Possible Major Gamma Ray Burst Around 1400 B.C. During Time of Exodus

Originally posted by Stargate2012

Originally posted by St Udio
reply to post by Sinter Klaas

 

in any case, the 1,400 bce date sounds rather recent for the exodus...is that a proven time slot?

Yes it is well known the Exodus and the Plagues of Egypt happened around 1400 B.C.

Given that there isn't a single shred of evidence for the Exodus, nor for the existence of Moses (other than the Torah,) you're blowing a whole lot of worthless smoke out of a particularly odiferous orifice here.

Don't think that we don't know this.

Harte

In April 1940, Velikovsky was first struck by the idea that a great natural catastrophe had taken place at the time of the Israelites' Exodus from Egypt - a time when plagues occurred, the Sea of Passage parted, Mt. Sinai erupted, and the pillar of cloud and fire moved in the sky. Velikovsky wondered: Does any Egyptian record of a similar catastrophe exist? He found the answer in an obscure papyrus stored in Leiden in the Netherlands - the lamentations of an Egyptian sage, Ipuwer. The Ipuwer Papyrus, Velikovsky became convinced, parallels the Book of Exodus, describing the same natural catastrophe, the same plagues. As a result he began to reconstruct ancient Middle Eastern history, taking this catastrophe - which brought the downfall of the Egyptian Middle Kingdom - as a starting point from which to synchronize the histories of Egypt and Israel. He titled his work Ages in Chaos.

The cause of the catastrophe terminating the Middle Kingdom remained unexplained. One afternoon in October, 1940, Velikovsky noticed an important fact: the Book of Joshua describes a destructive shower of meteorites occurring before the sun "stood still," in the sky. Could this be a coincidence, or were the ancients recording a cosmic disturbance that must have shaken the entire Earth and might have been related to the upheavals approximately 50 years earlier during the Exodus? A survey of other sources around the world convinced Velikovsky that a global cataclysm had indeed overtaken the Earth, and that Venus played a decisive role in that cataclysm. For ten years he researched and wrote Ages in Chaos and Worlds in Collision. He had by now taken up permanent residence in the United States.

www.fact-index.com...

Originally posted by Harte

Originally posted by Stargate2012

Originally posted by St Udio
reply to post by Sinter Klaas

 

in any case, the 1,400 bce date sounds rather recent for the exodus...is that a proven time slot?

Yes it is well known the Exodus and the Plagues of Egypt happened around 1400 B.C.

Given that there isn't a single shred of evidence for the Exodus, nor for the existence of Moses (other than the Torah,) you're blowing a whole lot of worthless smoke out of a particularly odiferous orifice here.

Don't think that we don't know this.

Harte

LOL

reply to post by Stargate2012


What they saw was in the heart of the scorpion/scorpius constellation.

Scorpius is directly across from Orion in the sky.

1.bp.blogspot.com...

And wormwood comes from the direction from Orion.



Amos
5

7 Ye who turn judgment to wormwood, and leave off righteousness in the earth,
8 seek him that maketh the seven stars and Ori'on, Job. 9.9 ; 38.31 and turneth the shadow of death into the morning, and maketh the day dark with night: that calleth for the waters of the sea, and poureth them out upon the face of the earth: The LORD is his name:
9 that strengtheneth the spoiled against the strong, so that the spoiled shall come against the fortress.
10 ¶ They hate him that rebuketh in the gate, and they abhor him that speaketh uprightly.
11 Forasmuch therefore as your treading is upon the poor, and ye take from him burdens of wheat: ye have built houses of hewn stone, but ye shall not dwell in them; ye have planted pleasant vineyards, but ye shall not drink wine of them.
12 For I know your manifold transgressions and your mighty sins: they afflict the just, they take a bribe, and they turn aside the poor in the gate from their right.
13 Therefore the prudent shall keep silence in that time; for it is an evil time.
14 ¶ Seek good, and not evil, that ye may live: and so the LORD, the God of hosts, shall be with you, as ye have spoken.
15 Hate the evil, and love the good, and establish judgment in the gate: it may be that the LORD God of hosts will be gracious unto the remnant of Joseph.
16 ¶ Therefore the LORD, the God of hosts, the Lord, saith thus; Wailing shall be in all streets; and they shall say in all the highways, Alas! alas! and they shall call the husbandman to mourning, and such as are skilful of lamentation to wailing.
17 And in all vineyards shall be wailing: for I will pass through thee, saith the LORD.
18 ¶ Woe unto you that desire the day of the LORD! to what end is it for you? the day of the LORD is darkness, and not light.
19 As if a man did flee from a lion, and a bear met him; or went into the house, and leaned his hand on the wall, and a serpent bit him.
20 Shall not the day of the LORD be darkness, and not light? even very dark, and no brightness in it?
21 ¶ I hate, I despise your feast days, and I will not smell in your solemn assemblies.
22 Though ye offer me burnt offerings and your meat offerings, I will not accept them; neither will I regard the peace offerings of your fat beasts. Is. 1.11-14
23 Take thou away from me the noise of thy songs; for I will not hear the melody of thy viols.
24 But let judgment run down as waters, and righteousness as a mighty stream.
25 ¶ Have ye offered unto me sacrifices and offerings in the wilderness forty years, O house of Israel?

The Proverbs
5
4 but her end is bitter as wormwood,

sharp as a two-edged sword.

Wormwood is known as a bitter tasting planet or bitter herb.

en.wikipedia.org...(genus)

And look at this!

The Fourth Book of Moses, Called
Numbers
9
10 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If any man of you or of your posterity shall be unclean by reason of a dead body, or be in a journey afar off, yet he shall keep the passover unto the LORD.
11 The fourteenth day of the second month at even they shall keep it, and eat it with unleavened bread and bitter herbs.
12 They shall leave none of it unto the morning, nor break any bone of it: according to all the ordinances of the passover they shall keep it.

The Second Book of Moses, Called
Exodus
12

The Passover
8 And they shall eat the flesh in that night, roast with fire, and unleavened bread; and with bitter herbs they shall eat it.
9 Eat not of it raw, nor sodden at all with water, but roast with fire; his head with his legs, and with the purtenance thereof.
10 And ye shall let nothing of it remain until the morning; and that which remaineth of it until the morning ye shall burn with fire.
11 And thus shall ye eat it; with your loins girded, your shoes on your feet, and your staff in your hand; and ye shall eat it in haste: it is the LORD's passover.
12 For I will pass through the land of Egypt this night, and will smite all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast; and against all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgment: I am the LORD.

Here is what could have happened. Around 1600 B.C. - 1450 B.C. something collided with Jupiter, and tore off a piece of its structure. Thus creating what we see today, the Great Red Spot on Jupiter where the other planet came from, and that would be Venus. Venus is extremely hot, volcanic in nature which would suggest a possible collision that happened around 3500 years ago. It also rotates backwards, unlike any other planet in our solar system which further suggest a collision aspect.

Or Venus collided with Jupiter tearing off a piece of Jupiter and creating the Red Spot, and a second planet/dwarf planet known as Wormwood/Planet X/Nibiriu

Originally posted by Stargate2012
Here is what could have happened. Around 1600 B.C. - 1450 B.C. something collided with Jupiter, and tore off a piece of its structure. Thus creating what we see today, the Great Red Spot on Jupiter where the other planet came from, and that would be Venus.

Leads one to wonder what ancient people were seeing that they were calling Venus back before 1600 BC then, wouldn't it.

Harte

reply to post by Harte


Changed my opinion or theory on that. Perhaps it was around 3113 B.C. that it happened, the start of the Mayan Long Count calendar.

We thus encountered Venus's comet tail around 1450 B.C. and that had some serious consequences on Earth.

Very intriguing theory this man came up with!

The book proposed that around the 15th century BCE, a comet or comet-like object (now called the planet Venus), having originally been ejected from Jupiter, passed near Earth (an actual collision is not mentioned). The object changed Earth's orbit and axis, causing innumerable catastrophes which were mentioned in early mythologies and religions around the world. Fifty-two years later, it passed close by again, stopping the Earth's rotation for a while and causing more catastrophes. Then, in the 8th and 7th centuries BCE, Mars (itself displaced by Venus) made close approaches to the Earth; this incident caused a new round of disturbances and disasters. After that, the current "celestial order" was established. The courses of the planets stabilized over the centuries and Venus gradually became a "normal" planet.

www.velikovsky.info...

www.redicecreations.com...

A related forum to it

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Pillar of Fire/Pillar of Cloud during Exodus would suggest a comet passing by. The comet of Venus?

The Second Book of Moses, Called
Exodus
13

The Pillar of Cloud and the Pillar of Fire
17 ¶ And it came to pass, when Pharaoh had let the people go, that God led them not through the way of the land of the Philistines, although that was near; for God said, Lest peradventure the people repent when they see war, and they return to Egypt:
18 but God led the people about, through the way of the wilderness of the Red sea: and the children of Israel went up harnessed out of the land of Egypt.
19 And Moses took the bones of Joseph with him: for he had straitly sworn the children of Israel, saying, God will surely visit you; and ye shall carry up my bones away hence with you. Gen. 50.25 · Josh. 24.32
20 And they took their journey from Succoth, and encamped in Etham, in the edge of the wilderness.
21 And the LORD went before them by day in a pillar of a cloud, to lead them the way; and by night in a pillar of fire, to give them light; to go by day and night.
22 He took not away the pillar of the cloud by day, nor the pillar of fire by night, from before the people.

In 1940, Velikovsky studied a number of natural disasters that occur in the Bible, such as the parting of the Red Sea and the eruption of Mt. Sinai. When he compared these biblical passages to similar entries in some obscure Egyptian texts, he became convinced they were describing the same catastrophes, and went about reconstructing ancient Middle Eastern time-lines to make both sides fit.

After studying other historical records, he became convinced that many catastrophes were linked to a single global cataclysm, and that Venus was involved. In 1939 he shifted to the United States and for the next ten years he researched these topics, the result being two separate books: Ages in Chaos - a historical reconstruction covering the years 1450 BC to 840 B.C, and Worlds in Collision.

In 1950 Macmillan published Worlds in Collision. It described how 3,500 years ago Venus was ejected from Jupiter as a comet - then started a wayward path through the solar system. Its gravitational field moved other planets out of their orbits or affected their rotation - including Earth's. Macmillan, who publish many textbooks, came under fire from scientists and academics who considered Velikovsky's ideas to be unacceptable - ideas at odds with uniformitarianism. The book was consequently banned from many academic institutions. Although it was at the top of the New York Times non-fiction bestseller list, Macmillan gave in and transferred the book to Doubleday. In 1952 Doubleday pub1ished Velikovsky's Ages in Chaos.

As an answer to his critics, Velikovsky's third book, Earth in Upheaval (1955), presented raw data that would validate any global cataclysm theory:

"I have excluded from [these pages] all references to ancient literature, traditions, and folklore; and this I have done with intent, so that careless critics cannot decry the entire work as "tales and legends". Stones and bones are the only witness."[4]

It was fully referenced and designed to gain the support of orthodox science - however academia had already determined that anything he ever wrote would automatically be unacceptable.

Meanwhile Velikovsky had been maintaining contact with Einstein - he would send him letters and manuscripts and Einstein would return them, usually with comments written in the margins. With regards to Earth in Upheaval, Einstein accepted all the evidence of sudden violence upon the Earth, but he rejected Venus as being the cause. Nine days after their final meeting Einstein died, and a copy of Worlds in Collision was found open on his desk. He was rereading it because latest discoveries concerning Jupiter had confirmed one of Velikovsky's predictions.

survive2012.com...

Very intriguing!

www.darkstar1.co.uk...

There's a few missing facts in this thread:

#1 -- You can't see gamma ray bursts. They're in an electromagnetic spectrum that we can't perceive (except with gamma ray telescopes.)
en.wikipedia.org...

#2 -- The closest star to the Sun is Proxima Centauri. It hasn't shown any significant gamma radiation

#3 -- the Inverse square law applies to gamma rays. The farther out you go, the less the dose. At twice the "lethal range" limit you would get 1/4th the dose of "ground zero." At 3 times the range of the lethal limit you get 1/9th... etc.

#4 -- no star/sun/major body has passed close to Earth (within the orbit of the moon.)

#5 -- there is no evidence of Exodus, and in fact there is almost no evidence that any people from Israel were in Egypt at any time. The only Jewish artifacts are from a scribe who wrote traditional spells against snakes in Hebrew in hieroglyphs.

So we wouldn't have gotten much of a dose. The star would be quite some distance away (the nearest supernova remnants are very far beyond the closest star.)

reply to post by Byrd


Ok, agree with you on #1, #2, #3, #4,

#5, I don't need any evidence to believe it happened. Was it a parable in the Bible? some lie? or an actual event? I choose to believe and have faith it was an actual event regardless of any physical sort of evidence.

Thus I would then suggest what was seen at that time was the comet of Venus.

I believe then the collision of a brown dwarf star or a dark star hit Jupiter around 3113 B.C. (start of the Mayan Calendar) and Venus was born from it.

Originally posted by Stargate2012
Thus I would then suggest what was seen at that time was the comet of Venus.

Well, people were writing and drawing at that time period, and there's no record of such a thing. The orbit of Venus is not that of a captured comet (captured comets have very elliptical orbits.)

I believe then the collision of a brown dwarf star or a dark star hit Jupiter around 3113 B.C. (start of the Mayan Calendar) and Venus was born from it.

Brown dwarf stars are roughly half the size of our own sun, and weigh 50 times more than Jupiter. They are never found near stars the size of ours... and there are none for several parsecs (one parsec is about 3 1/4 light year) from us.
www.nasa.gov...

Jupiter's a gas giant, made up mostly of gas. A brown dwarf/dark star/black dwarf hitting Jupiter would be like a 16 wheeler truck hitting a squirrel.

Originally posted by Byrd
#3 -- the Inverse square law applies to gamma rays. The farther out you go, the less the dose. At twice the "lethal range" limit you would get 1/4th the dose of "ground zero." At 3 times the range of the lethal limit you get 1/9th... etc.

All true, but a couple of other things are true as well.

A GRB is a narrowly focused beam of gamma energy lasting as much as ten seconds (maybe longer) shooting out over millions of light years in alignment with the poles of the supernova. Ergo, the beam would have to be aimed right at Earth in order for us to be affected by the GRB.

A GRB aimed at Earth at a range of a thousand light years would kill everything on the planet in a matter of minutes. That's how powerful these suckers are.
7500 light years would kill us all too, It would take a lot longer, but we'd die just the same - except we'd know we were going to die.

It's not likely there has been one at any time in humanity's past. Supernovas, yes. GRB's, no. I mean, we're still here, right?

Harte

reply to post by Harte


I posted it :

3.262 light years

that would eliminate half of the atmosphere. in a link on the 1st page

Originally posted by Harte
A GRB is a narrowly focused beam of gamma energy lasting as much as ten seconds (maybe longer) shooting out over millions of light years in alignment with the poles of the supernova. Ergo, the beam would have to be aimed right at Earth in order for us to be affected by the GRB.

Less, actually, than 10 seconds as a rule but yes, it would have to be aimed right at us.

A GRB aimed at Earth at a range of a thousand light years would kill everything on the planet in a matter of minutes. That's how powerful these suckers are.

I looked up the source of these claims, and find that they're from an astronomer named Melott (who has enough credentials to satisfy picky me that he knows what he's talking about.) However, after reading Melott's paper I'm a tiny bit skeptical of it killing everything in a matter of minutes -- and in fact, he doesn't say that it will although he says that if the right strength and light combination showed up, the equivalent of life-threatening sunburn would occur only on the side of the planet facing the burst (the rest of the planet would suffer from atmospheric effects eventually but not direct death.)
ir.washburnlaw.edu...

It's not likely there has been one at any time in humanity's past. Supernovas, yes. GRB's, no. I mean, we're still here, right?

That's hard to say. They're estimating one in this galaxy every 100,000 years (events in other galaxies wouldn't impact us at all.) Given a 500 million year history of life on Earth, that would mean that there's been about 5,000 of these during that period.

He bases his model on the modern ozone layer (and he admits that further study is needed about the atmospheric composition of the Ordovician) and is proposing a slow extinction (he does touch on acid rain, but says that the amounts produced by such a hypothetical event are negligible) -- basically what gets hammered according to his model is the simplest types of ocean lifeforms.

It's quite an interesting paper and does appear to have been trotted past a number of paleontologists, which is a real plus for it.

So... (having gone through this interesting diversion) a Gamma Ray Burst event (if it happened) could to lead to a drastic collapse of the food chain starting at the plankton level as well as a much slower destruction among land forms. With the destruction of the plankton, the atmospheric oxygen content would change.

You're correct -- humans (and most other life forms) wouldn't have survived one.

We probably could survive one now, thanks to our technology, but it would be really touch and go for a long time and it'd be a struggle to maintain a biotic diversity. That'd make an interesting science fiction novel.