NO

as much as i love the thought of aliens and extraterrestrial visitation , i have to believe that what people are experiencing is military operations . i have researched ufos and the paranormal for around twenty years now and i am tired of speculation and odd phenomena on film that doesn't prove anything . i have tried to astral project for said twenty years and still haven't had an experience . i have taken part in magic rituals and never saw anything . this world and these events just don't seem to exist . like i said , don't get me wrong , i would love to see a ufo or a magic ritual work , but that's not going to happen . life does exist out there somewhere but at best it is only advanced as we are . that is the checks and balances of the universe .

reply to post by drell777


Ill have to disagree with you.

I do agree some UFO's that are spotted are likely military, or easily explained away as planes, planets, chinese lanterns, balloons, etc, however I personally believe theres a percentage of UFO's that are spotted that come from elsewhere

Cheers

I was watching a video with Dr Kaku in it the otherday in which he stated:

95% of Ufo sighting can be explained away be military craft, swamp gas, ball lightening, balloons etc etc, but its the 5%that can't that I find scary!

So if thats good enough for a genius like Dr Kaku then its good enough for me.

Peace.
ALS

Well I think some people are being a little paranoid and jumping to conclusions too quickly. But it's like walking through a jungle, and every time you see a vine or tree root, you shout "SNAKE!!", but that doesn't mean snakes aren't real, does it? Same thing with UFOs.

I used to think the same way, till I saw a UFO with my own eyes over the taconic. If the military has crafts like that huge triangle UFO I saw, it would be downright scary. The thing was MASSIVE. On magic, I am not sure really, I have never seen anything magic, I have seen some things that seem superhuman done by people that spent years conditioning their minds and bodies.

reply to post by drell777


I'm sorry you haven't had an astral projection experience OP, but what the hell has that to do with UFO data? Nothing, that's what. I believe in UFO's because I have experienced them first hand, and although I have not had a sighting in years (there seemed to be a UFO flap in my area in the late 90's) I'm still as fascinated with the subject as I ever was.

Now the question, are they ET's or are they Military? Who knows, either way they're still fascinating and I'm inclined to believe that with the manoeuvres some of these things were pulling, I'm not sure we have the technology, our physics and applications are just not there yet.

Nobody i mean nobody knows if these beings are Aliens at all, experiencing the phenom myself "i think" i will NOT call them Aliens unless taken to another planet by them. But nobody knows what they are and many people claim to know but it is always a whim, not contactees or abductees , not researchers probably not even the president. We do know beings of a higher intelligence have been inter acting with civilians and even military officials to some degree. We do know vehicles far beyond our technological capabilities have been buzzing our skies for eons. What they are and where they come from again nobody knows but they are winking in and out of our reality it appears.


I agree MOST UFO sightings are terrestrial man made black budget vehicles. But not all of them, and even the little beings could be a man made product or something we have yet to imagine in to existence. The best you can do is remain neutral like myself. If you become skeptical you tend to end up closed minded and if you jump on that believer band wagon you open yourself to all kinds of disinfo and new age religion crap. There is a TON of cases that defy explanation, you cant just assume it's all Military hardware because it does not equate historically. It may be that these visitors are visiting less frequently or have adapted to avoiding detection perhaps avoiding our military. Or the opposite. Like you i grow weary at times, you just have to keep asking questions and question those who claim to know the answers. Because NOBODY can solve this. That speaks for itself.

reply to post by drell777


I can understand your fustration . Twenty years is a hell of a long time to be delving into a subject , especialy if it does not bare the fruit you hope for. However, I would question any route of investigation which has no basis in firm science.
We now know that the Viking probe which recovered biological data from Mars, did indeed find microbial life on the red planet, and that , coupled with other interesting and suggestive data recovered in very recent times, lends weight to the idea of life on other planets. Science therefore can be considered to have borne more frequent, useful, and verifiable data on the subject of extra terrestrial life, than spiritualism, astral projection, and magic.
The other advantage to the scientific method as a tool for investigating this subject, is that its results are recordable , and of documentary value at a later date, whereas visions, projections, and spell casting have limited use in terms of thier reliability , and thier lack of a decent record of events. Much of what happens in those circles cannot be expirienced , reveiwed , or crucialy proven beyond doubt by anyone outside those circles. Whereas when science proves something, one has only to look into the data as provided, and the evidence from which the data came to either agree with the analysis provided by the scientist, or to form ones own explanation of thier results.
I suppose one could summarise my veiw on this in the following terms. Once time could only be told by watching the sun and moon through their movements in the sky, but science has given us atomic clocks capable of loosing only seconds in millions of years, and the capacity to network our time keeping , making possible all the carefuly planned events that make our world the bustling hive of activity and movement that it is today, from airtravel, to the internet.
Of course this subject will fustrate any determined investigator, since UFO and extraterrestrial intelligence are so mysterious and cowelled in the most utter governmental obsfucation, and misinformation imaginable. But it is only by applying reliable methods, and sharing ones results with the collective that make up the unofficial network of interested parties, that any truth may eventualy come to light. It must also be clear that even if ones determination and method are clearly beyond reproach, that they may come to nothing. Its a big world, and an even bigger universe, and one person cannot discount a possiblitly simply because they cannot prove a reality . If the Wright bros had done such a thing, then man would still be locked to the ground rather than capable of soaring to the edge of the atmosphere and beyond it. Rather than discount entirely the possibility of life elsewhere, just accept that you have not been lucky enough to discover proof of it... yet.

I can understand your point of view, I have seen a triangular craft ( back when I was a young man), it COULD be explained as a secret military craft but very unlikely for what it did , my experience was I saw 3 points of light over where I was in London back in 87/ 88, imagine a triangle with a light at each point, now each of these lights slid down the side at equal speed moving away from the point heading to the next point so all 3 lights were equally spaced.
Now when I shone the torch I had the 3 lights split apart and headed off at high speed as if the triangle was expanding but the lights dispeared after about 300 meters.
So not all can be explained as military as even today no military craft is capable of what I saw, And the experience my mother had when she was a girl cannot be military either, as she claims she was in a very foggy london and there was as what she percieved to be very close a large array of colourful lights that moved and 'danced' as she described it to me. There was no noise either and then the lights simply winked out. Again no military craft would want to advertise its there with bright lights.

As for teh other experiences you've had with the Astral projection if you've been trying for 20 years then maybe your not doing the it the right way? there are lots of techniques out there , try a few and see which work for you as each aer as different as we are.

All other experiences may or may not happen when you want it to, they may not happen straight away, I would like a close encounter with a non terrestrial ( hopefully not the *ahem* probing kind) and have the memory to prove it.
I want to see a magic ritual work as well , but its never going to be like it is on TV with lights and smoke, Magic is not to be taken lightly as the effects of it as not really visable otherwise we'd all have a golden chalice that rained gold coins when we wanted it.
Magic from my experience does work but not in the material form we all see on the telly but more in the karmic spriitual form that benefits us more.

Like others who have seen strange objects do impossible things I'm a firm knower.. there's more but no need to go into it now.

With meditation and astral journeys, I found not everyone does these things easily. Men in particular can find it difficult to have an unarguable experience, especially if they are strongly logical thinkers or highly critical in most facets of life. It's a matter of not letting go of control over the mind's thoughts despite needing to focus on specific intent. For some it's almost as if their Mind is what they Believe they are and so cannot relax into the experience mentally.

After noticing these insanely strange lights in the sky above my house, [words cant describe them,] I too concluded that they were high tech military crafts. After them showing up CONSTANTLY, literally, every single night, all hours of the night, I just had to ditch that answer.

I probably wouldn't believe this if I had read someone else type this, but do yourself a favor man, i know its cold, but actually go outside and watch the sky for 10 minutes. I really believe anyone can see these if they would just check out the skies instead of youtube. Theyre real and theyre all over here. [Lower Hudson Valley]

Actually just last night, I watched one single light, or craft, kind of shoot out these 3 smaller ones. Besides it being mind blowing when you see this with your own eyes, I noticed the smaller crafts actually had some blinking lights on them. They didnt blink at any set rate but every now and then there'd be an extremely bright flash of white light from them as they fly around the sky. Point being I wouldnt have ever thought those were anything other than planes if I hadnt seen them come from this bigger light. You may have seen some and not even known it.

The existence of UFOs will all be common knowledge some day soon. Everyone should have a chance to see these. Lets hope we have enough time for them to reveal themselves. You don't need a scientist in a white coat to speak to make something the truth. 'Truth is not disclosed but realized.' LOOK AT THE SKIES!

Originally posted by drell777
as much as i love the thought of aliens and extraterrestrial visitation , i have to believe that what people are experiencing is military operations .

You don't have to, you choose to. That's the nice thing about belief - you get to pick.

I suggest you read Leslie Kean's book UFOs- Generals, Pilots & Government Officials Go On the Record. It was just published last year and has some very compelling reasons why it doesn't make sense that these sightings are not related to Earthly military.

Originally posted by Unknown Soldier
We do know beings of a higher intelligence have been inter acting with civilians and even military officials to some degree.

We do?

How do we know this?

Originally posted by drell777
as much as i love the thought of aliens and extraterrestrial visitation , i have to believe that what people are experiencing is military operations .

what people what experiences? Are you talking about abductions, sightings or both?

i have researched ufos and the paranormal for around twenty years now and i am tired of speculation and odd phenomena on film that doesn't prove anything . i have tried to astral project for said twenty years and still haven't had an experience . i have taken part in magic rituals and never saw anything . this world and these events just don't seem to exist . like i said , don't get me wrong , i would love to see a ufo or a magic ritual work , but that's not going to happen . life does exist out there somewhere but at best it is only advanced as we are . that is the checks and balances of the universe .

So you cannot "astral project" and perform magic so alien UFOs are not real? I just don't get it, just because you spend 20 years researching something rare does not meat you get put on a list to see it.

Originally posted by drell777
as much as i love the thought of aliens and extraterrestrial visitation , i have to believe that what people are experiencing is military operations . i have researched ufos and the paranormal for around twenty years now and i am tired of speculation and odd phenomena on film that doesn't prove anything . i have tried to astral project for said twenty years and still haven't had an experience . i have taken part in magic rituals and never saw anything . this world and these events just don't seem to exist . like i said , don't get me wrong , i would love to see a ufo or a magic ritual work , but that's not going to happen . life does exist out there somewhere but at best it is only advanced as we are . that is the checks and balances of the universe .

You are describing an occult fruit basket but for you those fruits are never in-season. Perhaps you just don't live in the tropics where those things are grown. Not to worry, if you are good at being a "normal" that can very much be to your benefit, it is not always comfortable living in the outer limits. You may just begin to see some of these things once you quit looking for them.

There would not be anything mysterious about these things if they happened to everyone. I consider myself fortunate that most of what you describe has never happened to me. Some of those strange animals are very fascinating to read about but if you get too close they do bite.

reply to post by drell777


Yep tday military is highly involved, and i agree man is doing alot of this.

But what about pre 1950's?

reply to post by Arbitrageur

Originally posted by Arbitrageur

Originally posted by Unknown Soldier
We do know beings of a higher intelligence have been inter acting with civilians and even military officials to some degree.

We do?

How do we know this?

We don't know this. We only know that ex-military or research workers have testified that they know this - as far as I'm aware.

Unknown Soldier, if you know different, you have to let us know how...


reply to post by TrueBrit

Originally posted by TrueBrit
We now know that the Viking probe which recovered biological data from Mars, did indeed find microbial life on the red planet, and that , coupled with other interesting and suggestive data recovered in very recent times, lends weight to the idea of life on other planets.

What biological data??? The Viking probe detected organics. In science/chemistry, organic compounds are just ones containing carbon NOT ones from living things. I have tried to explain the difference in this post on another thread.

Originally posted by Pimander

Originally posted by discl0sur3
I love this quote. *haha* Is organic not biological?

Not when the noun organics is used.

noun (usually organics)
1 a food produced by organic farming.
2 an organic chemical compound.

Oxford Dictionaries

I doubt they were talking about organic vegetables so here's the definition of organic compound.

An organic compound is any member of a large class of gaseous, liquid, or solid chemical compounds whose molecules contain carbon.
See here

So if the Viking lander detected organics, that does not mean life. So do we know there is microbial or any other life on Mars?

Regarding UFOs - why not keep an open mind?

I wish I could go outside and look - but here - the sky at night is a dull orange. It's never really dark here, I am in a giant urban area, light pollution is indeed real anyway. And other pollution floating about - makes a nice soupy grey orange opaque sky. Erg. You can see some planes and etc, that's about it.

I was thinking about UFOs the other day while reading about all these birds dying. People speculate that it could be "spraying" "chemtrails", things like this, gov screwing with the weather...

So I was thinking - what if the gov is really screwing with the weather? That it's beyond crop dusting planes spraying chemicals and/or some kind of HAARP thing blasting out 'waves'? What if - these "UFOs" are some kind of government super sophisticated weather altering machines?

But then again - people mention "massive" super ships being sighted - would some kind of 'weather machine' need to be that big? Probably not *that* big.

Some flying machines could be also "working" on geological things too.

I don't know. Just some crazy thoughts. Who knows *what* UFOs are - but - I believe they could be anything and try to keep an open mind. I have never seen any myself, but I have known others who have and these are level headed people and I trust their veracity.

Ah, I'm just thinking about something now - I *wish* I could see one.... So I was coming home once on this plane - it was daytime here but very cloudy and overcast. I was looking out the plane window and could not see anything until the plane nearly landed - and it seemed as if we were *right on top of* an expressway. It was right before we landed, that I could see.

So I'm imagining - with the various hazes, clouds, air and light pollution here - to see a UFO - the thing would have to be close to *right on top of you*. Wouldn't that be creepy? To see one that way? Look up and there it is - hovering right over your head?

I like to read the stories here of sincere sightings. There's alot of UFO BS all over the net, you have to wade through alot to find the truly intriguing.