Are professional sports predetermined?

NBA refereeTim Donaghy actually got caught cheating and betting on basketball.

On July 20, 2007, columnist Murray Weiss of the New York Post reported an investigation by the FBI into allegations of an NBA referee betting on games to control the point spread. It was revealed that Donaghy, who has a gambling problem, placed tens of thousands of dollars in bets on games during the 2005–06 and 2006–07 season and had been approached by low-level mob associates to work on a gambling scheme. Mike Missanelli of The Stephen A. Smith Show suggested that Donaghy had gotten himself into debt and tried to make it up by betting on games.

In the link below you will see David Stern, NBA Commissioner, use bully tactics to try and persuade the public, Tim Donaghy is a liar. This had the opposite effect on myself, because he seemed like he was pressing the issue.

Tim Donaghy alleges rampant cheating after admitting to cheating in the NBA

Heres a quote from Tim Donaghy that I think is very truthful, even though the source can easily be discredited by the NBA, because he himself, got caught cheating after an FBI investigation into referee betting.

“Studying under Dick Bavetta for 13 years was like pursuing a graduate degree in advanced game manipulation,”

Bavetta was one of three referees for the Game 6 of the 2002 Western Conference Finals between Sacramento Kings and the Los Angeles Lakers. Former referee Tim Donaghy has alleged that at least one of the referees working this game had subjective motives for wanting the Lakers to defeat the Kings, and made officiating calls to effectuate this outcome. The NBA has not permitted Bavetta to speak publicly regarding the incident, though The New York Times reported on June 12, 2008 that the FBI is investigating allegations that Game 6 of the 2002 Western Conference finals had been manipulated to further the series to a seventh game.

Here is a link to an OTRbasketball.com thread, in which a determined thread starter uncovers some very interesting officiating stats on Dick Bavetta.

This is just a few instances where we see cheating in one sport. My personal opinion is, we would see cheating all over sports if we really took the time to look.

If the NFL is "fixed" and predetermined or even College Football for that matter, then the players dont know about it. .Those players would not go out on the field every sunday and put their bodies on the lines for no reason...especially if they knew they were going out there doing what they do just to lose. Yeah, you can say when millions of dollars are involved, people would do anything. However, as I will explain later, you wouldnt do it if it had serious repercussions later on in life. I mean, think about how many players/people are involved in the league. Lets say it was fixed, if it was, so many people are involved that it would have came out by now.

Ive heard NFL offensive and defensive linemen say many many times that after a game on a sunday, its pretty much equal to a car wreck. These are 330 pound men that can run faster or as fast than probably most people on this board. Nobody in their right mind would put their bodies on the line knowing that the game is fixed, period. These players are going out there and getting serious injuries and concussions etc that will effect them later in life. There is no way they'd go out there and play a predetermined game knowing these things. You may find someone crazy here and there to do it, but the NFL has 32 teams and 53 players per team and that isnt counting practice squads and coaching staffs and front office personnel et al.

Think McMahon, the QB of the 85 Bears, would have played the game if he knew it was predetermined? He had so many concussions that he cannot remember anything anymore nor can he talk well anymore. He is pretty much turning into a vegetable and there are many many cases like this.

So no, I personally do not think Football at least, is fixed. *If* it is, the players do not know about it and I seriously doubt it would have gone on this long without someone finding out. Especially with how many players are involved in the league itself.

In the end, something would have came out by now. There are too many people involved in the NFL to keep something as huge as "predetermined games" hush hush for so long. We would have found out about this years ago if it were true.

reply to post by -Blackout-


Yep i agree for most part players are not involved in cheating today, but yesteryear may of been different. You are very right no player in there right mind would like in soccer not do a tackle full.

But the ptb have loads of techs today to hinder players, and make sure they can virtually decide a game. Today the cheating comes in form of either stopping teams with non lethel weapons or boosting teams hormones with various means. There are even non lethel weapons that boost hormones.

You see in soccer, if a team is targeted with weapons, the most important thing they must do is to score a goal, that lifts there spirits so much, and its like your body lifts itself of the floor. But the problem is when teams are targeted can they get the score to lift themselves? Just imagine if all your team are sick with headaches or what have you after being targeted, the only way to fix that in soccer is to score a goal, it gives you such a lift its really amazing how it works.

Just kicking a bag of wind(which is a football), into a net, can do so much. It really is amazing, how something so small can lift so many people.

I do not know about american footie, but thats how soccer works. Yep soccer is fixed but sometimes the opposition can lift themselves. Cheating is never absolute thing in sports and all sports, but the cheaters can make there odds in there favour. The quality of human tenacity means that you can never be sure how players react to being stopped by the opposition, thats why sports teams need all sorts of players.

Example of what i mean



See, what kicking a bag of wind into a net can do is amazing, lol. Like i said when you play in football, you have to score, and its amazing.

Here is another
Man utd tried to stop bayern, and bayern could not do anything in that game for 40 mins, and out of nowhere got a goal, and went on to knock man utd out of cl league. Makes me laugh that alex fergie tried to stop bayern, but scoring that one goal changed the whole game. Bayern munich where no where in that game and could not get there heads of the floor, but that goal changed everything, and lifted them. Shows you how to beat cheating, and bayern showed us that night that sometimes the good guys win. Alex ferguson for manu and his cheating came a cropper that night, lol.


Haha alex ferguson and man utd tried to cheat that night and stop bayern Munich, and bayern beat them. Shows you sometimes cheaters lose, lol.

If alex ferguson ever told the truth about how he gets success you would take back all his medals, lol.

Lets look at how sometimes the good guys win.



Lol, that was such a nice night, and see how a bag of wind hitting a net makes everyone feel great.

You see in life sometimes the good guys do win.
haha alex ferguson thought he had the game fixed, lol

All is not lost in sports although sports are most fixed, sometimes people good guys do win. That night bayern showed manu that cheaters do not always prosper, lol.

I don't see how the Yankees can be cited as an example of "rising to the occasion."
They won the World Series in 96, 98, 99, and 2000. Then they lost the World Series in 2001 and 2003, and no New York baseball team won again until 2009.

If anything, 9/11 put a temporary "curse" on the Yankees.

The Saints also made it to the NFC championship game shortly after Katrina.........and lost to the Bears. Had they won, they would've played the Colts in the Superbowl, in what surely would have been the highest rated SB of all time. Doesn't seem fixed to me.

reply to post by rebeldog


LMAO This is the same exact game that convinced me that football was fixed ( I thought I was the only one ).... It happened a while ago and a lot of the highlights I can't recall but after a few bogus call from the ref I knew the game just reeked with BS...

the superbowl is a prime example...

The numbers run as a fix... Watch the game and certain players...it is old fashion control methods similar to points shaving... I noticed an arizona player earlier this season.. and the steelers did it three times a few hours ago...

you only catch it when you you barely pay attention... it seems to be like one of those pictures you have to stare at it a few a moments..

One of the weird things was the pregame...

all but one picked greenbay...

greenbay was predicted to lose via numbers....

Listen your subconcious mind catches things you miss.

I have to go with the wrestling thing... its entertainment...

The us sports set up...

a star or two on the team... the owners... and a ref... you control the flow... you control the game... it is about the fans in the stand and the merchandise...

not that hard... especially if you also control the info flow... copyrights and trademarks...


Proof: next year
Wait till it hits the news over what will be done to the NFL's players by the owners...lockout

take a cut or you dont play...

(I love inside info)

cash generating systems... that is the basis of the considerations they make

I felt compelled to join after I started reading this thread...

I have been a fan of pro wrestling for 25 years. I have read numerous books on the history of wrestling and I would consider myself somewhat of an expert. The thing to keep in mind is that up until te mid '80's, most people thought that wrestling was real. David Schultz even slapped the crap out of John Stossel to protect the integrity of the "sport." Modern pro wrestling has been around in the early 1900's and it started as legitimate competition as a side show attraction for travelling circuses. Over time, promoters and wrestlers recognized that money could be made by everyone if the fans got what they wanted. Most of the top guys were legit tough guys that could keep a rogue wrestler or promoter in line. In many ways fixing pro wrestling would have been more difficult because you had to count on regional promoters to cooperate with much less at stake than the NFL's millions.

With pro wrestling, EVERYONE on the inside was involved in the con. With the NFL, only a relative few would need to be in the know. Also, not every game would need to be fixed. In most cases, it wouldn't take much more than a coach who knew the opposing plays and called his plays accordingly.

As a side note, I worked with a guy years ago who was insistant that the NFL was fixed. After listening to this for weeks, I put him to the challenge of proving himself. We printed off the final point spread just before Sunday's games and I his job was to come back Monday morning with some proof of game fixing. Monday afternoon, he came to me with 4 games that week that had peculiar results closely related to the final score. In one instance, the losing team kicked a field goal dispite being down by 5 with almost no time left. He then showed me that the point spread was 2 1/2 points. The last minute field goal covered the spread! He also showed me plays that would havechanged the outcome but were called back for penalties.

Again, not every play would need to be fixed. All it would take is for a defense to know where to position themselves on a crucial drive or a QB to know where to throw between defenders. Nobody wants to think about it, but it is a lot easier than anyone realizes.