Human evolution: A simple calculation indicates that human evolution may have been turbo charged !

reply to post by spookfish


Nope. It is just my own observations. That is all.

Well...kind of kick started by the thread on ATS about the Insanity Virus.

reply to post by soficrow


Thanks so much for the info. I've kind of had such a feeling in my guts for years regarding similar concepts but have never really voiced them beyond the concept of symbiosis and beneficial gut bacteria. Its almost the Gaia hypothesis in microcosm. And the concept of infections etc leading to beneficial measurable changes physically and psychologically is breathtaking. It would also go some way to identifying myriad problems I've experienced as my list of medications grows every year, and every year I get sicker.

Thanks again.

A couple other things to consider is the new link that has been found/theorized between the sun and the decay of radioactive isotopes. Apparently the sun has an effect on the rate of decay, and one could assume that due to this, life would experience more random genetic mutation.

Another thing to think about OP is that the organisms alive today have been part of a chain of life that was obviously the most adaptable to changing situations. And we can also extrapolate from that, that the organisms alive today are better capable of producing "change". Or are most capable of change.

When we compare DNA vs computer programming, you can accomplish the same result with a myriad of methods (pun) and infact, a sloppy less experienced programmer will generally use more coding than a more experinced programmer. So when it comes to DNA, think quality not quantity

reply to post by AndrewJay


It's a fine point - and what's to say we haven't already...???

* cue twilight zone music *

I'm thinking nazi experiments in Antarctica, the underground bases in Dulce and all that creepy stuff.

I once met a guy who was an activist with an animal rights group - they infiltrated (broke into in the dead of night) a research facility to do some vandalism and found a room of what appeared to be chimeras; they were semi-human, seemingly the result of experiments to blend human and animal DNA. This guy and the activists had to flee the scene when security/ police arrived, and to this day I don't know if he was telling fibs to promote his animal rights agenda, or whether it might have been true.

Anyway, it reminded me just now of a story re: the Sumerian god Enki, creating hybrid chimeras at a research facility, shortly before he created the 'worker' (human) from a combination of Homo genus DNA and their own 'god' DNA.

Originally posted by spookfish
reply to post by soficrow

 

Thanks so much for the info. I've kind of had such a feeling in my guts for years regarding similar concepts but have never really voiced them beyond the concept of symbiosis and beneficial gut bacteria. Its almost the Gaia hypothesis in microcosm. And the concept of infections etc leading to beneficial measurable changes physically and psychologically is breathtaking. It would also go some way to identifying myriad problems I've experienced as my list of medications grows every year, and every year I get sicker.

Thanks again.

You're welcome.

And you're right - it is almost the Gaia hypothesis in microcosm - I've always been kind of disappointed Lovelock never articulated it...

The notion that 'disease' actually is 'beneficial' really is breathtaking isn't it? ...But think about it - the idea that (1) 'disease' is a fundamental aspect of evolution, coupled with (2) the recognition that our evolution is now essential for our survival on this planet, pretty much (3) threatens the foundations of Western medicine if not our entire economic system.

...By comparison, the ancient healing traditions specify clearly that "healing" is about bringing into "harmony."

reply to post by FlyInTheOintment

I once met a guy who was an activist with an animal rights group - they infiltrated (broke into in the dead of night) a research facility to do some vandalism and found a room of what appeared to be chimeras; they were semi-human, seemingly the result of experiments to blend human and animal DNA. This guy and the activists had to flee the scene when security/ police arrived, and to this day I don't know if he was telling fibs to promote his animal rights agenda, or whether it might have been true.

I'd say he was telling the truth. ...Check the science journals - at least some stuff on chimeras has made it into print. ...Much of it to do with using animals to engineer transplantable human organs for harvest.

Anyway, it reminded me just now of a story re: the Sumerian god Enki, creating hybrid chimeras at a research facility, shortly before he created the 'worker' (human) from a combination of Homo genus DNA and their own 'god' DNA.

Good work on the subliminals! Star for you.

...Happens similar thoughts have been dancing through my own mind...

reply to post by tauristercus


S&F from me. I have read and listened to a lot of opinions of this subject and I am currently convinced that from time to time, we do indeed experience accelerated evolutionary periods.

I believe that exposure to varying frequencies, even those generated by conscious thought, may be the key to this phenomena. Much like Dr. Masaru Emoto demonstrated in his water experiments; www.highexistence.com...

Some people like David Wilcock have put forth the theory that waves of energy, or frequency waves are generated at the core of our galaxy and migrate outward like ripples in a pond. As these frequency waves pass through our solar system, they cause evolutionary changes not only on the DNA level, but well beyond that into the quantum level that governs our very existence.

I believe that the events projected for 2012 may have to do with our next future encounter with one of these frequency waves and that we are going to experience a colossal leap in the consciousness evolution. I think that we are in for a new awareness that all life is interconnected. Like the Navi on Pandora in the movie Avatar.

When the human race awakens to this fact, they will be much less likely to harm one another and more likely to look out for each other. I believe that this will be the time when we recognize the "Christ Consciousness" residing in each other and we will behold the golden age. I'm not even a religious person but that's what I think. This is what the Navi meant when they said to one another, "I See You."

Of course human evolution was turbo charged it went a little like this..................



and will be completed like this...............................

reply to post by tauristercus

...the 1st evidence of life (simple cells) dates back to approximately 3.8 billion years. So we can see that life appeared not to long after the creation of the Earth !.

I've always assumed that genetic mutations tended to occur relatively slowly and accumulated over long periods of time through a process of natural selection ... but here's the hard to believe part ... at least for me.

We have a total of approximately 3.164 billion nucleotide base pairs.
We have a period of approximately 3.8 billion years since the dawn of life.

So, a simple bit of maths shows that to get from that original extremely simple cell to a human, means that random evolution coupled with natural selection pressures had to SUCCESSFULLY add a completely new rung to the ladder on average almost EVERY SINGLE YEAR !!

tauristercus - You've taken a lot of heat here over your apparently simplistic equation. Never mind the trolls, you've been told by "educated" experts that you don't understand the concept of evolution, the science, yada yada. There's something you need to know...

ATS has a core group of "experts" equipped with degrees, dogma and the consequential, requisite closed minds. They are so busy vaunting their own expertise and fortifying their cloistered little enclave, they have virtually NO ability to recognize legitimate new ideas. They cannot accommodate alternate perspectives; they cannot evaluate original thinking; they cannot tolerate "heresy." In general, the most vicious attacks are generated by these self-proclaimed "educated" experts defending their turf.

Ignore their vitriol, keep moving, keep thinking and keep posting.

Your numbers make perfect sense from the farthermost perspective - when the human species is considered to be a superorganism. In this context, a superorganism is a collection of individual agents like viruses and bacteria, which come together and work cooperatively to create a complex organism (eg., the human superorganism).

Arguably, any legitimate review of a superorganism's evolution must consider the distinct evolutionary path of the superorganism's originally discrete components. ...As well, we need to recognize that these components maintain the ability to evolve discretely.

From this larger viewpoint, your observations are dead on. And you are right, humankind's evolutionary path is most properly understood as "beginning" with the first appearance of life on the planet, with the first microbe that became part of the super-organism that is us.

imho, your perspective is essential to a proper understanding of "evolution" - both in terms of "where we came from" and as well, to better grasp the concept, mechanics and potential directions of our continuuing evolution.

Having barely passed high school biology I am by no means an expert on this subject matter-so indulge me in this.
It appears that we have two options-
accept classical evolution as described by Darwin
accept a form of intelligent design--but perhaps not the one the religous right would have you believe.

Even if a superorganism of humanity is the goal of bacteriaL life that bacteria must have a means of communication and understanding.Neither of these traits have been identified to the best of my knowledge. A bacteria in Jersey does not get data from a bacteria in Delhi unless they are physically close. So the adaptation that the Delhi bug "creates" is limited in geography without a technology to transport the hosts.That is in my mind a major problem for a viral or bacterial driven evolutionary path.Certainly they have a role but they may be agents more than the conductor.

Radiation causeing mutation via cyclical space based events. Again we have a problem with this.Random energies strike random DNA in random organisms. The mutation they cause in the reproductive cells must be within certain parameters or this organism will never reproduce.
Its like the old cowboy trick shooter hitting the ace of spades blindfolded-and that newly holed ace of spades finds another deck from another trick shooter and mates with its holed ace of spades...Possible? Yes.Would I bet on it.No...not even with your money.

Whatever caused this alleged accelerated evolution on earth based organisms must have .....an intent.There I said it,
This just cannot be random IMHO.Does this mean god on high?Alien ancient astronauts?A conscious life force in the universe?Who knows,
But I would love to hear what you good folks think the INTENT is.Gut feeling says that will help me answer some nagging questions I have about life the universe and whatnot-perhaps there is no greater question to ask.

reply to post by FlyInTheOintment

Pains me to say it, but 'nonsense'. Those posts did nothing to address the anomalies in the evolutionary development of Homo Sapiens.

There are no such anomalies, except in the minds of those who embrace ignorance out of fear.

Seeing as this thread's still going, along with Part 2, here's a (partially) duplicate post...

…Here's a monkey wrench I quite enjoy, and I'd like you ALL to consider the implications, if you would please.

It's now known that:
1. Individual bacteria (not just the population) can adapt to a changing environment at the DNA level, and THEN
2. Purposefully transfer that adaptive genetic information horizontally to their neighbors. In other words, the genetic information is NOT "inherited" or passed on "genetically" - it's transferred like an 'infection.'

Just noticed that mattison0922 posted on this VERY intriguing information back in May of 2009, when the studies got renewed attention. [Sorry I wasn't around then matt.]

mattison0922

This article details the molecular mechanism behind the transfer of resistance genes between bacteria. …New rearrangements are triggered by taking an antibiotics, and those bacteria that have 'correctly' rearranged their genes, creating a new resistance cassette, will be able to survive and pass on this resistance not only vertically, but also horizontally - to their peers; bacteria can pass resistance genes to their neighbors in a deliberate manner.

This is extremely significant; the classic Darwinian story describes the organism as entirely a slave to the environment, unable to respond or adapt at the individuallevel. Only a lucky few - those that are resistant by chance - survive the selective pressure of antibiotic use, and are able to pass on their genes.

Or as you've been more simply taught: Survival of the fittest.

This new research clearly indicates that this is not necessarily the case, and in fact, contrary to what I've been taught more-or-less through my entire history in science - individual organisms - not just populations are able to not only react to, but also to adapt to the environment.

At least individual microorganisms are able to do this.

It cannot be stressed enough how significant of a break this is from the classic story of antibiotic resistance via Darwinian evolution. The idea that the individual and not just the population of organisms can adapt to a changing environment at the DNA level is literally scientific heresy.

This is of course more evidence, another huge piece of evidence suggesting that The Theory of Evolution with respect Darwin's ideas is at least not as well understood as was once believed, and at most completely, utterly, and totally false.

Also see: mattison0922
ORIGINAL SOURCES:
Molecular Mechanisms of Antibacterial Multidrug Resistance
The SOS Response Controls Integron Recombination

For the sake of argument, let's assume that ALL species have this capacity to share genetic information horizontally - to "infect" other members of their species with genetic information. Where does that lead?

1. The first thing that comes to my mind is delightfully amusing. Visualize a group of elite rulers, exceedingly proud of their "superior" bloodlines and their thousand-year pedigrees - being fed, served and dressed by "genetically inferior" peasants.

…Not only are the "elite" sharing their "superior" genetic information with peasants, but their own "superior bloodline" is being contaminated by genetic information passed horizontally from their "inferior" peasant servants.

…This is, of course, absolute heresy. Unthinkable. And imho, not just most probable, but really, really funny.

2. "Eugenics" didn't die after WW2, it went underground in our hallowed halls of learning, was renamed "Genetics" and went on to "inform" virtually every discipline on the curriculum. Most geneticists, sociologists, doctors, medical researchers, policy analysts and lawmakers have been trained, educated and programmed to accept the premise that some bloodlines are "genetically superior" and others "genetically inferior." That only the "fittest" survive. At best, they offer lip-service to the notion that environment may be a factor in development.

Right or Left - Policies for birth control, population reduction and control are all premised on the notion that "inferior human stock" needs to be controlled, if not eradicated. Economic and other policies that readily accommodate the notion of 'collateral damage' are informed, justified and rationalized by Eugenics postulates.

BUT…

…IF any individual can develop successful adaptive traits,
THEN
…virtually any individual -rich, poor, healthy, sick, educated, uneducated- may have the genes required to ensure the human species survival in our planet's radically changed environment,
AND
…any interventionist eugenics policy risks depriving the entire human species of genetic information essential to ensuring the human species' survival - not just that individual's potential progeny.

Further,

…IF an individual can pass along adaptive genetic information as infection,
THEN
…no interventionist eugenics policies make any sense. At all.


This 'bank' of research shows that genetic information can be transferred horizontally not just between members of the same species, but across species barriers too. Other research shows that some genetic information crosses not just species barriers, but kingdom barriers as well.

So what if…

What if ALL living organisms exchange and share genetic information essential to survival? What if every distinct genome isn't really that distinct? What might that imply?

Like someone already posted in this thread before hand: the number of chromosomes (i.e., the length of their DNA sequence) does not correspond to how complex the life form is.

The fern (Ophioglossum reticulatum) has 630 pairs of chromosomes (1260 individual chromosomes) per cell

Ophioglossales

reply to post by Astyanax


Once again, you are talking nonsense, and failing to explain in any depth what you actually mean - just insinuating that I'm somehow ignorant or afraid?? Odd, nonsensical behaviour from a supposedly intelligent person.

I will be compiling a thread on the (very much existant) anomalies - and other interesting 'origins' stuff soon, and I'll make a point of inviting your comments.

I am not a creationist, although you seem to be lumping anyone who doesn't accept the theory of evolution as it applies to mankind into the bracket of people sharing a common belief in a bearded grandfather-figure on a cloud who made us from mud.

Just for fun, here's what we'd look like if we were made from mud:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/58137001d5b4.jpg[/atsimg]


We don't look like that, but even so there are some very strange anomalies evident in mankind's biological emergence, and in the subsequent development/s of civilisation. These anomalies should ring alarm bells in the minds of those to whom we entrust knowledge gathering (the scholars). All too often though, a paradigm is constructed - and defended - without the rule of common sense being applied in solving pivotal, enigmatic mysteries from ages past.

To understand what our future may hold, we must reclaim a fuller understanding of our past.

reply to post by FlyInTheOintment


S &

Re: complexity, chaos theory---> emergent self-organization as explanation for your anomalies.

Have you read Biological Emergences: Evolution by Natural Experiment by Robert Reid? ...Think it might support your thinking.

reply to post by FlyInTheOintment

I will be compiling a thread on the (very much existant) anomalies - and other interesting 'origins' stuff soon, and I'll make a point of inviting your comments.

Why not publish it in Nature instead, and make yourself world-renowned?

U2U me when your thread is published.