Why would Israel sell arms to Iran?

Originally posted by FarArcher

But back in the day, we were fighting communists and Sandanista in South America. The problem was the standard problem - our Congress was a group of candiasses - and wouldn't sufficiently fund the fight against the communists there.

You brought it up.

The fight against the labeled "communists" and the Sandanistas was not a legal one, that is why funding could not be done through congress and legal means. Thus, the whole Iran/Contra scandal.

The Contra part is the arming and funding of "counter-revolutionaries" in Nicaragua, they have this title because they were against the will of the common citizen. The popular Sandanista movement was conveniently labeled as "communists" simply because they believed that the resources of the country should benefit its citizens and not external private interests.

If you study history, it is a recurring theme.

If there is anything specific you have trouble understanding feel free to ask. This website is dedicated to discussion, so, discuss away.

the Billmeister

reply to post by Billmeister

Now that response is logical and reasonable!

I have a real problem, a personal one, in that I'm of a mind that half the crap termed "legal" by Congress is total BS, and that sometimes right is right, whether Congress is in tune or not.

Back to the thread, there are ways to do things, and then there are ways. And Israel understands that better than most. It wasn't Israel that did so many things they were assigned responsibility for - it was that they were the front who merely brokered the deals.

Originally posted by FarArcher
reply to post by Billmeister

 

Now that response is logical and reasonable!

I have a real problem, a personal one, in that I'm of a mind that half the crap termed "legal" by Congress is total BS, and that sometimes right is right, whether Congress is in tune or not.

Back to the thread, there are ways to do things, and then there are ways. And Israel understands that better than most. It wasn't Israel that did so many things they were assigned responsibility for - it was that they were the front who merely brokered the deals.

Sorry, that annoying thing called "real-life" interrupted our discussion!

I would tend to think that this is why the founding fathers insisted on the power of congress, otherwise, the "right is right" decision is made by very few. And remember, in the U.S.A. as here in Canada, we do not elect our heads of state, we only have a say as to our local representative, and subsequently, the party to which they belong may have an influence on who that head of state will be.

This also brings us to the other interesting aspect of world diplomacy/politics that was brought to light with the Iran/Contra scandal. In order to sidestep these constitutional safeguards, international intelligence agencies rely on the illegal drug trade to finance their activities.

Whatever opinion one holds with this, the consequences must be lived with, like the mujahideen being relabeled al-qaeda.

the Billmeister

in the book "By way of Deception" By Victor Ostrovsky, he talks about how Israel was selling arms to middle east countries like Iran and Iraq, but when America started to sell weapons to them, the AIPAC lobby said it was horrible and it would be an endanger to Israel, but the real reason they did it was because they didn't want Americans to get a cut of the sales. As the book states in its title "By way of Deception"

Originally posted by filosophia
in the book "By way of Deception" By Victor Ostrovsky, he talks about how Israel was selling arms to middle east countries like Iran and Iraq, but when America started to sell weapons to them, the AIPAC lobby said it was horrible and it would be an endanger to Israel, but the real reason they did it was because they didn't want Americans to get a cut of the sales. As the book states in its title "By way of Deception"

Noted, and I will be going to my library to check it out. (I am due for a new book- thanks)

I am on the fence about this one.

On the one hand, I would like to think that honest and open diplomacy could be used to arrive at just and reasonable solutions to international disputes.

On the other hand, the elected leaders are supposed defend their nations best interest. (yes, I know that this could be a thread on its own!) And, by this thinking, their responsibility is to use whatever means necessary to achieve it.

As you validly point out, private and/or financial interests often blur the picture.

In a democracy, however, I think we should at least know what our leader's mindset is. If they would be honest and say "Screw the Geneva convention, if elected, I will do everything in my power to repay those who have financed my party, if in doing so a few countries get bombed, well so be it! Oh ya, and I will make sure the gallon of gas stays affordable for you!" well, at least we would know what to expect.

As I stated before, whatever way you lean, you must live with the consequences.

the Billmeister

My guess is they served as a proxy for the Iran-contra clique in Washington.

Originally posted by Cassius666
My guess is they served as a proxy for the Iran-contra clique in Washington.

Yes, on the surface, that is what I thought as well, until I found this:
link to information

As I state on this earlier post, I should have done that most basic internet search before starting the thread, and I am not proud of having neglected to, but it was nice to see that the combination of input from ATS posters led to the correct assessment.

the Billmeister

The answer is very simple...

Problems that WE, the regular joe/jane, see are not the real problems that happen in the world.

TPTB profit from fear, war, and destruction but "need" YOUR approval to do so... What better way than to tell you one thing and do another?

Israel sells/sold weapons to Iran. Now they "hate each other"... HELLO??? PROBLEM, REACTION, SOLUTION ANYONE?????

Doesn't it sound eerily like the CIA funding Osama Bin Laden and now they are "after him"? or Maybe the funding and sale of weapons to Iraq and now look at what happened...

It's all a game. And we are the pawns...

Magnum

Israel will sell Hezbollah a truckload of ready made suicide vests, a ready to go nuclear device and blueprints to a store if they thought that they could make a tremendous amount of money on the deal. It's simple capitalism.

If you think that they are no longer buying and selling from one another you have another thing coming.

I think you should look into this isue with names like Johnathan Pollard and Shimon Peres and Casper Weiberger. Not because they are all Jewish. In fact, the only one amongst them who actually had the concerns of Israel at heart was Johnathan Pollard. He passed on sensitive information about the whole Iran contra deal to TPTB in Israel and his understanding of the situation. The likes of Shimon Peres saw a blackmail/bargaining chip and wanted their share of the deal.
It's a long, covoluted story that involved a concerned Jew with dual citizenship pissing off the US and being # on by people in high places of his nationality (Israel). Consequently, he will NEVER be released from prison.

Originally posted by Lucius Driftwood
I think you should look into this isue with names like Johnathan Pollard and Shimon Peres and Casper Weiberger. Not because they are all Jewish. In fact, the only one amongst them who actually had the concerns of Israel at heart was Johnathan Pollard. He passed on sensitive information about the whole Iran contra deal to TPTB in Israel and his understanding of the situation. The likes of Shimon Peres saw a blackmail/bargaining chip and wanted their share of the deal.
It's a long, covoluted story that involved a concerned Jew with dual citizenship pissing off the US and being # on by people in high places of his nationality (Israel). Consequently, he will NEVER be released from prison.

Thanks for the information, it is new to me.

This has just the type of angle that appeals to those of us here on ATS... espionage, collusion between different intelligence services, and possible treason.

Here is the link to the Wikipedia page on mr. Pollard, it reads like a hollywood scenario.
Jonathan Pollard

the Billmeister