Is Vatican control by Illuminati??

Are you still talking bout the same thing? What 13 families?

The 13 families are from a book by a man named Fritz Springmeier. You can read about it here
webpages.shepherd.edu...

As for the discussion of this thread, I don't see why there are people here that are so sure that the Illuminati does not exist. And also theres people out there who are sure that the Illuminati does exist. I do not agree with either of those people who say it does exist or it does not exist. I am intrested in the Illuminati conspiracy and I research anything related to it. I don't know if they exist or not but I'm always looking for the answer. Theres a lot of information out there that there may be an Illuminati and a lot of information that there may not be an Illuminati. I have an open mind about both beliefs and I will always look for the answer.

[edit on 7-8-2004 by +Caspian+]

[edit on 7-8-2004 by +Caspian+]

[edit on 7-8-2004 by +Caspian+]

I'm not saying they exist or don't exist. I do, like I said before, think that there is an "unseen power" but I think it has alot more to do with money and control over people's lives to preserve the lifestyle of those in power, both behind the scenes and their puppets. "Illuminati"? I don't know, but I do know there's something going on that doesn't sit well with me.

Basically, no matter what regular folks like you and me serve our purpose to "them", nothing we really say or do is going to change anything. Unless, of course, the people rise up against the government, but then what?

It's the same way it's always been, and it's going to stay the same. History pretty much has proven that, wouldn't you say?

Alchemist -

I have to highly recommend the book "Rulers of Evil" by Tupper Saussy. It is an in depth and very enlightening examination of the unwritten history of the Jesuit control of the vatican and an explanation of the interaction between the church, the secret societies, political intelligence networks, characters and forces that gave birth to the American republic, and the founding of our "New Rome".

tuppersaussy.com...

I would have to say that the leaders of the existing round table groups (CFR, TC, et. al) are whom I would consider to be the "illuminati" of today.

Are they powerful? ...yes
Are they secretive ...yes
Are they rich? ... yes
Do they control the printing of money and the manipulation of global finance? ...yes.
Do they brainwash us through manipulation of culture and the media? ...yes
Are they privy to advanced military technology, and do they love to blow things up? ...yes
Do they engage in global terrorist theatre to train us to be submissive loyal slaves? ...yes

Do they care about us, our individual rights, our personal health and happiness? ...no
Do they care about the suffering of the weak or helpless? ...no.
Do they care about planet earth remaining a habitable place to live? ...no
Do they care about being "respected and famous"? ...no.

Are they worshippers of Satan, Lucifer, Baphomet, Horus, etc etc? Are they shape shifting aliens that live in underground complexes? Are they seperate multigenerational bloodlines that have remained distinct since the time of Nimrod, and participate in satanic orgies with mind-controlled fashion models?

Beats me. Does any of that really matter? Is all the occult/alien stuff a spooky smokescreen for a group of ruthless greedy businessmen? dunno.

Is there an unseen force, group or committee secretly controlling the confused people of the planet earth and working toward a specific agenda that only they really understand?

Sure seems that way ... whenever I recognize an element of that force, I call it "Illuminati"
Anyway, check out Saussy's book for the poop on the vatican.

here's an explanatory note from the springmeier book mentioned by caspian

Today the organizations descended from the Illuminati do not call themselves, 'Illuminati', as this would be a give away.�
Nor do they call any of their organizations names like:� Billionaire's Association to Rule the World By The Use of Communism;
Institute of the 20th Century Illuminati; or, Society of Secret Planners.� However, not all the names of these neo-Illuminati
organizations are devious.� Groups such as the World Federalists and the United Nations Association... have names well
reflective of their goal of World Rule.� Yes, it is a fact: the Mellons, Carnegies, Rothschilds, Rockefellers, Dukes, Astors,
Dorrances, Reynoldses, Stillmans, Bakers, Paynes, Cullmans, Watsons, Tukes, Kleinwarts, DuPonts, Warburgs, Phippses,
Graces, Guggenheims, Milners, Drexels, Winthops, Vanderbilts, Whitneys, Haknesses and other super rich illuminated
families generally get along quite well with Communists, who supposedly want to take away the wealth of these men and
give it to the people.� However, this is only double talk designed to bolster the superstructure of delusions that Communists
are the enemies of all Capitalists.� But Communists, like the super rich families, are not the enemies of Monopoly Capitalism;
they are the foes of Free Enterprise. " - (untitled manuscript of David Hill, p 215)...These top families are united against the
common man, whom they fleece regularly and in their own inside documents call "cattle". �

The human command structure of the Illuminati is difficult to understand since it is concealed from the general population.� The
levels can be defined as interlocking organizations and societies that vary in their operation and status.� It is important to now
how the leadership roles in the Illuminati work, if we are to understand the command structure.� A person can be involved in a
high level organization and at the same time function on lower groups.� For example, high school student body presidents have
high positions in the school but at the same time can be members of the less influential groups, such as the French club.�
Individuals in the Illuminati work in the same fashion.� This creates an effective means of communication between all levels.

speaking of Fritz Springmeier, does anybody have any new info on this guy? I understand he's in jail for bankrobbery - some say he's being framed by the feds, some people say he's a nutbag or an "undercover" MK-ULTRA programmer himself. Is he really sitting in a jail cell somewhere right now?

Originally posted by The Axeman
What 13 families?

1. The Astor Bloodline.
2. The Bundy Bloodline.
3. The Collins Bloodline.
4. The DuPont Bloodline.
5. The Freeman Bloodline.
6. The Kennedy Bloodline.
7. The Li Bloodline.
8. The Onassis Bloodline.
9. The Rockefeller Bloodline.
10. The Rothschild Bloodline.
11. The Russell Bloodline.
12. The Van Duyn Bloodline.
13. The Reynolds bloodline.

Then of course you have the Merovingian and European royal families.

I've just finished watching Fritz Springmeier's 2 and a half hour lecture on the Illuminati and mind control, and came away surprisingly impressed. I'm no Christian nor religious, but I appreciated what he had to say because without his background he would never have uncovered so much amazing research into the subject. Here's the link to the Prophecy Club lecture here:
video.google.com...

A few points of interest for me:
-he mentions MJ-12 - Majic, which of course has the UFO connotation, which at that point he didn't choose to correlate. But he brought in the alien connection later with
-contact with Reptilian beings
-plans for a faked alien invasion, as warned by Wernher Von Braun in his interview with Carol Rosin of the Disclosure Project.
-preparation of underground concentration camps, as alluded by Phil Schneider.
-details of trauma-based mind control, which struck me when I think of the Princess Diana assasination, Arizona Wilder and Duncan O'Finioan.
-details of rituals / deaths / planned births to coincide on Halloween - I think of Jon-Benet Ramsey - the 'last bulb of the christmas tree'.
-the sacrifice of a human at the right time to collect the right concentration of adrenal glands, which he alludes to Al Gore reported by the media as carrying lots of blood because he is a haemophiliac whereas he really is a blood drinker! Food for thought!

Now this guy's been talking about this long before the likes of David Icke came along. He's recently become imprisoned for 9 years stitched up on some bogus charges - he's a nice guy, he obviously didn't do any of this robbery stuff. He's obviously a menace to the powers that be, exposing them for what they really are, and he had to be put away. Look at this, he's been imprisoned for 9 years, beginning in 2003. Year of release - - - 2012! Could it be they have imprisoned him long enough to enable the NWO wheels to fall in motion? I was amazed how spot on he was in terms of what others have come forward and said. Wouldn't be surprised if he actually was telling the dirty truth after all.

Originally posted by RiotComing

Originally posted by The Axeman
What 13 families?

1. The Astor Bloodline.

... snip ...

13. The Reynolds bloodline.

Then of course you have the Merovingian and European royal families.

Would the bloodline include all descendants of these people or just a single line, such as eldest male? Also - did the bloodline start at a single original person, if so... what about their mother and father?

Did you know that over 50% of people in the Western world are descended from Charlemagne? I don't know if he was related to the Merovingians but you can see how many individuals living today would be related to these bloodlines.

i have to agree why would they want illuminati to run vatican? the vatican city is theres and know ones gonna take it from them, im sure the vatican are in scilent war with occults and trying to stop them just like they did with the knights templer. whos knows what scriptures or how far underground the vatican goes.

[edit on 10-5-2007 by Swissgarud]

[edit on 10-5-2007 by Swissgarud]

some1 has been reading to much dan brown