Questioning Oneness

reply to post by NewAgeMan


Hi New!

I enjoy our dialogues.

Yes, we are supposed to solve something we cannot - mean or what?

Thoughts?

reply to post by catwhoknowsplusone


Thoughts?

Ok, the one is two in one for the sake of love, sharing, and mutuality. And if there is one thing imbedded right into the very fabric of reality and existence, it's fairness.

The solution is in the recognition and continual remembrance that we all share the same ground of being, the same oneness, the same source, and while we cannot understand "The One" in fullness, we can live the same love which gave rise to creation, by loving as we are loved, and accepting the good with the bad, since the sun shines and the rains fall on the good and the bad alike.

Duality is our delusion, and separation the illusion. The solution is in the recognition and awareness of the truth, that all is one, and the one is love.

As more and more of us become that, we begin to dissolve the hatred of those who despise, but to despise the one for being two in one, so that love gives rise to creation, that's absurd, imho.

We therefore must be responsible, we must be at cause, me, and you, and all who read this stuff. No more finger pointing.

Also, when we look deeply into our own heart of hearts, is hatred and a desire to kill there as it's "nature"? I don't think so.

I don't think of the problem of apparent separation as being an unfair problem placed on us by God, and if it were, it would also carry embedded within itself it's own solution.

I think of it as being unnatural, a sickness, a faulty way of thinking and being, nothing more.

At its best it's a challenged posed to us, by the neccessity of love to be two in one, and not just one without any differentiation.

And if it is a problem, then it's as much God's as it is ours, and therefore the same love bends our way in sympathy and compassion and understanding - imagine being one in eternity until you ask the question "who am I?" after which everything breaks loose and one is splintered, so that as more than one, the one can know itself as itself (himself or whoself) while sharing out of the divine nature and impulse of love. To then blame God for this kind of set up, I don't know, that makes me sad, because I'm glad to be here myself, and I'm glad you're there, and that there is something and not nothing, more than just one, for the sake of love. It cannot be any other way as far as I can tell.

And that's what I think about that (said like Forrest Gump).

Just one more thing...

We are, in truth, perfect whole and complete, that is our true nature.

Fear and loathing and hatred, is unnatural, it's not who and what we really are.

"Therefore be ye perfect even as your father in heaven is perfect (whole, one)."

Btw, I always am teaching myself as much as anyone when I offer these things or allow them to be communicated through me, through the real me, as much as a reminder to myself as a "teaching" for anyone else. lol

Perhaps a kind of compromise, for example, we can all be the same being if we combined our collective consciousness, however we are also separate individuals, and we are not the same individual, but, we can all perceive the world as if we were the same individual.

Great replies and conversations everyone. I'm still piecing together my own understandings, so I have not much to add to the thread, other than as an observer.

I often see the concept that all is one and separation is an illusion... why the illusion?
I hear, for Creator/All/One to truly know infinite infinity. Only way to know what it's like to be a thing is to become a thing. And to truly know the being of a thing, a sovereign consciousness and separation must be enforced, thus the illusion of separation.

If this line of thinking and concept is true, is Creator/All/One lost? Becoming sentient life, grains of dirt, gaseous elements in the form of stars, and photons flying through space.... how can Creator/All/One ever realize wholeness again? Is separation the All, rather than an illusion?

From a different understanding, if the world is a mirror of one's self, does this concept apply only to human beings? Trees are sentient, they eat, drink, breathe, grow, and follow the path of the sun. Is the world a mirror of a tree, tiger, cloud, etc.?

Just thinking. Peace.

There is a concept that I kind of appreciate that a guy named Arthur Koestler features in a book called "The Ghost in the Machine", and when I think of Oneness, this term - Holon - comes to mind.

A holon is a unit of identified existence. It is identified and unique, but it is not necessarily indivisible. In fact, a holon can be part of a larger holon or can be the result of many holons that have been gathered together to create the holon whole that it is. An example that I generally use is a baseball team. A baseball team is a holon, in that it is an identified whole (Boston Red Sox), even as it is a collection of holons (the players) and part of the collection that constitutes a larger holon (The Red Sox Organization). That largest holon is part of an even bigger holon (Major League Baseball), which is part of an even larger holon (American Professional Sports), which is part of Corporate America, which is part of the American Society, which is part of the Global Society of Planet Earth, which is .....well, you know what I mean. The progression ends up including all things as part of the ultimate thing.

If you apply the holon principle, then yes, we can all be considered to be One when the largest holon possible is presented. Other than that, forget it. Identity is what determines the existential state. If it cannot be identified as being an isolated whole - relative to all other wholes that share immediate proximity with it - then it cannot be said to exist. This is just the way it is.

reply to post by Sahabi


Sahabi: Glad to see you are still contemplating! You have brought up a very difficult question, one that has perplexed humans for the entire recorded history of our species. In fact, I would say that only an enlightened or truly wise person can fully grasp this concept/truth of oneness. Understand, there are people who spend much of their life practicing different paths and disciplining themselves in order to understand this and still they do not, so do not feel bad or overwhelmed about this question.

I recommend you study up on the Buddha's, insofar as Sri Ramana Maharshi's, teachings of the 'self' if you are seriously interested in finding the answer to this question.

PS. The idea of separation being an illusion may not be as it seems to some. Separation is an illusion not because there is no difference between your body and the oil, surely there is, but rather because neither exists independently on there own. Look up "interdependence" on this Link to read more on this. Also take a look at this; Pratityamutpada

Hope that helped.


ETA: NorEaster, nice example!

It seems the separation is yielded by perspective.

This one never had much of an issue applying the theory of "oneness" to my own body. Simply a larger system made up of separate, but dependent systems. Now, the true realization (or actualization) of that was a different story, and was the lesson i learned from the "arm" allegory that i seem to parrot so often. In that, it was proposed that thinking about moving ones arm does not actually result in arm movement. To move the arm, one must actually move the arm, but it uses the synapses and neurons all the same.

It is interesting to look at perspective from different systems as well. Whether that is through simply discussion with similarly sized systems, or in contemplation of much larger and much smaller systems. Even in our perspective, if we were to view the world from the size of a galaxy, the separations give way. Even the separation between the planets in our solar system fades away into the galactic system. One may not even see the small planet on which we reside, much less the separation between individual human systems. The same seems to be applicable towards systems much smaller than our own, at say, the atomic structure. It may be said that such things are irrelevant as they are not "conscious" like we "special beings" are, but for this one, that came from a position of distinct arrogance and ignorance.

It also seems to be that the idea of permanent death gives more substantiality to the idea of great violence, plagues, etc. If one sees death as an illusion, of sorts, such things do not have the same "dire" consequences. when viewed from our limited perspective, galaxies colliding are a vastly beautiful thing, but they carry more "violence and death" than anyone in this world has ever known, or even be able to conceptualize. However, it is also through this process that a planet will form, through great unimaginable "violence," that is capable and stable enough to carry smaller individual systems of life. Death as a negative, fearful topic will only see the destruction that lays waste to the involved systems. In a different perspective, it can be viewed that to yield life, on the basis that we limited systems know it, the destruction facilitates the environments and stability that are necessary for such things to happen. It also appears that once they carry directly into our own perspective, these things seem to start to carry much more weight to ones perspective. A fear-based system will likely not be able to look beyond the perspective presented as such, but this one has found that the idea of free will applies to this scenario.

reply to post by NewAgeMan

very well said, i see it same way..

About universe becoming ONE again, thats next BIG BANG!!
if we take that its "looped", and i think it must be, becouse otherwise, it wouldnt make sense to me
its sort of multidimensional field thats vibrating in amplitudes.. becoming one, from time to time for a moment..
thats my vision,

but i have troubles to incorporate time in there.. becouse if everything is everytime everywhere (thats obvious ).. why the hell we bother with time.. whats behind it?

reply to post by ClevererRunbeening


There is no time except as measured in terms of progress to increasing perfection, whereby what is fruitful or formative, is stored up, and what isn't bundled up and thrown away, but this process is always occuring through the eternally unfolding discontinuous moment (forever rebooting in eternity ie: always fresh and new).

I think you are right to assume or intuit what's called an "eternal recurrence", to which I would add the word "evolutionary" as in an evolutionary eternal recurrence.

Check this out

"The God Theory" by Bernard Haisch
www.amazon.com...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1249274834&sr=8-1

Haisch is an astrophysicist whose professional positions include Staff Scientist at the Lockheed Martin Solar and Astrophysics Laboratory, Deputy Director for the Center for Extreme Ultraviolet Astrophysics at the University of California, Berkeley, and Visiting Fellow at the Max-Planck Institute for Extraterrestrial Physics in Garching, Germany. His work has led to close involvement with NASA; he is the author of over 130 scientific papers; and was the Scientific Editor of the Astrophysical Journal for nine years, as well as the editor in chief of the Journal of Scientific Exploration.

an excerpt

If you think of whitte light as a metaphor of infinite, formless potential, the colors on a slide or frame of film become a structured reality grounded in the polarity that comes about through intelligent subtraction from that absolute formless potential. It results from the limitation of the unlimited. I contend that this metaphor provides a comprehensible theory for the creation of a manifest reality (our universe) from the selective limitation of infinite potential (God)...
If there exists an absolute realm that consists of infinite potential out of which a created realm of polarity emerges, is there any sensible reason not to call this "God"? Or to put it frankly, if the absolute is not God, what is it? For our purposes here, I will indentify the Absolute with God. More precisely I will call the Absolute the Godhead. Applying this new terminology to the optics analogy, we can conclude that our physical universe comes about when the Godhead selectively limits itself, taking on the role of Creator and manifesting a realm of space and time and, within that realm, filtering out some of its own infinite potential...
Viewed this way, the process of creation is the exact opposite of making something out of nothing. It is, on the contrary, a filtering process that makes something out of everything. Creation is not capricious or random addition; it is intelligent and selective subtraction. The implications of this are profound.

If the Absolute is the Godhead, and if creation is the process by which the Godhead filters out parts of its own infinite potential to manifest a physical reality that supports experience, then the stuff that is left over, the residue of this process, is our physical universe, and ourselves included. We are nothing less than a part of that Godhead - quite literally.

Next, by Ervin Laszlo

Science and the Akashic Field, an Integral Theory of Everything, 2004
www.amazon.com...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1249275852&sr=8-1

And, his other seminal work
Science and the Reenchantment of the Cosmos: The Rise of the Integral Vision of Reality
www.amazon.com...=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1249275852&sr=8-6

Ervin Laszlo is considered one of the foremost thinkers and scientists of our age, perhaps the greatest mind since Einstein. His principal focus of research involves the Zero Point Field. He is the author of around seventy five books (his works having been translated into at least seventeen languages), and he has contributed to over 400 papers. Widely considered the father of systems philosophy and general evolution theory, he has worked as an advisor to the Director-General of the United Nations Educational, Scientific, and Cultural Organization. He was also nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize in both 2004 and 2005. A multidisciplinarian, Laszlo has straddled numerous fields, having worked at universities as a professor of philosophy, music, futures studies, systems science, peace studies, and evolutionary studies. He was a sucessful concert pianist until he was thirty eight.

In his view, the zero-point field (or the Akashic Field, as he calls it) is quite literally the "mind of God".

Naming Hal Puthoff, Roger Penrose, Fritz-Albert Popp, and a handful of others as "front line investigators", Laszlo quotes Puthoff who says of the new scientific paradigm:

[What] would emerge would be an increased understanding that all of us are immersed, both as living and physical beings, in an overall interpenetrating and interdependant field in ecological balance with the cosmos as a whole, and that even the boundary lines between the physical and "metaphysical" would dissolve into a unitary viewpoint of the universe as a fluid, changing, energetic/informational cosmological unity."

an excert from Science and the Akashic Field, an Integral Theory of Everything

Akasha (a . ka . sha) is a Sanskrit word meaning "ether": all-pervasive space. Originally signifying "radiation" or "brilliance", in Indian philosophy akasha was considered the first and most fundamental of the five elements - the others being vata (air), agni (fire), ap (water), and prithivi (earth). Akasha embraces the properties of all five elements: it is the womb from which everything we percieve with our senses has emerged and into which everything will ultimately re-descend. The Akashic Record (also called The Akashic Chronicle) is the enduring record of all that happens, and has ever happened, in space and time."

Laszlo's view of the history of the universe is of a series of universes that rise and fall, but are each "in-formed" by the existence of the previous one. In Laszlo's mind, the universe is becoming more and more in-formed, and within the physical universe, matter (which is the crystallization of intersecting pressure waves or an interference pattern moving through the zero-point field) is becoming increasing in-formed and evolving toward higher forms of consciousness and realization.

------------

According to James Oroc's experiences (Tryptamine Palace), when the ego is dissolved in consciousness through the temporary formation of a type of neurological "Bose Einstein Condensate", there is no real dilineation or distinction between individual consciousness and God-consciousness or the universal "akashic field" (Lazslo) aka Zero Point Field.

reply to post by Sahabi


You make a very good point, and I will tell you why. I worked as an auto mechanic for 38 years, and during those years I had a great lot of oil and grease on my hands, and I often washed this off with gasoline. Now my doctors tell me my blood is .0003% petroleum distillates. It most certainly does absorb through the skin.

reply to post by Sahabi


A metaphysical truth should not me mistaken for any other truth. Mis applying truths across the board is a recipe for big trouble. Now let me have oneness with your pension plan

Originally posted by sinohptik
It seems the separation is yielded by perspective.

That's interesting. I love it how you come across these gems here at ATS, recognizing at the same time, that 100,000 others (more more in time) will unearth them as well, if not by reading or visiting here and finding them also, but even as a type of "hundred monkey syndrome" (not that the human being is a monkey, as much as I love monkeys) whereby the morphic field or the crystalline element of the universe itself, has opened up and rendered another pearl or another prescious stone, from Jasmine to Ruby, Diamond, etc.even if only in formation, the noosphere immediately picking up that idea and weiging it out and testing it, passing it on, becoming one with it, appropriating or grokking of, it's just a whole new ballgame imho, and I am often astounded by the performance of wisdom or the spirit of truth and life and love, both in others as well as in myself (I think i've managed to serve up a couple along the way!).

Thank you YOU then, and everyone, including me (and your dog - i don't have one). Thank you Earth, Sol, Milkey Way, The Great Wall and God himself, the spirit of the universe, even if only as the entire collective consciousness and unconsciousness of all created sentients as God's own predistined self realization, through the creation, and finally at the very apex of the cosmic evolutionary process, through us, with a smile and a hug. I am becoming, strangely via my own participation here at ATS, a walking smile and hug, my love for people is growing, why? Because of my love for you guys and you, for me. If I generate a "clearing" of sorts here for anyone, I do for myself, and then... well this might sound crazy or solipsistic perhaps, but because everything IS one to begin with, in the everything everywhere always and forever, that is the fully informed Akashic Field (brilliance) but when I allow myself to be open to learning and sharing something of prescious value, a gem, as it gets picked up by you dear reader in the noosphere, I get FEEDBACK here on my end, and my world get's a little brighter, a little clearer, more filled with a fearless love and a playful humour, which is neighter me nor God but the TWO of us laughing together, playing together, walking together - he really wants just so much and the very very best for us, that we might learn, and relearn the way of love, light, the way of liberation in eternity, and therefore liberated for the sake of love, to begin to freely love as we are loved already by God as the everything already always right across the entire spectrum of all being and becoming.

So thank you for teaching me, and for giving me the opportunity to let the teacher speak through me, to you, and thank you again for the mutual understanding, the "grokking" which opens up a whole new creative realm of possibility, for us all.

Can that be generated universally via an internet discussion forum?

Yes, it can!

It does.

And it's not a matter of competing POV's or perspectives, since this perspective is the perspective that doesn't HAVE one, which is open, pointless, humorous, playful and loving, a self that is no self, and in being nothing, being recognized by God who is everything already always, and although I was lost, a "wrech like me" now I am found again.

May we all be continually rediscovered in eternity by God, so that the love of God might be known, and come to light, radiating in turn back to us, from our own star - God smiling upon us in some unfathonably mysterious way, through the light of life, which trascends and includes, them ALL!

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
I am often astounded by the performance of wisdom or the spirit of truth and life and love, both in others as well as in myself (I think i've managed to serve up a couple along the way!).

It is incredible, to this one, to be able (and indeed blessed!) to be given the opportunity to learn from different perspectives. Even in sharing "my own," there is still learning to be had. It is the.. inherent dichotomy of a finite mind. and this one enjoys the "hunt."

Can that be generated universally via an internet discussion forum?

Yes, it can!

It does.

Abso-freakin-lutely my brother! Most words will simply be glancing blows, but when the "quantum laser sights" are properly adjusted, they can stick. Such words can be incorporated into these perspectives, and then shared with others through our actions. Some will take them and actually make a change within, which will continue to spread through "sociological physics"

And it's not a matter of competing POV's or perspectives, since this perspective is the perspective that doesn't HAVE one, which is open, pointless, humorous, playful and loving, a self that is no self, and in being nothing, being recognized by God who is everything already always, and although I was lost, a "wrech like me" now I am found again.

It is through that discourse that we can truly find how vast this ocean truly is... Not so limited as to have one system be "right" and the other "wrong," but an amazing situation where all systems are as valid as another. Some unbalanced, careening through space. Some shining impeccably as the brightest supernova. All beautiful, all valid

reply to post by Sahabi

To have an intellectual understanding that all things are One ...is definitely one thing ....

But to have a direct experience as all things being One thing is entirely another thing all together!!!!

Had you been directly experiencing the Oneness of all things, then this post would never have been made.

But since you made this post, it is a truthful and direct reflection, that you are operating simply from the intellectual level of the existence of Oneness.

Find the experience for yourself and their will be no more questions. Instead there will be a knowing and seeing that nothing can harm the real you.

You are not the body, you are not the mind, you are not the ego, you are not any thoughts ....the real you is untouched by anything that can happen to the body, mind, skin, feelings, emotions ...etc....

That real you is One!!!!

Originally posted by Sahabi
If Oneness is a Truth, why must I be mindful of the toxic dangers associated with skin absorption at my place of employment?

Because on the physical level, we are individuals.
On the psychic (soul) level, we are all connected.
On the mystic (spiritual) level, we are all one.

If All are One, how can anything harm? How can anything kill? How can anything be a danger to another thing?

Thoughts?

Well, I guess it all depends upon where one places their own concept of the root of their life, or existence.

For those that are rooted in the superficial visible level, which is flesh, there is danger and threats in everything...hence the perspective is clouded by fear.

If one is rooted in the foundation level which is invisible and is spirit, then nothing is of any consequence, whatsoever, be it scary and traumatic or fun and pleasurable.

For those who find balance between the two extremes, in the realm of the soul...trauma, injury, and death are not something one chases after but on the other hand, one does not run from them in fear but faces it all with calmness and inner peace...because to die with one's faculties intact increases the chances of remembering the trip over to the "other side," and possibly even the trip back.

What a trip!