up from hardworking people getting tired of be mistreated. Looking at it now you have bosses of bosses of bosses. Paper paper and more paper. Creating somthing out of thin air while pulling more and more people out of production and into an unproductive office job.

What kind of model would this look like, what is its future going to look like when everybody is just working in a cubicle for no real reason?

That's it, there's no hope. I will never work another day of my life for this CRIMINAL country. Don't ask me how I plan on making a living-I choose not to incriminate myself on a public forum.
Good day!

reply to post by Intelearthling


That doesn't even make sense - how absurd. Their employer did that to them. Any decent employer will and should always engage in ongoing training throughout their term of employment - basic, basic stuff. What a ridiculous post.