An alternative view into Jared Lee Loughner's motivations.

Before we begin, this is my first post so I hope it's worth something. And I have no idea if this is the right forum for it, if it isn't Mods please move it where it should be.

Please read these stories before we begin our discussion:

This first one contains a degree of profanity in it's quotes, unfortunately in some important points...just fair warning if you are offended by such things.

Page 1
Exclusive: Loughner Friend Explains Alleged Gunman's Grudge Against Giffords

Page 2
Exclusive: Loughner Friend Explains Alleged Gunman's Grudge Against Giffords

The next is from CBS news
Ex-Friend: Loughner Wanted Eyes of Public, Media

Now granted this all rests on the statements of one individual.

But if true, this paints a completely different picture of Jared Lee Loughner. And a more frightening one to me, just in measure of what he accomplished. If his aim with his youtube and ATS posts, and list of favorite books were just to mess with people, rabble-rouse? If chaos for chaos sake was his ultimate motivation, then all the stuff going on in the media and on these forums is a dream come true for him, he couldn't possibly have predicted the whole Sarah Palin right vs left fallout. Or our trying to figure out every little nuance of the inner workings of his thoughts, motivations, and beliefs. Or maybe he did predict it, and that thought terrifies me.

Tierney believes that Loughner was very interested in pushing people's buttons—and that may have been why he listed Hitler's Mein Kampf as one of his favorite books on his YouTube page. (Loughner's mom is Jewish, according to Tierney.) Loughner sometimes approached strangers and would say "weird" things, Tierney recalls. "He would do it because he thought people were below him and he knew they wouldn't know what he was talking about."

Since hearing of the rampage, Tierney has been trying to figure out why Loughner did what he allegedly did. "More chaos, maybe," he says. "I think the reason he did it was mainly to just promote chaos. He wanted the media to freak out about this whole thing. He wanted exactly what's happening. He wants all of that." Tierney thinks that Loughner's mindset was like the Joker in the most recent Batman movie: "He f***s things up to f*** s*** up, there's no rhyme or reason, he wants to watch the world burn. He probably wanted to take everyone out of their monotonous lives: 'Another Saturday, going to go get groceries'—to take people out of these norms that he thought society had trapped us in."

When asked if Loughner was the kind of person who wanted attention, Tierney said, "Attention? I would say more just the reaction, more of trolling for a reaction, and the eye of the public, and the eyes of the media, and stuff like that."

Your thoughts?

Welcome to the board. There are plenty of discussions about this whack-a-doo character.
Perhaps you could join some discussion already taking place.
Anyway, welcome and enjoy your stay.

The way you refer to him as Jared and also jll is a little weird, it's as though you know him, or he is a friend of this site..


Btw.. Welcome and hope you enjoy the site..

reply to post by Misterlondon


Not at all. I just don't like typing out his name. Whatever his motivations are, he disgusts me, and I'm profoundly grateful I've net met him.

Something, I have been thinking. Did he believe Gifford's would be
the first female president of USA? His hate toward her as being
a threat to him/our America?

I wonder if they will release his dream journal. It is an interesting theory that he did it for chaos sake, but I simply don't believe in absolute randomness. Loughner thought Gifford was a "fake" so that is a reason to attack her. If it was truly based upon chaos then Loughner would have just attacked random people. Enough video games and television show insane people killing innocents, that is more likely the picture of insanity than someone holding a grudge against someone for a specific reason such as not getting his question answered sufficiently. All these reasons point to a plan and not randomness.

reply to post by filosophia


I'm not talking about chaos in the abstract. I'm talking about just throwing a wrench in the works. He had a grudge against Giffords and she was somebody whose death would get media attention. He'd get to be famous, and by leaving behind a bunch of controversial material in his wake he'd have all this focus and attention. He probably didn't expect to survive, leaving behind an enigma that we'd eat up and never answer. He lived, but he's not talking, thus achieving the same goal, at least in the short term, plus this has polarized a nation. Right vs Left over rhetoric and implied responsibility. 2nd Amendment vs Gun Control.

reply to post by Taliesien333

It's kind of odd, in your first link they say he has been charged with (among other things) "unlawfully killing a federal employee".... As if to say there exists a lawful way to kill a federal employee!?
Anyway, just something I noticed.

Peace,
J.

Originally posted by internationalcriminal
reply to post by Taliesien333

 

It's kind of odd, in your first link they say he has been charged with (among other things) "unlawfully killing a federal employee".... As if to say there exists a lawful way to kill a federal employee!?
Anyway, just something I noticed.

Peace,
J.

Lawful would be a death sentance passed by the law.

reply to post by internationalcriminal

As if to say there exists a lawful way to kill a federal employee!?

Self defense is a lawful way of killing someone, even if they are a federal employee.

He obviously doesn't fit that category though. I think it is stupid that murdering a federal employee breaks a separate law other than just plain murder.

Welcome Taliesien333 and thanks for the post. This sure clears things up for me. Gives Loughner a motive certainly. I wonder what her answer to his question was and if she had given a thoughtful response? I wonder if she made him feel like a idiot in public and that flipped his switch? That mugshot is really creepy, makes it look like the lights are on, but no one is there.

The pictures are different. The guy is the same. It happens whenj you take photos of people in different places at different times.. zomg!

Anything else ?

Christ sake, every time.. there always HAS to be bloody shenanigans..

911 - oh there were no planes it was magic
v-tech - oh he has to have been mkultra.
this - what a coverup, the mugshots are so mismatched.

TELL ME WHY. Have any of the other so called coverups led anywhere? Nah like the h1n1 panic, it goes away.

ugh...

muddy the waters more so any real conspiracy is overlooked... congrats..

Originally posted by 19rn50
Something, I have been thinking. Did he believe Gifford's would be
the first female president of USA? His hate toward her as being
a threat to him/our America?

No, I think his motives were much simpler than that.

His writings and postings show a deep distrust and dislike of the federal government.

I think Giffords was - in his mind - just the closest (to him) representative of the government he hated. That's probably how she got targeted. Not anything about her personally.

Originally posted by badw0lf
The pictures are different. The guy is the same. It happens whenj you take photos of people in different places at different times.. zomg!

Anything else ?

Christ sake, every time.. there always HAS to be bloody shenanigans..

911 - oh there were no planes it was magic
v-tech - oh he has to have been mkultra.
this - what a coverup, the mugshots are so mismatched.

TELL ME WHY. Have any of the other so called coverups led anywhere? Nah like the h1n1 panic, it goes away.

ugh...

muddy the waters more so any real conspiracy is overlooked... congrats..

edit on 12/1/2011 by badw0lf because: (no reason given)

What?
Did you even read my post or just Loughners name and mugshot in my title?
I never once mentioned the mugshot again, and certainly didn't say it wasn't him or that their was a conspiracy involved. My post is about his motivations, and doesn't involve any conspiracy.

Originally posted by badw0lf
The pictures are different. The guy is the same. It happens whenj you take photos of people in different places at different times.. zomg!

Anything else ?

Christ sake, every time.. there always HAS to be bloody shenanigans..

911 - oh there were no planes it was magic
v-tech - oh he has to have been mkultra.
this - what a coverup, the mugshots are so mismatched.

TELL ME WHY. Have any of the other so called coverups led anywhere? Nah like the h1n1 panic, it goes away.

ugh...

muddy the waters more so any real conspiracy is overlooked... congrats..

edit on 12/1/2011 by badw0lf because: (no reason given)

The really scary thing about the kinds of examples you posted is that they aren't much different - if at all - from what the shooter posted, and they are all over ATS!

whatever whenever took place in the months before the killing,
he definitly is not a dumb man and I think many people are staring blind on his postings on msg boards and other information he CHOSE to put online.

He commited a murder and will be punished for it eventually, there for he'll go to trial ... and as if you all don't see it coming, he will pleat "insanity"!
Why not? he has enough people online who supports his case, we are all calling him a nutjob already without knowing anything about motives and other things.

We are helping him to get a lighter punishment by analyzing him.... think about it

reply to post by Taliesien333


thanks for the links

reply to post by filosophia

There was some guy by the name of BoyBlue posting on the DailyKos site who also thought Giffords was a fake.
Reason being, Giffords personally told him she would stand behind Pelosi, but when the rubber finally met the road Giffords decided instead to double cross Nancy.

Maybe the shooter was also a Pelosi fan and felt the same way about Giffords?

Also, referring to the perp by his first name gives one the impression that the op might feel a little bit of sympathy towards him. I sure hope the op is not treating him as the victim here.

He's smiling because he's totally out of it and has no clue to the pain and anguish he's caused. His mental illness means that he doesn't care - about others or himself. So he's in his own 'happy place' right now ...

Originally posted by 19rn50
Did he believe Gifford's would be the first female president of USA?

Reading her stands and seeing how she handled herself .. was probably could have made a good run of it someday.

Great, fresh response and perspective here. I did find it odd that he was grinning ear to ear in the mugshot. At first I thought it was because he accomplished his twisted version of "fame" ala John Hinkley.

Your "Monkeywrench Theory" (yes, I gave it a name, lol) adds a deeper level to it. Basically, plan and plant clues/diversions that lead to nowhere and let authorities/society/ATSers try to solve a mystery that was designed to have no answer, creating a chaos of sorts.

I do agree that no matter how much "chaos" he planned, there is no way he could have forseen the political finger pointing and reaction in terms laws being proposed, etc.

Great first post!