An alternative view into Jared Lee Loughner's motivations.

Originally posted by Alxandro
reply to post by filosophia

 

There was some guy by the name of BoyBlue posting on the DailyKos site who also thought Giffords was a fake.
Reason being, Giffords personally told him she would stand behind Pelosi, but when the rubber finally met the road Giffords decided instead to double cross Nancy.

Maybe the shooter was also a Pelosi fan and felt the same way about Giffords?

Also, referring to the perp by his first name gives one the impression that the op might feel a little bit of sympathy towards him. I sure hope the op is not treating him as the victim here.

Ok, I give up.
People are completely missing the point that I'm trying to make, which is that this sicko might have created the internet persona he has just to screw with people(and possibly support an insanity defense), and he might have targeted Giffords because he really didn't like her and she was a politcal figure, instantly propelling him into the limelight where he can screw with a larger audience. If this is a correct assumption, then we are massively feeding into the will and ego of a depraved murderer. People troll on forums, they post inflammatory things they don't mean just to get people bent out of shape because it makes them giggle or feel superior. People grief on multiplayer games, killing or otherwise hampering other players robbing them of their enjoyment of the game, for the same reason. What if the psycho posted controversial novels on a favorites list, made crazy videos, and posted nonsense on forums for the same basic reason? And I ask for thoughts on this, and I get accused of actually liking or supporting the guy? No thank you. I quit. Deny Ignorance indeed.

reply to post by indianajoe77


Oh, thank you so much for getting what I meant!

I wonder if they will release his dream journal.

I hope so, but it might take months or even years, if they have it.

reply to post by Taliesien333


I understand what you are saying, when I first heard he liked to push peoples buttons, I wondered if he was actually sane after all,

Hard to believe he might not be,

People troll on forums, they post inflammatory things they don't mean just to get people bent out of shape because it makes them giggle or feel superior.

They sure do.

Why is he smiling?

Could it be he thinks he's got what he wanted? Fame, and all that this fifteen minutes will bring with it? That he's so lost to the reality of the situation, he thinks he's going to reap some sort of good out of it?

He's, quite simply, mad. So who knows why...and, to be perfectly honest, I don't want to know why or to understand that level of madness.

Good thread, ive read a lot of them on this guy but none pointed to that interview.
You could have titled it better though, telling what the thread has to offer so people know there is something different

i wish i could go talk to him, i wonder what was truly on his mind
maybe explain that what he did was completly counter-productive as well

reply to post by iSHRED


Thanks for the advice, and I hope the new title better explains it.

Originally posted by butcherguy
reply to post by internationalcriminal

 

As if to say there exists a lawful way to kill a federal employee!?

Self defense is a lawful way of killing someone, even if they are a federal employee.

He obviously doesn't fit that category though. I think it is stupid that murdering a federal employee breaks a separate law other than just plain murder.

The reason being that state governed cases of murder carry lower penalties. The penalties can vary according to the conviction, in some cases as low as 6 years serve 1, etc.

In cases where it is an official, it becomes a Federally governed case, which can carry the death penalty.

You can rest assured he will be facing the death penalty. His intent has already been proven.

Even though he may be "disturbed", "unbalanced", or "mentally ill", an insanity defense is based soley on the ability to know right from wrong. He did know right from wrong, he ran from his father when confronted the morning of the shooting. He also posted a message to his friends asking them to not be mad, and posted a goodbye message. These things do hint at knowing he was about to do something not accepted as "okay".

The idea behind stiffer penalties for killing government officials is to be deemed as a deterrent, which may or may not work. Premeditation also plays a part, whether it be a state case or a federal case. There is also some evidence already seized that he premeditated the crime, where a note was found in his home that states something along the lines of, "I planned this".

Once he is Federally charged and convicted, he will also be state charged and convicted. One way or the other, he will get the death penalty for killing the Federal Judge.


There are a lot of reasons for having both Federal offenses and state or local offenses, but the penalties are usually far greater for Federal offenses.

reply to post by seagull


I agree with you. I don't do crazy, and I do not wish to understand what his postings meant. The sheer fact that I was able to glean his dissatisfaction with the government and Federal Reserve was enough for me.

I think he was smiling because he is crazy, and I think he wanted to commit suicide by cop, but I also think he believes he is intellectually above everyone else - and truly believes he will get out of this in court. But above all, he is crazy. Insane? I think to be able to kill people in the way he did is insane, but legally? Nope. He knew what he was doing.

If the day ever came that I had to injure or kill someone in self defense, I would find myself deeply disturbed, albeit legally justified to do so. Would I? Yes. Would I like it? No, it would destroy me to take a life. It would indeed be a dark day for me. This person did not have that inner struggle, as is obvious, or perhaps he felt justified in his own sick thinking. He still knew it was wrong.

reply to post by Stormdancer777


I certainly don't think he is sane. I'm just not sure he is the kinda crazy that is in popular opinion. And he certainly isn't the kinda crazy that would be found mentally incompetent to stand trial. He harbored a grudge against the Congresswoman he left behind an envelope that said he planned it, and referred to it as an assassination. Obviously premeditated.

reply to post by Taliesien333

Good post,

I read about the links earlier this week and it had me thinking - He wanted chaos. Didn't care how, just wanted to cause it. However it seems this attempted assassination was 100% pre-meditated, he may have wanted to cause chaos before, but his ultimate goal was to murder Giffords.

But I see two sides, one is someone who gave the illusion of someone going mad so if his assassination was to be a success he could plea insanity. Alternatively, he was so warped he simply didn't care.

It's clear he was a confused person, he is lost within his own mind almost... "concience dreaming" and his obsession with lucid dreaming would indicate that he wanted to create his own little world. What if his apparent hatred of Giffords was something he tried to control in a dream? It isn't impossible if you're trained well enough to force your mind to dream it. Alternatively, he just so happened to dream about killing Giffords and the line between controlling life and his dreams became blurred?

His videos and posts on here seem incoherent, but planned, as though he has thought about them. Very much like the flag burning video, it doesn't seem as though he had woke up one morning and thought "hey, I'm going into a desert dressed in a bin bag to burn the stars and stripes!". He wanted to make the video to provoke... just like his posts, just like his alledged issues in college and just like his favourate books etc.

But this is where I'm confused...

He wanted to provoke chaos under the illusion of a mad man to others in the past, but this? This is something he must have been waiting for, probably not for the chaos aspect, but solely to prove a point to someone who didn't understand a question he asked. HOWEVER - Shooting the whole place up and killing 6 people seems like a trait of a mad man. When we usually hear of pre-meditated attacks on officials there's usually just the person they wanted to kill being hit (abiet a bodyguard or two).

If his sole purpose was to kill Giffords and Giffords only, I would have thought he would have done that, then turned the gun on himself. There seems to be motive for the attempted murder, planned out in sorts. But then the need for chaos also.

I'm confused writing this myself! What I'm trying to conclude is... He had a motive, but had the lack of control he would feel within a dream (lucid dreaming). When he realised he wasn't able to control all outcomes he did the next best thing... shoot the place up.

My biggest question is whether he was planning to kill himself or not. Knowing that might be able to shed some light on the chaos aspect... if he was planning on surviving this, he could see what he had "achieved" (in his own mind by the way, I'm not calling this an achievement). It would seem this way by his horrid little grin anyway.