Lucifer

For all the christians on this site hear me out. Lucifer (what you believe synomonus with Satan) means "Light - bearer". So if you make a thread about satan use devil or satan please. "Light bearer" is a refrence to venus.

groan

There are many different references and meanings associated with Satan -yes even Venus (Light Bearer), ((Satan)), (((evil one))), ((((Abaddon)))), (((((Angel Of Light))))), and so on and so forth.

This thread doesn't make any sense. If "light bearer" is important to the thread, obviously they can use the term in the title.

The term Light Bearer comes in just as many forms as Satan does, some associated with Light and some with Dark --all depends on which stage of his existence we are referring to.

reply to post by Camtheconspiracyman


Umm. K?

Do we have an etymology thread? This probably belongs there. Perhaps you should study some linguistics. If you did, you'd know that the usage of a word in a particular fashion facilitates the descriptive definition of that word, which (for most people), is quite enough to warrant an acceptable use of that word to signify the definition associated with it.

While the definition of "Lucifer" in terms of "Light-Bearer" is certainly the prescriptive definition of the word, a descriptive definition is synonymous with "Satan" or "a devil".

Because all human communication is built on a system of prescriptive and descriptive definitions of words which are each used at different, but very distinct, times, I believe that someone's usage of that word to mean either definition is quite satisfactory.

Thoughts?

wow i think this guy here just got done watchin
an episode of brad melzers "decoded."
but yeah great thread blah blah blah

Even the bible talks about Satan/Lucifer, not as a monster but as an angel/demon of light. This is because of his symbolic appearance. supossedly he pretends to be a good guy..... shhhhhhhh dont tell anyone

Lucifer does mean the light bearer or the bringer of light, the light he brings symbolizes knowledge and truth, it was lucifer who saved us from the opressive god of the old testament ( rex mundi) lucifer = knowledge = power and the old testement god was jealous when he found out that lucifer had enlightend us and we were his equal lucifer is not evil but the old testement god is a jealous unforgiving tyrant, Jesus told us to ignore the teacheings of the old testement and to love one another to forgive to tolerate, he never told us to kill for god or make war in his name, unlkie the old testement god who seemed to enjoy a good war with a bit of genocide thrown in to boot, lucifer is the light bringer lucifer is the candle in the darkness lucifer is good and holy...

reply to post by Lucifersjester


How do you see lucifer? Do you see him as an equal to the biblical God YHWH? Do you see him as an ex-subordinate to YHWH? What is Lucifer's origin in your eyes? I am curious aabout this.

When Peter himself I believe it was, tried to admonish Jesus not to go to Jerusalem and allow himself to be killed, under any circumstances, Jesus said to him - "get thee behind me Satan", and then said that the desciple was thinking "not as God thinks, but as man thinks." In this way, he was referring to Satan as a base way of thinking, something purely selfish, and self interested, without the larger context (how God thinks) driven by love, or even by his desciple's mind being hijacked, and using the body to speak.
Lucifer, if meaning light bearer of truth and knowledge, could easily apply to Jesus himself, but only from that perspective, unless said light bearer was also a deciever, in which case Jesus was not a type of Lucifer.

But it's possible, that there is always one out there somewhere who thinks he's God and who is no friend of mankind, and who's interest is always driven by a rebellion against the authority of God. Such a being could even have access to unfathomable technologies.

I've even considered that when upon the cross, and Jesus cried out "father father, why have you forsaken me?!", that for a moment, it was not that God was too righteous to look upon his own son (in spirit), carrying all sin and evil, or from the POV of the son taking that on, but instead, a Demiurge, who, once Jesus was safely "done away with", attempted, at that precise moment of Jesus' greatest vulnerability, to alleviate him of all power and authority, and tranfer that into his accounts, only to realize, too late - that the REAL GOD OF LOVE, was standing in another frame of reference unknown to Satan (enemy of God and man), bearing witness, one last time, to Satan's untrusworthiness (trying to steal Jesus' power and authority), and so for Jesus, God "kicked back in again" at Satan's cosmic shame, and everything was then transfered into Christ's account, the "strong man" bound at THAT moment, but not a moment before, the devil tricked by his own blindspot (thinking he alone was God!). An ingenious ploy by the true God of Love and Life, to provide that much rope for the devil to hang or BIND himself with..

Why do I think this? Because God is omnipotent, and would not abandon his son at his greatest moment of difficulty, nope, one tried to leave him there with nothing, but yet another was observing...praise the God above all! Think about THAT!

Or, that was Jesus simply experiencing the separation due the sinner, but there was more to it than that, I am convinced, something involving the highest levels of observation and awareness that are possible..

Changes everything, and this is why I maintain to this day, that, all the treasure is in Jesus Christ, and the treasure is his love . Anything else is from the evil one, if there is such a one - and from the perspective of Jesus Christ, there is no satan (even with a small s), and that's the beauty of the Christian frame - the reframe, removing satan from the picture, and in the end leaving just a flow of life and two trees of life in the midst of a new creation, a new heaven, and a new earth and an upright and liberated human being, through the Great Work of All Ages, the Magnum Opus of Jesus Christ.

The talking snake in the garden btw - that was the inevitable rise of kundalini, a "technology" surely mastered by any "Satan" or power or principality steeped in the use of occult symbology, covert technology and manipulation, and of the making of self into God, attempting to frame God himself out of the picture (God of spirit and love as the Absolute), the definition of insanity really, since who would ever ursurp the power and authority, of GOD, it's impossible.

So Jesus was and IS (in spirit) a great protector of mankind, a security Guard of love, who did what was neccessary, and who was vindicated by his true father of spirit and love in the end, at the devil's expense in so very many ways.. a triumph in eternity, waiting for us, to resolve all issues, with both justice, and mercy, truth, and wisdom, and love. Nothing else.

It still goes on to this day, the devil running around from person to person, like a lion in search of people to devour. "He" is wrecking havok with a street person I know, and care about, and this individual's torment, is almost on part with that of Job himself. It's very serious and not purely rooted in mental illness alone, this guy's under satanic attack and has been for years. It happens. It does happen. He even came for me but I alluded his wiley ways with the help of petition and prayer, and by the willingness to really examine this entire spiritual controvery at length, and in depth, not an easy thing to do let me tell you! Dark night of the soul anyone..? I've been there, done that, got the t-shirt as they say. Then I eventually report back my findings, here at ATS of all places, the readership here is large, wise and well informed, so it works well for me as a medium of communication.

Best Regards,

The Bride of Christ
(tired of whoring around, preparing to make a family at last!)

Originally posted by Lucifersjester
Lucifer does mean the light bearer or the bringer of light, the light he brings symbolizes knowledge and truth, it was lucifer who saved us from the opressive god of the old testament ( rex mundi) lucifer = knowledge = power and the old testement god was jealous when he found out that lucifer had enlightend us and we were his equal lucifer is not evil but the old testement god is a jealous unforgiving tyrant, Jesus told us to ignore the teacheings of the old testement and to love one another to forgive to tolerate, he never told us to kill for god or make war in his name, unlkie the old testement god who seemed to enjoy a good war with a bit of genocide thrown in to boot, lucifer is the light bringer lucifer is the candle in the darkness lucifer is good and holy...

If you have no grasp whatsoever of Genesis 6 you'll not understand anything in the OT.

reply to post by Camtheconspiracyman
Camtheconspiracyman,

Your are totally right in that assessment. He wants to be seen as the illuminated one and light bearer, but is darkness and no light in him. We should and must not be a part of spreading any spark of idea that he is light. I think some versions of the Bible read wrong that he is but the KJV has it right. -,

Re 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

Then RE He tells us, "he that overcomeeth" -
Re 2:28 And I will give him the morning star.

Let's all walk that fine line and give nothing to the destroyer.

Truthiron.

Originally posted by truthiron
reply to post by Camtheconspiracyman

 

Camtheconspiracyman,

Your are totally right in that assessment. He wants to be seen as the illuminated one and light bearer, but is darkness and no light in him. We should and must not be a part of spreading any spark of idea that he is light. I think some versions of the Bible read wrong that he is but the KJV has it right. -,

Re 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

Then RE He tells us, "he that overcomeeth" -
Re 2:28 And I will give him the morning star.

Let's all walk that fine line and give nothing to the destroyer.

Truthiron.

This context is very confusing Truthiron. Just to clarify, are you saying that the morning star referenced in Revelations is or is not, Lucifer? Could you please clarify that, thanks. Let there be no confusion in this, and, let us remember that there is no Satan and no devil, in Christ Jesus.

reply to post by NewAgeMan
NewAgeMan,

In no uncertain terms is Satan the one Jesus is telling us "He" is. I posted the verses.-

Re 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

Then RE He tells us, "he that overcomeeth" -
Re 2:28 And I will give him the morning star.

Jesus tell the overcomers here he gives to them the "morning star", here is all three verses -

Re 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
Re 2:27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.
Re 2:28 And I will give him the morning star.

Truthiron.

reply to post by truthiron


Again, confusion, as Satan is not Lucifer, and Jesus is the spirit and love of God who bound the strong man, and like I said who framed the evil one right out of the picture.

Those references in Revelations point to the Light Bearing aspects of Christ, and to the Jupiter aspect, which is also known as the king of the planets.

Let us not confuse these things c'mon man. Never call good evil and evil good, that's absurd.

reply to post by NewAgeMan
NewAgeMan,

How on earth can I make it plainer to you, Satan is darkness and Jesus Christ is the light.

Satan wants men to believe he is the illuminated one and he is the spreader of the darkness, lies, that man loves to hear. He, satan was a liar from the beginning.

What is confusing about Jesus's statement here. -

Re 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

I must leave you with your idea of what I am saying and mean.

Truthiron.

reply to post by Epsilon5



Nicely said, and I agree with your post. Not much more that I can add to that rebuttal.

However, suppose the Serpent, Devil, Satan, and Lucifer are not the same entity. When you gather all of the various Biblical references, the context doesn't seem to make logical sense that they are all the same entity.

Mercury is Adam
Venus is Eve.

Adam and Eve is Hermaphrodite

Mercury is Hermes
Venus is Aphrodite.

Mercury is Osiris
Venus is Isis.

Mercury and Venus are the fallen ones.

Happy new year



Lucifer is the mother of Mankind and the sperm of Uranus.

reply to post by truthiron

I always thought of Satan, not as darkness, or the polar opposite of light, since I don't believe in the game of black and white or try to play that game, since what you resist persists and there's no real freedom there, but instead as a destructive enemy of man and God, and the rebellious will that wants to be God or to replace God.

My confusion was over the reference to the bright and morning star, which many think of as Lucifer, as there is another reference in the Bible to the fallen one as the morning star.

Interestingly, Buddha was said to see the morning star at his enlightenment, so the "morning star" seem to refer to enlightenment, and perhaps the planet Jupiter.

I'm not confused, but your statements have been confusing.



P.S. I will repeat that there is no satan in Christ, and thus for those in Christ with Christ in them, satan is something passing away with the old world, with no use and no function, no purpose. So for those who are becoming increasingly emmersed in the kingdom life, satan is of no concern, and is tread under foot.

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by truthiron

 

I always thought of Satan, not as darkness, or the polar opposite of light, since I don't believe in the game of black and white or try to play that game, since what you resist persists and there's no real freedom there, but instead as a destructive enemy of man and God, and the rebellious will that wants to be God or to replace God.

My confusion was over the reference to the bright and morning star, which many think of as Lucifer, as there is another reference in the Bible to the fallen one as the morning star.

Interestingly, Buddha was said to see the morning star at his enlightenment, so the "morning star" seem to refer to enlightenment, and perhaps the planet Jupiter.

I'm not confused, but your statements have been confusing.



P.S. I will repeat that there is no satan in Christ, and thus for those in Christ with Christ in them, satan is something passing away with the old world, with no use and no function, no purpose. So for those who are becoming increasingly emmersed in the kingdom life, satan is of no concern, and is tread under foot.

edit on 31-12-2010 by NewAgeMan because: (no reason given)

Christ will give to the overcomer "the morning star" and they will be enlightened...

For sure there is no Satan in Christ, Christ was his Creator. The problem came about when Satan put Christ down and rebelled.

I have never given the idea here or anywhere that I believe Satan to be the "bright and morning star". No doubt there was a time before Satan rebelled that he basked in illumination. He was the highest of the angels and drew one third of them into his web of lies and rebellion.

In doing a search just now in the KJV of the whole Bible the only two hits for "morning star" are these two.-

Re 2:28 And I will give him the morning star.
Re 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

Right from the beginning I was in agreeance with the OP.

The Truth sets us free.

Truthiron.

were not talking about satan, we are talkin about lucifer, lucifer is not satan he is not evil,