ask a christian

reply to post by Wonders

I ask this because Paul, who seems to be quoted more often than Jesus amongst those who call themselves Christians, said this:

Because Jesus didn't teach Christian doctrine other than His 2 commandments, He revealed it to His apostles after He ascended mostly. The church wasn't even born until Pentecost. It was a "mystery" hidden from the OT prophets.

Jesus: "Here's how to be saved: believe in Me."
Paul: "Here's how to be saved: trust in Him."

And most of his other epistles when aren't apologetics or personal letters deal with how a Christian should live or act in certain situations so that we can grown in Christ, and grow up to spiritual maturity. Paul was filled with the same Spirit that raised Christ from the dead.

I haven't had time to sift through 7 pages of questions so if this has already been addressed, please link to it.

What is the best scriptural evidence to support the Trinity? Start with any scripture that clearly identifies the word trinity, triune, etc. If not, then please lay the groundwork from the New Testament since we all know the Jews don't believe in this concept of a 3 in 1 God. So the OT should obviously not be quoted in any evidence.

Originally posted by Wonders

Originally posted by stuncrazy
alright so i saw all these threads bashing people for bashing atheism. most of em saying that most people don't understand people that don't believe in God, but i actually find christians to be in the minority... let me emphasis real christians to be in the minority.

so considering i've come to believe that what most "christians" call christianity is not christianity at all i would like people to ask me what the beef is with the moral and virtuous beliefs that are what true christianity stands for.

for this discussion i ask that you only provide scriptural reference to the problem that you are having with what the Bible teaches. i will be more than glad to accept any hateful remarks and untasteful responses. the only thing i ask for is respect and honesty.

with that being said, let the games begin!

Now that this thread has died down I'd like to ask you a few questions regarding the teachings in the bible that crop up in my mind from time to time that I feel I am not completely ignorant upon but would like these verses to be addressed and taken into consideration by someone other than myself, in other words, I'll be asking, "I'm not the only one seeing this, am I?". I agree with you on that many who call themselves Christians are not. I do not consider myself a Christian because some of my beliefs conflict with theirs but most especially because I am a sinner, though I haven't given up and will never give up my belief in God's existance nor my will to learn of Him and all that He teaches. We "believers" can all agree that we believe that God exists, for even demons believe in His existance and tremble. We believe that we need the Messiah. There are things Christians disagree on and we know it's important to know and understand the truth. It seems that many, like myself, aren't clear on what it means to be saved and how to go about getting saved. I'll try not to overwhelm you with questions, I will be providing scriptural reference to what the bible teaches, and I'll expect an answer, hopefully a logical, sensible, scriptural answer.
Here is question number one: Do you believe that a legitimate follower of Jesus can be a "slave to God" AND a "slave to sin" simultaneously?
I ask this because Paul, who seems to be quoted more often than Jesus amongst those who call themselves Christians, said this:
Romans 1:1 This letter is from Paul, a slave of Christ Jesus, chosen by God to be an apostle and sent out to preach his Good News.
Seven chapters later, here is what Paul says:
Romans 7:14 So the trouble is not with the law, for it is spiritual and good. The trouble is with me, for I am all too human, a slave to sin.
If Paul was telling the truth in Romans 7:14, was he telling the truth in Romans 1:1?
I don't think so, what say you?

i think the romans 7:14 verse is showing the human side of Paul. He is filled with the spirit, but daily life is a constant battle not to sin. we are humans and temptations are always there. the options are always there. when the pure of heart like Paul witnesses and experiences this daily battle, its a huge bearing on their soul.

Matthew 6:34
Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient to the day is the evil thereof.

every day is a constant battle! when therefore, like Typical stated, Jesus said to believe in him, Paul said to trust in him.

Originally posted by DelayedChristmas

Originally posted by Wonders

Originally posted by stuncrazy
alright so i saw all these threads bashing people for bashing atheism. most of em saying that most people don't understand people that don't believe in God, but i actually find christians to be in the minority... let me emphasis real christians to be in the minority.

so considering i've come to believe that what most "christians" call christianity is not christianity at all i would like people to ask me what the beef is with the moral and virtuous beliefs that are what true christianity stands for.

for this discussion i ask that you only provide scriptural reference to the problem that you are having with what the Bible teaches. i will be more than glad to accept any hateful remarks and untasteful responses. the only thing i ask for is respect and honesty.

with that being said, let the games begin!

Now that this thread has died down I'd like to ask you a few questions regarding the teachings in the bible that crop up in my mind from time to time that I feel I am not completely ignorant upon but would like these verses to be addressed and taken into consideration by someone other than myself, in other words, I'll be asking, "I'm not the only one seeing this, am I?". I agree with you on that many who call themselves Christians are not. I do not consider myself a Christian because some of my beliefs conflict with theirs but most especially because I am a sinner, though I haven't given up and will never give up my belief in God's existance nor my will to learn of Him and all that He teaches. We "believers" can all agree that we believe that God exists, for even demons believe in His existance and tremble. We believe that we need the Messiah. There are things Christians disagree on and we know it's important to know and understand the truth. It seems that many, like myself, aren't clear on what it means to be saved and how to go about getting saved. I'll try not to overwhelm you with questions, I will be providing scriptural reference to what the bible teaches, and I'll expect an answer, hopefully a logical, sensible, scriptural answer.
Here is question number one: Do you believe that a legitimate follower of Jesus can be a "slave to God" AND a "slave to sin" simultaneously?
I ask this because Paul, who seems to be quoted more often than Jesus amongst those who call themselves Christians, said this:
Romans 1:1 This letter is from Paul, a slave of Christ Jesus, chosen by God to be an apostle and sent out to preach his Good News.
Seven chapters later, here is what Paul says:
Romans 7:14 So the trouble is not with the law, for it is spiritual and good. The trouble is with me, for I am all too human, a slave to sin.
If Paul was telling the truth in Romans 7:14, was he telling the truth in Romans 1:1?
I don't think so, what say you?

i think the romans 7:14 verse is showing the human side of Paul. He is filled with the spirit, but daily life is a constant battle not to sin. we are humans and temptations are always there. the options are always there. when the pure of heart like Paul witnesses and experiences this daily battle, its a huge bearing on their soul.

Matthew 6:34
Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient to the day is the evil thereof.

every day is a constant battle! when therefore, like Typical stated, Jesus said to believe in him, Paul said to trust in him.

Thank you for at least adressing my questions pertaining to Paul, though my question still has not been answered, please, a simple "yes' or "no" with scriptural reasoning to back it up. Thanks.
My question still stands.
Do you believe that a legitimate follower of Jesus can be a "slave to God" AND a "slave to sin" simultaneously?

"i think the romans 7:14 verse is showing the human side of Paul. He is filled with the spirit, but daily life is a constant battle not to sin. we are humans and temptations are always there. the options are always there. when the pure of heart like Paul witnesses and experiences this daily battle, its a huge bearing on their soul.

Matthew 6:34
Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient to the day is the evil thereof.

every day is a constant battle! when therefore, like Typical stated, Jesus said to believe in him, Paul said to trust in him."

Jesus in effect was also human, however I think there is an interesting link between many different faiths. Christianity teaches that Jesus is the path to salvation but I think you have to look deeper into the message and symbolism that is in the bible. Many people in the christian faith take the Bible as a literal translation, but fail to see the symbolism and the overall message Jesus taught to his followers. It is very similar to the teachings of Buddha, where ultimate salvation comes from personal spiritual advancement and enlightenment.

What Jesus conveyed was that salvation was a path through him, but ultimately through the glory of his father. Many atheists argue to the fact that Jesus could have been a fraud or a loony. They fail to see that the story and message at the core is one of love and faith and is still relevant especially in our modern society. The real problem is how this message is organized, and disseminated to the masses, many different sects have branched off from Christianity. Some sects are fanatical, extremists, or use organized religion as a form of control. Jesus wanted people to believe in his message, faith in the ultimate salvation through the glory of God.

The beauty of religion and creation was that God gave freewill, you may choose to do good or bad. Jesus taught that the way to salvation was through good deeds and that his father will ultimately grant salvation. I have a hard time believing that Jesus is actually God (which is usually taught in modern christianity). However I do believe that since God did create man, his essence dwells within each of our souls. It is up to each individual to accept the love of God and what Jesus wanted to convey was that each person had the opportunity to glorify God.

One of my favorite writings to read is the book of revelations where the theme of "Faithful and True" is expressed throughout a few sections.

19:11 I saw the heaven opened, and behold, a white horse, and he who sat on it is called Faithful and True.

22:6 He said to me, "These words are faithful and true. The Lord God of the spirits of the prophets sent his angel to show to his bondservants the things which must happen soon."

N/A (2005-06-01). The World English Bible (WEB): Revelation (Kindle Locations 531-533). Public Domain Books. Kindle Edition.

The word of God is Faithful and True, you can have both of these descriptions but neither can stand up on their own. An example is you may be faithful to something; (ill use the Nazi movement as an extreme example) going to rallies and displaying propaganda material etc. but not true to the movement, believing and knowing that it is inherently bad. You can be true to something or someone (wife or husband) you may love them deeply but still cheat when on a business trip or while your spouse is away. God is saying that he is both Faithful and True and that the spirit of prophecy is the ultimate salvation. Stay Faithful and True to yourself, to others and resist the temptation to deceive is the overall theme conveyed in the book of revelations, a theme that Jesus also conveyed to the apostles.

21:7 he who overcomes, I will give him these things. I will be his God, and he will be my son.

Overcome the temptation to lie, deceive, steal, kill etc. and God will grant salvation. It is easy to see that God ultimately asks each individual to stay Faithful and True to his teachings, you have the choice no one is forcing you to believe in God, not even God himself. You can choose to act on you're own impulses and manipulate others for you're own gain, the ultimate reward however according to scripture is not one dwelling in the kingdom of heaven.

In conclusion, stay Faithful and True to the message of God, which almost no one can argue is one of love, compassion and sharing among thy neighbors.

reply to post by dodgec24

What Jesus conveyed was that salvation was a path through him, but ultimately through the glory of his father.

No, He said His shed blood of the new covenant was for the remission of sins, and whoever believed on Him would be saved.

Alright, my question has been side stepped, I'll just get to the next one.
What does a lukewarm believer do and say?

reply to post by Wonders


I dunno. I think in Revelation they say "We are rich, and not in need of anything."

reply to post by NOTurTypical
I'm not impressed with your answer. Okay, I've got one for you. Do YOU believe that Jesus came to fulfill all righteousness so that you won't have to? OR, do you believe that it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness?