Patriot Act gives govenrment ability to pry into persons reading habits

Well that's what the Republican got:

GOP lobbying defeats bid to curb Patriot Act
Effort to close library records blocked
By ERIC LICHTBLAU
New York Times
WASHINGTON -- An effort to ban the government from demanding records from libraries and book sellers in some terrorism investigations fell one vote short of passage in the House on Thursday after a late burst of lobbying prompted eight Republicans to switch their votes.

The vote, which ended in a deadlock, 210-210, amounted to a referendum on the anti-terrorism law known as the USA Patriot Act and reflected deep divisions in Congress over whether the law undercuts civil liberties. Under House rules, a tie vote meant the measure was defeated.

The outcome led to angry recriminations from House Democrats, who accused Republicans of "vote-rigging" by holding the vote open for an extra 23 minutes in order to get enough colleagues to switch votes. Frustrated Democrats shouted "Shame, shame!" and "Democracy!" as the voting continued, but Republicans defended their right as the majority party to keep the vote open in order to "educate members" about the dangers of scaling back government counter-terrorism powers.

www.chron.com...

Is this taking away our civil liberties? IMO the government doesn't need to pry into your personal reading. They can find terrorist in other ways besides from using the Patriot Act. The Patriot Act was not designed to find terrorist IMO. It was designed take away our liberties. Your thoughts?

I agree with you 100% on this issue. If the FBI has to resort to looking at check out lists and my buying habits on AMazon, we are indeed in real trouble. This aspect has litle to due with terrorism and more to do with ashcrofts vision of a ultra religious right controlled society

So I have a question. If I went to a store and wanted to by something like the Anarchist's Cookbook with cash would I have to give them my name? It may sound ridiculous, but that is what this opens the door to.

Originally posted by Jonna
So I have a question. If I went to a store and wanted to by something like the Anarchist's Cookbook with cash would I have to give them my name? It may sound ridiculous, but that is what this opens the door to.

Perhaps in future version of the law. We are eventually and gradually trasitioning to a credit card world. Cash outlets will slowly peter out. Then what? But should I automatically be checked out by the FBI if I say buy a book on Islam? Without evidence, without a judge or grand jury looking at thier evidence and approving it. No way maybe in N. Korea or CHima, but it should not happen here.

I agree because what if I'm buying that book on Islam because I'm interested in their culture that doesn't relate to terrorist. What's if it's because the teacher asked me to do a report on it. I'm sure a history book from the library isn't going to have terrorism on every page in the book.

No one likes having someone going through the details of your life, and its demeaning.

I know that no one will convince you that there is a legitimate reason for procedures like this, but the biggest threat to your safety is not big government; it's big business.

The little 'shopper club' cards at the supermarket are a much better way of tracking your spending habits.

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If anything, I figure Justice is data-mining information to build up a profile. Of the several hundred thousand people who buy the anarchist cookbook, the govt only has time to 'vet' about 20 or so. So they crossmatch purchasers of the anarchist cookbook with creditcardholders who attempted to buy fertalizers in bulk without having an applicator's permit, or who have long-distance calls to more than one nation on America's watchlist, or who's credit card bills are paid from overseas accounts, etc.

Let me ask you this: If you don't want counter-intelligence doing this kind of thing to locate terror cells, just how DO you want them to perform their job?

Pretend you are in charge of counter-terrorism at the white house on January 21, 2005. President Kerry has hand-picked you to lead the counter-terrorism task force. Those evil-tempered republicans removed all their papers when they left, so you have an empty office, and no protocols.

What would you do to combat terrorism? Without disrespecting anyone's rights, please.

I don't think it's anything to be concerned about. It's just one way the government builds up a case against someone they arrest for either attacking or threatening to attack people. It's used as evidence in court. Unless you buy books about making bombs and killing people on a regular basis (as well as do lots of other things, the government is trying to build a case here, remember), the government doesn't care if you like cartoons or Playboy or whatever. The problem with the 'Big Brother' theory is that the government simply doesn't have the time to do the kind of data mining that some people believe it can; the fact that I love Star Wars and Chick-Fil-A chicken biscuits doesn't help the government accomplish anything at all, for example.

Just like bugging your telephone, e-mail, or your house when you're suspected of either committing or planning a crime, the police have to get a warrant from a judge to do this. The police can't arrest you for simply checking out "The Anarchist's Cookbook" (if they could arrest you for JUST reading it, then we'd have a real problem!)... but they can keep an eye on you, with a warrant from a judge.

Relax! Sometimes I think it's funny that people aren't bothered by the police bugging your telephone or e-mail, but knowing what books you buy or check out worries them greatly. Heck, the librarian already knows what books you check out... that's why they know when to fine you for returning a book late.

Is the government tramplin on your rights to read these works? No

Are they taking them off the shelves? No

Are they punishing you for reading them? No

What intrinsic rights are the government stepping on here.

They are simply cross referencing certtain behaviors with other factors to possibly identify terrorists.

I will listen to you bitch when the feds kick in your door and arrest you for reading the Turner Diaries.