Is The Government Poisoning Us From Planes?

Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by dnvrliz

 

"Junk-science", "pseudo-science"

Ah yes, like stating the sun moves across the sky. Talk about JUNK science...

Obviously this topic is a grain of sand in your oyster shell. I have my opinion but since that's all it is, there is no need for me to restate it.

At the same time, don't expect to be taken seriously when you basically stated that the sun orbits the Earth and did so in a very arrogant manner while being 100% incorrect.

I find the chemtrail discussion an interesting one and can understand that those on both sides can be very passionate about their beliefs. If one is so passionate that they revert to your tactics it makes your position look suspect or at least one that requires further scrutiny.

Originally posted by dplum517
reply to post by ZombieJesus

 

Well there seems to be this misconception that all these Chemtrails around Big cities (even not near big cities) are normal because of all the flight traffic in and out of the commercial airport. When in reality none of those trails came from planes landing or taking off from these airports.
So people respond with explanations like... they are just planes that are on there way to another destination... well that doesn't really work that way...
To really understand, you will need to watch them make the chemtrails on a chemtrail day and see it happen in real time... then you will realize the extent of it a little more.

Exactly right. I grew up in LA in the 60's and am familiar with smog what normal Jet traffic looks like from the ground. In the seventies, it was Alaska and Long Island, NY, and for the last 30 years, Oregon were I live very near PDX Airport. It was only in the last 8 to 10 years that I noticed the marked difference in the appearance of contrails.

I have been remodeling my house for most of the last decade, and spent a lot of time outside, and I can corroborate the "following of the sun" with parallel lines or grids, and that this traffic isn't remotely following what one would consider a flight path. It depends on the direction of the wind, but this last year particularly when I would be up before dawn working on the house, you could see the bastards spraying on the horizon, and as the sun rises, they just work their way away from the rising sun until they've left a haze over the entire sky, very effectively blocking the sun. I imagine folks east and west of me experienced the same thing if they looked up once in a while.

I've read that out here in the Pacific Northwest most of the spraying is thanks to Evergreen Air, which is also responsible for the GoM spraying. That seems accurate, because ever since the GoM explosion, we've had MUCH lower chemtrail spraying occurring in Portland, and I can tell you that I even commented to my wife a day or so after the GoM rig exploded that all our chemtrail spraying stopped overnight, I mean like turning off the light, and that lasted for what seemed like 6 weeks this summer, providing some of the best skies I've seen in MANY years out here, prompting me to hope they were "done" (a guy can always hope).

Even now the spraying is much lower than years past, but it burns me to have people always poo-pooing the fact that they appear to be manipulating the weather, and then voila, we've got biblical storms popping all up all over the planet..."whoops, just lucky I guess, see it IS global warming".

Rubbish. When I add up the pieces, it's clear they've been fine tuning geo engineering for some time now, and to cover their tracks and make a ton of money while soaking the sheep into thinking their carbon footprints are to blame, they invented global warming.

I'm more and more astonished at how the power of suggestion will override the proof staring people right into their lying eyes.

reply to post by bozzchem


Don't play dumb, you know exactly what I meant!:

Ah yes, like stating the sun moves across the sky. Talk about JUNK science...

....in response to an ignorant post about "chem"-trails always being put right "in front of" the Sun, or something to that effect.

It was so ludicrous, needed to be simplified....and, don't know which planet you live on, but on Earth there is an illusion of apparent motion of the Sun through arcs in the sky....

reply to post by Yankee451


OH??

Jeeze.....ya know, reading on the Internet, and not fact-checking is getting to be quite the past time for "chem"=trail believers!!

Here:

I've read that out here in the Pacific Northwest most of the spraying is thanks to Evergreen Air, which is also responsible for the GoM spraying.

THAT little chestnut of a lie was started, oh....don't know how many years ago...and ALL because Evergreen Int'l has ONE...count 'em, ONE modified fire-fighting Boeing 747. Modified to drop, at varying rates, large amounts of liquids. Not "spraying" them out....dropping them. Right out the belly of the airplane.

Oh, so they have that ONE jet capable of that feat....and, guess what? They only have TEN others...that are all freighters. THAT is their core business. Freight.

HERE is the list of their fleet:

www.airfleets.net...

And, no ..... they didn't spray the GoM. That was the USAF!: www.nola.com...

Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by bozzchem

 

Don't play dumb, you know exactly what I meant!:

It was so ludicrous, needed to be simplified....and, don't know which planet you live on, but on Earth there is an illusion of apparent motion of the Sun through arcs in the sky....

edit on 4 February 2011 by weedwhacker because: (no reason given)

It's not up to me to determine your intention. It's up to you to articulate it. It is quite obvious that you are combative and those of us who are scientists prefer to read what is meant rather than trying to determine the intention of the author. It's even more difficult to accept when the author is obviously egocentric, inarticulate and just looking for confrontation.

This is now two posts I've wasted on you and will be my last.

Back to the topic of chemtrails. There are documented and de-classified instances where the government has used biologic experimentation on the citizenry. I don't see any reason that the government would change its ways since they have been quite effective. The concept of chemtrails is ideal for use as a dispersant since they can easily be argued as contrails thereby causing the precise type of arguments that are taking place on this thread.

reply to post by Yankee451


Get over yourself.

Everything you can read from any source is hearsay ultimately, isn't it? I wasn't referring to their 747, I was referring to their location in Oregon, sorry but I haven't been there, I just noticed some jets weren't clouding our skies like they had been for years, and recalled this article, which I admit I hope will throw you into fits of laughter. If this provides you with a distraction from my point, so be it, have fun.

theintelhub.com...

I didn't think it was any great big secret that Evergreen was a CIA company, so I don't know why you're getting all excited about naming them, unless you have something at stake behind making me believe I don't notice a change in air traffic contrails.

www.sourcewatch.org...

The point was that there was a noticeable change in the sky spraying after the GoM, and that if there were fleets of jets assigned to black ops geo engineering, it would make sense that they would be redirected to an allegedly unplanned spraying operation in the GoM.

Atmospheric conditions hadn't changed all that much from one day to the next, yet like turning off the light, ever since then we've had much less spraying in the Pacific NW. Folks in Seattle said the same, and I note that right now we're basking in pretty clear skies and very fine weather, as is usual during parts of February. This has been a very normal winter, weather wise, contrasting with our contemporaries in other parts of the country, who if you can believe the other posters, are experiencing heavy spraying.

I'd be a fool not to notice, and an idiot not to ask why.

reply to post by weedwhacker


Hi there weedwhacker, you done that research into "Evergreen Aviation" meterology section yet?

reply to post by Yankee451


You're right.

The "intelhub" IS hilarious. They are pathetically hilarious, actually.

The main photo, opening the "article"?

Know what an airplane 'graveyard' is? (Also called a 'boneyard'.). Many, many in the deserts, a lot in Arizona and California.

Some of the ones, in that photo, are in various states of storage. Others, sent to die....scavenged for whatever usable parts haven't yet "timed out", then scrapped.

Even in "storage", they are not "ready to fly"! All the precious, precious fluids have been drained, windows covered over (to protect from damage), etc....sometimes, they too have had parts removed...it's called "robbing" them...if they intend to fly once more, then the "robbed" parts are painstakingly noted in the maintenance records.




Here, you can ride the cockpit of an American MD-80's last flight, this time, in New Mexico:




Here....recycling big time:




I have flown some of those airplanes!!

reply to post by weedwhacker


I take from your clumsy and childish attempts at deflection you have a stake in this issue.

reply to post by Yankee451


"Deflection"??

"Stake"?? The only "stake" is the one through my heart, when I see such ignorance as "chem"-trails being spoon-fed to the gullible....by hucksters and snake-oil peddlers.

NO....no 'deflection', just additional background info. NO, Evergreen isn't a "CIA company"...that was "Air America", actually....and I see why the connection is made, as they acquired some of those assets. Don't think CIA is in that "business" anymore. (CIA and "chem"-trails?? Incredible stretch, in any case...).

Further, with only 11 airplanes?? DO you even understand anything about aviation, payloads, maximum capacities, etc?? DId you see my post about the volume, and weights....try to do the math, for a typical contrail size, and add it up....


I already linked the AirFleets data, here's Wiki:

en.wikipedia.org...

BTW...the "based in Oregon" thing?? At McMinnville!!! That is just a place for their offices....the Boeing 747 does NOT fly into McMinnville!! Runway is too short!! AND, the 747 WAY too BIG AND HEAVY!!

Dimensions: 5420 x 150 ft. / 1652 x 46 m
Surface: asphalt, in good condition
Weight bearing capacity: Single wheel: 40.0
Double wheel: 50.0
Double tandem: 80.0

Those weight capacities? Refer to type of landing gear, and number of wheels/tires per. (Double tandem) means four, two side-by-side, and the pairs in front of the other. With that arrangement, the maximum airplane weight allowed is 80,000 pounds. Even the double wheel, at 50,000? A Boeing 737 is too heavy, and it has that landing gear set-up.



www.airnav.com...

Last time I flew in there, many years ago....flying for commuter airline (long defunct). Small turboprops. Pretty city and area, though.



Does Evergreen get some government contracts? Yes...but, so did my passenger airline, as well as just about every other U.S. passenger airline with overseas operations and equipment. The military taps civilian air fleets for troop transports, on special charters, sometimes.


GoM 'corexit' spraying was conducted using Hercules C-130s. Evergreen doesn't even own those. So, I am afraid your "connection" to contrails changes, and the GoM oil disaster is pure imagination/coincidence.

reply to post by Heckren
]you believe what you want thats fine but when i see an unmanned rocket look alike flying over my house in Northeast New Jersey spraying out 2 streams of something that looks like smoke i know that chemtrails are real....i grabbed my binoculars quickly and took a look thinking OMG is this a terrorist attack...were being bombed...no it was just a rocket flying in circles over my house spraying out something....coincidence....i dont think so...contrail...i dont think so....WAKE UP!

reply to post by Pawel420nj


You mean you saw a twin-engine jet airliner? And you call it a "rocket"??

Know what a holding pattern is? Yes, occasionally, even at high altitudes, airplanes are made to hold, for various reasons. The Northeast U.S.? Very common, expecially. How was the weather? Affects traffic handling capacity, as well as late snow removal and any runway closures.

Originally posted by Heckren
Would you please tell me, how can you tell that CONDENSATION TRAILS - condensed water vapors from jet engine - contain chemicals that will remain their intended "mind control" or whatever structure after being burned, mixed with kerosene, and put high into atmosphere, where they are probably caught by winds and sent sever hundreds and thousand kilometers away, be a part of chemtrail conspiracy ?!

Again - its CONTRAILS

I can't believe how this theory can still be alive, after nothing that can hold it....

It's been refuted by everyone that knows something about fuel and planes...

Amazing, isn't it? A huge amount of people work for the major airlines and the military. Some of them know an astounding amount about aeronautics. But somehow massive refillable tanks containing mind-altering chemicals are regularly swapped out or refilled in airplanes without anyone seeing this done, or questioning what is taking place. -or- there is a hell of a lot of people all in on it, and each one of them are capable of keeping the secret to themselves.

Some days common sense takes a horrible beating.

reply to post by ararisq


Nice picture from Atlanta but they are ordinary contrails. When they hang around for a longer than usual time they are called "depleted contrails". Those in the picture look quite normal to me. Now. Why so many? Consider that Atlanta is the busiest airport in the country and there you are.

These are not chemtrails.

Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by Yankee451

 

"Deflection"??

"Stake"?? The only "stake" is the one through my heart, when I see such ignorance as "chem"-trails being spoon-fed to the gullible....by hucksters and snake-oil peddlers.

NO....no 'deflection', just additional background info. NO, Evergreen isn't a "CIA company"...that was "Air America", actually....and I see why the connection is made, as they acquired some of those assets. Don't think CIA is in that "business" anymore. (CIA and "chem"-trails?? Incredible stretch, in any case...).

Further, with only 11 airplanes?? DO you even understand anything about aviation, payloads, maximum capacities, etc?? DId you see my post about the volume, and weights....try to do the math, for a typical contrail size, and add it up....


I already linked the AirFleets data, here's Wiki:

en.wikipedia.org...

BTW...the "based in Oregon" thing?? At McMinnville!!! That is just a place for their offices....the Boeing 747 does NOT fly into McMinnville!! Runway is too short!! AND, the 747 WAY too BIG AND HEAVY!!

Dimensions: 5420 x 150 ft. / 1652 x 46 m
Surface: asphalt, in good condition
Weight bearing capacity: Single wheel: 40.0
Double wheel: 50.0
Double tandem: 80.0

Those weight capacities? Refer to type of landing gear, and number of wheels/tires per. (Double tandem) means four, two side-by-side, and the pairs in front of the other. With that arrangement, the maximum airplane weight allowed is 80,000 pounds. Even the double wheel, at 50,000? A Boeing 737 is too heavy, and it has that landing gear set-up.



www.airnav.com...

Last time I flew in there, many years ago....flying for commuter airline (long defunct). Small turboprops. Pretty city and area, though.



Does Evergreen get some government contracts? Yes...but, so did my passenger airline, as well as just about every other U.S. passenger airline with overseas operations and equipment. The military taps civilian air fleets for troop transports, on special charters, sometimes.


GoM 'corexit' spraying was conducted using Hercules C-130s. Evergreen doesn't even own those. So, I am afraid your "connection" to contrails changes, and the GoM oil disaster is pure imagination/coincidence.

edit on 4 February 2011 by weedwhacker because: (no reason given)

It is a deflection to continue discussing where the jets came from or their capabilities because my post was a first hand account of what I have seen; that I have noticed a marked difference in the visible nature of contrails as compared to my earlier years on this planet, and more recently, noticing the abrupt change in the frequency of criss-cross or parallel spray patterns (from a daily bombardment, to Zero) immediately after the GoM incident. I am sharing my experiences with this forum, I was not referring to that article as proof of Evergreen's rumored involvement, or as proof of chemtrails, but only so say that that is where I had heard the rumor, and that having heard that, it would make sense that they would be pulled away from this area to assist with the GoM, if it isn't Evergreen, I couldn't care less.

The object of my involvement here is not to be able to prove myself right, but to collaborate with other folks from around the world who, like me would like an explanation for the chemtrail phenomenon. What I say could be relevant to that discussion.

All your sputtering about which jets were supplied by whom are DEFLECTIONS to the subject at hand because Black Ops would hardly advertise their real numbers anyway, making your "proof" meaningless.

Where the planes are based, who owns them and what their motivations are are irrelevant to my statements, which are first-hand, eyewitness accounts of jet activity in the Portland area based on decades of living here and around the country before this phenomenon was ever seen. Whether you want to believe me or not matters very little to me, but your attempts to diminish my statements with deflective tactics are transparent and annoying.

1. Yep, Evergreen DID NOT spray in the Gulf of Mexico..sorry, but you are totally wrong and spreading disinfo. The planes that were used were some C-130s, DC-4s and DC-3s. Older aircraft that do not even fly at contrailing heights anyways, and not owned by Evergreen
2. They have 1 modified 747 for firefighting.
3. Evergreen is not a CIA front company. At one time in their history back in the 60s, that could have been true.
4. Pinal Airpark in Marana AZ is a storage/scrapyard for airplanes. A lot of old planes to go there to die. The idea that its some secret chemtrail base is utterly silly. You would think someone would notice all these dozens if not hundreds of secret airplanes flying from there.

reply to post by firepilot


You guys need to get your own writers.

Originally posted by Yankee451
reply to post by firepilot

 

You guys need to get your own writers.

Fine, I write for myself. Care to refute anything that I wrote.

reply to post by ZombieJesus

The planes I've seen have some very strange "holding" patterns. Straight up from the horizon over the sun rising then back, crossing each other, turning around, crossing each other again, sometime changing direction to get more coverage. Usually it's three or four of them and a time, flying back and forth for 4-6 hours. Atlanta's a busy airport but not that busy. If pilots and passengers were waiting 6 hours to land, they'd be bitching for sure.

I see weedwhacker entirely ignored my suggestion that he make a mega-chemtrail-debunkiing thread and then link us all there from every chemtrail thread on the board. That would save him and firepilot a lot of typing and the world a lot of trees :up. Also it would stop the derailing and cluttering of every thread with the same old same old.

reply to post by firepilot


Read my post to the other straw man artist.