Pledge of Allegiance BANNED!

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by felonius
I teach my kid the same thing but also let her know that the "warts" are from people that didn't / don't follow the constitution (and are not therefore entitled to the term "American").

If you take away the reasons to be a patriot, it makes the next generation easier to control.

My kid is in middle school and is already thinking politically.

If you start a tree to grow straight when its young, you'll not have to worry about it when its old.

Uh huh. So your kid is the next generation YOU.

I have one daughter that is a Christian Conservative. I have another that is a Spiritual Environmentalist. I'm an Agnostic Atheist - - who hangs out on ATS - - and doesn't believe there is an America anymore.

My mother raised me to not have any prejudices against people. I was shocked to find out one day she was race prejudice and asked her about it. She said she was raised in a different time - - - that she raised me without prejudice to live in My Time - - not hers.

Its one thing to raise a child with Integrity and Values. Its another to force your own politics on them. I am not saying you did - - but it sure sounds that way.

edit on 8-1-2011 by Annee because: quotes

Your an Agnostic Athiest. Kindof an oxymoron but hey, its your thing.

Dont believe America exists? Hmm.

Sounds like you rolled over on your back and let "Them" win.

"America" has really never "existed" I think. Its something in the soul and mind. You take it with you. With all of the warts this country has, I defy you to show a better concept of nation.

Originally posted by felonius

Your an Agnostic Athiest. Kindof an oxymoron but hey, its your thing.

Dont believe America exists? Hmm.

Sounds like you rolled over on your back and let "Them" win.

"America" has really never "existed" I think. Its something in the soul and mind. You take it with you. With all of the warts this country has, I defy you to show a better concept of nation.

"Agnostic Atheist" is not a term I came up with. I adopted it after reading the explanation. I personally prefer Humanist - - - but it doesn't lend itself to discussion - - because many don't know what it means.

"Them?" - - non-humans?

Hmmmm - - the "Ideals" of America. Interesting how some cherry pick those to fit their need (not saying you).

The changes from the original pledge - - - kind of affects its original intent - - - don't you think?

If our founding fathers hadn't been trailblazers and independent thinkers with a "new" concept of government - - - we wouldn't have those American Ideals. What if they had continued pledging to England - - without "new" thoughts?

So yes - - I can take the Ideals from our founders - - be independent thinking - - and look where I am going - - rather then be stagnate on where I have been.

This is a wonderful version done by Red Skelton,

And it is a pity that we as a People of this Nation have allowed those who are to represent us to become our

TASK MASTERS.

www.redskelton.com...
www.youtube.com...[/yvid]
Quote from Red Skelton,
Since I was a small boy, two states have been added to our nation, and two words have been added to the Pledge of Allegiance "under God." Wouldn't it be a pity if someone said, "That's a prayer" and that would be eliminated from schools, too?

Originally posted by ACTS 2:38
This is a wonderful version done by Red Skelton,

How many times must we hear about Red Skelton?

Let me tell you something else Red Skelton did. He lived up in the hills above the Sunset Strip. He took his movie projector and proceeded to show a porn movie from his property - - - on to a white garage door on the Sunset Strip.

Bet all the blood red Americans driving down Sunset - - - totally appreciated it. Especially the ones with children in the car.

Its always interesting - - when people are selective on their values.

reply to post by Annee


And that relates to the way he explained the pledge how?

Originally posted by phoenix103
reply to post by Mastermook

 

Speakng as a Brit i find you forcing children to repeatedly take an oath to defend your country appalling.

Its brainwashing. Nothing more, nothing less.

i could say the same about CCTV in your country. Big brother's watching you my friend : )


Why do courts still swear on the bible?
Why is "God" on our coins?
Why was our country founded on God?
It doesn't make sense how one subject of God is considered violation of freedom of religion, when there are hundreds of other references towards God.
Why are they targeting the pledge of allegiance?


"""The federal court that touched off a furor in 2002 by declaring the words "under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance to be an unconstitutional endorsement of religion took another look at the issue Thursday and said the phrase invokes patriotism, not religious faith.

The daily schoolroom ritual is not a prayer, but instead "a recognition of our founders' political philosophy that a power greater than the government gives the people their inalienable rights," said the Ninth U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in San Francisco in a 2-1 ruling."""
articles.sfgate.com...

This is what I've been trying to clarify. A power greater then yourself. Because no man is all powerful, we are merely men and women.

Originally posted by ACTS 2:38
reply to post by Annee

 

And that relates to the way he explained the pledge how?

He did not write that - - it is a narrative written by one of his school teachers. He did write the final commentary.

Just "selectiveness" - - pet peeve of mine.

Originally posted by Mastermook

Originally posted by phoenix103
reply to post by Mastermook

 

Speakng as a Brit i find you forcing children to repeatedly take an oath to defend your country appalling.

Its brainwashing. Nothing more, nothing less.

i could say the same about CCTV in your country. Big brother's watching you my friend : )


Why do courts still swear on the bible?
Why is "God" on our coins?
Why was our country founded on God?
It doesn't make sense how one subject of God is considered violation of freedom of religion, when there are hundreds of other references towards God.
Why are they targeting the pledge of allegiance?

edit on 11-1-2011 by Mastermook because: (no reason given)

"""The federal court that touched off a furor in 2002 by declaring the words "under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance to be an unconstitutional endorsement of religion took another look at the issue Thursday and said the phrase invokes patriotism, not religious faith.

The daily schoolroom ritual is not a prayer, but instead "a recognition of our founders' political philosophy that a power greater than the government gives the people their inalienable rights," said the Ninth U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in San Francisco in a 2-1 ruling."""
articles.sfgate.com...

This is what I've been trying to clarify. A power greater then yourself. Because no man is all powerful, we are merely men and women.

edit on 11-1-2011 by Mastermook because: added link

Why do courts still swear on the Bible? They shouldn't.
Why is God on our coins(money)? Shouldn't be.
Why was our country founded on God? I don't think it was.
I'm not picking on the pledge, it's just one example of God being pushed on us when it shouldn't be.
You want to believe in and worship God, that is your right. And I wouldn't dream of going into a church or your home and telling you not to. But it shouldn't be forced on others. A power greater than the government, ok I'm fine with that. But it doesn't need to be called by a name attached to a specific religion. And a 2-1 ruling? That's hardly a unanimous decision, or in this case a justification. As I stated previously in this thread, would you defend this if it said Goddess? or Allah? or "insert deity here"? Because I would continue to hold my stance in that circumstance. Would you?

It is a pledge to the American flag - - which is a pledge to this country.

It should represent EVERY citizen.

Not ALL citizens believe in a God.

Therefore it misrepresents.

It is just plain wrong for something that should be for EVERY citizen - - to be exclusive to some - - and exclude others.

reply to post by Taliesien333


Allah is "God" in another language...same dude, different pronunciation of name.
But my view on this is, God wasn't just taken out of the pledge, the entire pledge was ceased.
Not because it was deemed socialistic, or mind controlling, as some people claim, but because it had the term "God". Sounds like a cop out to me. I can be for not necessarily having God in there, it will be a compromise and have the pledge, as it was "originally".
But obviously the school board or state doesn't want that. I think it's one more small thing to get people to accept the fact that we will all be one society, and no longer an individual country in the future. Patriotism (or God for that matter) is not encouraged, UNLESS the politics need it to declare war on a country. ie: President Bush.

I will point out that as a United States Armed Services member, it is very reassuring to know that children as they grow are taught the Pledge of Allegiance, not only to remind them of where this country came from but to help them establish that Allegiance at some sort of level to their peers, to their city/town.. or to whatever magnitude they are capable of. For them to come understand what this country had to do in order to gain its freedom and who they put their faith and trust in, the ethics, the morals, the practices, the traditions... and to note that the change from one generation to the next...

I pledge allegiance
1. the loyalty of a citizen to his or her government or of a subject to his or her sovereign.
2. loyalty or devotion to some person, group, cause, or the like.

...to the flag of the United States of America
1. there is a history behind the American flag where much allegiance was afforded to give today a liberty we would otherwise not know.

...and to the republic for which it stands
1. the flag represents the republic of America
2. A republic is a state under a form of government in which the people, or some significant portion of them, retain supreme control over the government - wikipedia
by the way we are seeming to be less of a republic everyday and more of a government controlled nation.

...one nation under God
1. the declaration of independence reads "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. "
obviously the founders of this country believed in a god and established the existence of god as a truth that cannot be shaken.

..indivisible
1. together, inseparable, as one

...with liberty and justice for all
1. Liberty is the concept of ideological and political philosophy that identifies the condition to which an individual has the right to behave according to one's own personal responsibility and free will. - wikipedia
2. Justice is the concept of moral rightness based on ethics, rationality, law, natural law, religion, fairness, or equity, along with the punishment of the breach of said ethics. - wikipedia

i think those two are self explanatory

Now if you read the Pledge of Allegiance and are not proud to quote it as an American to anyone anywhere, then you really need to consider relocating yourself in a country you care less about. Being a true American goes back to having a good understanding and respect for what this country was founded on.
The Pledge of Allegiance is an oath taken a day at a time by those willing to serve America by the expectations clearly laid out in the pledge itself. to pledge their loyalty to the flag, to their peers, to their neighbors, to the nation... one nation under God - why under God? because its part of what this country was founded on, obviously it helped us get to where we are.

The Pledge is a necessary item we need to keep in our schools, not only because it serves as a reminder but it also sets a goal ahead, a unified goal for all who pledge their oath. is it indoctrination? i guess you can call it that, i dont see any issue with an expectation such a this being set for the children of the US.
Why not be proud? why not encourage others to be proud? why not be loyal and pledge your allegiance? why not encourage others to pledge theirs?
This is the United States of America - in order to keep it the United States of America we cannot be divided, we must remain ONE NATION.

it seems that we are falling apart, why? well my personal opinion is that most of us dont want to answer to an absolute authority. we dont want to be "under God" we dont want to be accountable based on that absolute, we would rather make our own rules and justify them based on our own logic and reasoning. think about it, you dont have to admit that to me or anyone else, but thats what i tend to want to do in any given situation...
The 10 Commandments are something we have forgotten and in fact we embrace a lot of what the 10 commandments are against. the christian principles were not established to wipe out anyone who defies them, they are to make the importance of keeping the principles known so that we keep them in mind and practice them... making this nation better everyday.

Liberty and Justice for ALL

well ill tell ya, we have liberty, but we are really starting to lose justice, and after that will be liberty out the window as well. there are so many ways in this nation justice can be evaded and liberties can be taken away for reasons that are illogical, unconstitutional and just outright stupid.

Keep taking out the heritage of America and the principles this nation was founded on and you will find yourself in another country (not a true America) keep taking God out of the picture, and you will find yourself in a wreck.

The pledge of alligiance is a prayer to the state. Screw the state, screw its flag.

To think that the state would ban it own praise is almost unintuitive.

That's like the whole "put your hand on your heart" bullcrap. As Eddie Izzard said, americans, along with the Romans are the only people to do such an act, and it didn't go well for the Romans.


Seriously, do a quick wiki search and educate yourself. If you want to go further, use the sources on the bottom of the page. The pledge and the hand-heart thing is utter nationalistic crap.


Also, at one point, instead of putting your hand on your heart, you did the nazi salute before the nazi's took it over. It is all joiner, state worship.

OBEY

Originally posted by DINSTAAR
The pledge of alligiance is a prayer to the state. Screw the state, screw its flag.

To think that the state would ban it own praise is almost unintuitive.

That's like the whole "put your hand on your heart" bullcrap. As Eddie Izzard said, americans, along with the Romans are the only people to do such an act, and it didn't go well for the Romans.


Seriously, do a quick wiki search and educate yourself. If you want to go further, use the sources on the bottom of the page. The pledge and the hand-heart thing is utter nationalistic crap.


Also, at one point, instead of putting your hand on your heart, you did the nazi salute before the nazi's took it over. It is all joiner, state worship.

OBEY

like i said before, you should consider relocating yourself to a country you care less about....we really dont need people like you bringing this country down.
and its not a prayer, its an oath according to my wiki search i did before you posted.
educate myself? i love the ignorance in this suggestive statement... I put on my uniform everyday to protect your freedom. I get the point, i got my T-Shirt, i live it and im proud to be a true American.
Rome is a totally different story, maybe you should wiki that.

and if were state worship, for the state to ban it would be dividing a kingdom against itself - and we all know how that saying goes.

reply to post by Methuselah

like i said before, you should consider relocating yourself to a country you care less about....we really dont need people like you bringing this country down.

If you don't like america, you can git out!

I am not an elected official. I am not taking money from people. I am not bringing this country down. How can I be bringing this "country" down if I do nothing but be robbed but it? Also, down what?

and its not a prayer, its an oath according to my wiki search i did before you posted.

It's a prayer. One is giving a sacred oath of subserviance to an abstraction that exists in peoples minds (a nation). You are pledging your allegiance to tyranny. That's fun.

Your pledge of allegiance is a pledge to be a subject or a citizen (P.C. for subject) of a state. A state is its own religion. It exists as nothing more than a tyrannical system of violence set up by people who believe that it exists without such a system. Its dogmatic. It has its churches (schools and government facilities),

educate myself?

It seems like someone else has educated yourself for you.

i love the ignorance in this suggestive statement... I put on my uniform everyday to protect your freedom.

You don't explain the ignorance as this would be fighting against logic. That can't happen, so you bring up an emotional pull string as a diversion. Classy.

I put on my uniform everyday to protect your freedom.

blah blah blah blah blah. "I defend your freedom, so shut the f*** up!".
As I thought when I wore their uniforms as well. You have no sacred right to defense of freedom just because you serve in the military. I did not begin to fight for freedom until that uniform came off. I can only speak for myself accurately, but there are many people, like myself, who found that liberty is most important during thier own miltary lives. There are many great individuals I met throughout my own stint in the military, but it does not make up for the fact that its all smoke and mirrors. You are being used to continue the american empire.

I get the point, i got my T-Shirt, i live it and im proud to be a true American.

How can you be proud of something that you have no control over? I am proud of..... my hair, my eyes, and my skin color.

I am sure you have much of which to be proud. I am sure you have accomplished many truly great things. Do not be proud of the human farm you happen to be born into. This is like "my slaughterhouse is the best because they kill us more humanily".

Rome is a totally different story, maybe you should wiki that.

Rome used the same type of nationalistic signal to outwardly show your allegiance to the emperor and his tyranny. Parallel completed.

and if were state worship, for the state to ban it would be dividing a kingdom against itself - and we all know how that saying goes.

Which is why I brought up this point in my post. I didn't expand on it, but here you go.

The only reason a state would ban something of its own creation is to move forward a parallel agenda. In this example, it could be political correctness (which is the control of syntax) or reactionary fear of nationalism which could make us more susceptable to a big change that we think is good for us, but is the contrary.