Israel is a Jewish State. Deal with it.

I see so many posts here about Israel, foreign policy, and Zionism. I'd like to put a lid on at least some of them.

First off, the infamous concept of Zionism. You will note that its very name comes from a propaganda manual printed in pre-Revolution Russia (1903 to be exact) to incite riots against the Jewish population. The idea that Israel wants to control the world is equally preposterous. All nations want to control the world in one way or another, including the US.

The idea that Israel has no right to exist is also insane. When the country was created, the Jews were, as a people, refugees. Without a country, shunned by other nations (again, including the US). If the UN were to mark off a nation today for refugees from, say, the conflict in Darfur, would anybody have issues with it? I didn't think so.

Next up is that the Israeli military are too heavy-handed in dealing with breakaway factions in the Gaza Strip and elsewhere. There are two issues with this: one, that a country is outside its rights to defend its existence and sovereignty, and two, that causing civilian casualties in a war is unacceptable. Factions like Hezbollah wish to destroy their state. If a Mexican terrorist group was shooting rockets into the US, would the American army allow it? Second, collateral damage is inevitable. How many civilians have the Coalition killed in Iraq? 50,000? 100,000? 200,00? The numbers I'm looking at put it between 90,000 and 600,000. That figures out to be a 50% increase in the death rate. And don't forget, the US wasn't under threat from the Middle East. How many people did they kill on 9/11? 3000? Between 1987 and 2010, Israel suffered 1,540 deaths directly from Palestinian attacks. Palestinian casualties number 5,903. The US has suffered 4,430 deaths in Iraq, and the entire Coalition has lost 4748 people. Let's do the math.The ratio between Palestinian and Israeli deaths over 23 years is 3.8. That comes out to 326 Palestinians killed per year, including combatants. A shockingly high figure. Since accurate figures are unavailable for Iraq, I will use 150,000 dead. 33 Iraqis killed per Coalition death. The yearly Iraqi loss is roughly 21,428. How does it feel to have killed more civilians in less time than the hated Israel?

I think Israel has become a solely Jewish state, and there will be nothing we can do about it.

But let me ask you, is that land rightfully theirs? Were they there first?

Was the process of it becoming a Jewish state based on true historical right to the land or a politically motivated land-grab?

That is where the real meat of the issue lies. If I believe the Palestinians have a valid argument, I do not wish to "deal with it".

Wikipedia has some interesting things to say about this issue as well. Read up!

whatever, a land is your land so long as you have the power to protect it or invade it. Our history tells us that a country is a country only if it manages to militarily defend it. Clearly, the Israelis in the past were not able to, thus making them a nomads, moving from countries to countries, getting kicked out of countries to countries...to finally having enough power in England to make the government to create an Israeli state. You see, Palestine was part of the British colony. It was the British who decided to give former Palestine to the Jews who demanded it after WWII....

So, this country, a piece of land which belonged to many different people in the past, is now a Jewish owned land. The Israelis have the military capabilities to defend its own territories so there we go... It has to be theirs... unless if history repeats itself once again....

reply to post by ShadeWolf


Comparing death ratios between the US and Israel??

Both are warmongers with no conscience..
So how does that fit in with normal people???

Israel is a criminal state..Always has been, always will be..
They do as they please.....With US backing....

But I also think that the Jews in Israel has to be sensitive to history as well. They lost their land A LONG LONG time ago. Like 3 thousand years ago. ( i believe)..... During the thousands of years that they were gone, it was owned by Muslims the whole time...

Basically, Modern Israel land mass has been owned by Muslims 90% of human history. It was their land for thousands of years. Israel and Jerusalem city has been one of their holy sites for longer than the Jews were owning the land. So you see, Jews must try to realize this part of the history as well...by not building settlements where the UN has declared not theirs.

reply to post by ShadeWolf


You did not close the lid on anything.

Zionism is real. It is not merely something drawn up from a propaganda book. Zionism is a political and nationalistic movement with the primary goal of establishing a Jewish state at all cost. Problem with that is that Zionism does not want Jews to co-exist with Palestinians or Arabs in harmony but rather Zionists want destroy Palestinians and erase the idea that Palestine ever existed. Some say that Israel wants to expand and become Greater Israel. Zionism will provide the means for that through terror and manipulation.

Zionists.

Biden calling himself a Zionist.

www.youtube.com...

Jews against Zionism.

www.youtube.com...

Christian Zionism is a national movement mainly in the U.S. that believes in supporting Israel, right or wrong, based on the idea that "God" promised the Jews the land that is now Israel and thus Christians are obligated to support Israel because of their religious conection.

www.youtube.com...


Nobody wants Israel NOT to exist. Again, people like you make Jews look like a victim with such an extreme view like that. People want Jews and Palestinians to SHARE the land. But YOU don't see that. Your mind is stuck in black/white thinking.

An interesting article theorizing that Hamas is a creation of the Mossad.

www.globalresearch.ca...


This thread about the Triple Border in South America and how terrorist groups like Hamas and Hizbollah are created there then spread throughout the world to do harm.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

How about looking at BOTH SIDES before making a statement? This is the problem with the Middle east conflict today. People are so extreme in their views or they pick a side and sit there. They can't see or reach any middle ground.

reply to post by ShadeWolf


Still pissed off about missing Abraham's blessing, eh?
Genesis: "Abraham gave all that he had to Isaac, " Genesis 26:3: "Sojourn in this land, and I will be with you, and will bless you. For to you, and to your seed, I will give all these lands, and I will establish the oath which I swore to Abraham your father."
26:4: "I will multiply your seed as the stars of the sky, and will give to your seed all these lands. In your seed will all the nations of the earth be blessed,"
And God DID bless Isaac...

Sorry but I dont and wont support genocidal maniacs who delight in committing crimes against humanity...

reply to post by ShadeWolf


Could Israel survive without the unconstitutional aid given to them by the U.S.?

Absolutely not.

All support needs to be withdrawn and lets see what happens.

Originally posted by ShadeWolf
First off, the infamous concept of Zionism. You will note that its very name comes from a propaganda manual printed in pre-Revolution Russia (1903 to be exact) to incite riots against the Jewish population. The idea that Israel wants to control the world is equally preposterous. All nations want to control the world in one way or another, including the US.

The fact that you confuse the Protocols of the Elders of Zion with the political philosophy and agenda of Zionism in your very first paragraph demonstrates conclusively you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. The rest of your post goes on to prove that thesis rather convincingly.

Yeah...good post.

I have never understood why people hate jews so much.

I have known lots of jews, israelis, and have been to israel a couple of times. All I have met have been good people.

This thing about israel "giving the land back" is also puzzling. Couldn't we say that about essentially country on the planet?

My thing is, if the "palestenians" want the land, let them buy it, or try to take it.

Originally posted by MMPI2
Yeah...good post.

I have never understood why people hate jews so much.

I have known lots of jews, israelis, and have been to israel a couple of times. All I have met have been good people.

This thing about israel "giving the land back" is also puzzling. Couldn't we say that about essentially country on the planet?

My thing is, if the "palestenians" want the land, let them buy it, or try to take it.

Or let Israel try to defend it without the aid of the U.S.

Israel couldnt survive without us.

Originally posted by saabacura
But I also think that the Jews in Israel has to be sensitive to history as well. They lost their land A LONG LONG time ago. Like 3 thousand years ago. ( i believe)..... During the thousands of years that they were gone, it was owned by Muslims the whole time...

Nonsense. Jews stilll had the land less than 2,000 years ago and about a thousand years before that (Sources vary from 500 BC to 1300 BC as to when Exodus happened) Of course that area has been subject to so many invasions over time that it's hard to keep count.

Basically, Modern Israel land mass has been owned by Muslims 90% of human history. It was their land for thousands of years. Israel and Jerusalem city has been one of their holy sites for longer than the Jews were owning the land. So you see, Jews must try to realize this part of the history as well...by not building settlements where the UN has declared not theirs.

Nonsense. The Muslim religion is less than 1500 years old. That doesn't translate to "90% of human history." Muslims didn't even show up until 638 AD. And in a time honored tradition they buult their Dome on the Rock right smack dab in the center of the Jewish Built 2nd temple.

And screw the UN. really. The UN is not in charge. Further, they have no idea what they are doing. For example, they were against Israel building a wall to stave off terrorist attacks, one that when completed brought the number of attacks down from several hundred a year to less than a dozen, but if the UN wants to build a wall, that's different. So what do they want? To build a wall separating a valley of Arab farmers (not all Arabs are Palestinians) so that 1/2 of them will be in Lebanon. Except the Arabs don't want to do that. Why not? Because they make $30K per year and live in a thoroughly modern country, but of they were suddenly in Lebanon they would make $200 per year in a dirt poor third world country.

And the settlements. Please. In the west we tend to think of settlements as some remote place where the Jews are 'invading' Palestinian territory. More nonsense. The settlements are in the next block over. They are that close. Bethleham. run by the Palestinian authority, is the next hill over from Jerusalem.

But in answer to the OP, yes, Israel is a Jewish theocracy. No doubt about it. You can't get a bacon sandwich anywhere and all the restaurants are certified by the government as kosher. During the Sabbath, everything shuts down.

To everyone. GO THERE and look to see for yourself. It's a much different place than the MSM and leftist creeps would have you believe.

the modern Jews, wrested a Lands from British control... claiming a heritage ownership...

but if one looks at the division of the territories conquered by the whole 12 tribes of Israel
we see that the present day Jews in diasporia are Also claiming the lands that were once
the Northern Kingdom of the 10 'lost' tribes.............How does that Work?

the modern state of Jewish Israel was created together with the Palestine state,
but only one state dominates the lands of 2 legal states


oh, maybe this map/graphic will help...if it even comes up on screen

images.search.yahoo.com... ap&w=600&h=781&imgurl=www.religionstudy.com%2Fmaps%2Fimages%2Ftribal_land_israel_052.jpg&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.religionstudy.com%2Fmaps%2Ftribal_land_ israel.htm&size=62KB&name=...+Ancient+Isra...&p=ancient+israel+map&oid=b1f6370b038aa775dc9b0544471ea5e3&fr2=&no=14&tt=12300&sigr=11olopdb9&sigi=11s6oq f5j&sigb=12ig44psg&.crumb=quGwozZzXfq#FCar=b1f6370b038aa775dc9b0544471ea5e3

Originally posted by schuyler

Originally posted by saabacura
But I also think that the Jews in Israel has to be sensitive to history as well. They lost their land A LONG LONG time ago. Like 3 thousand years ago. ( i believe)..... During the thousands of years that they were gone, it was owned by Muslims the whole time...

Nonsense. Jews stilll had the land less than 2,000 years ago and about a thousand years before that (Sources vary from 500 BC to 1300 BC as to when Exodus happened) Of course that area has been subject to so many invasions over time that it's hard to keep count.

Basically, Modern Israel land mass has been owned by Muslims 90% of human history. It was their land for thousands of years. Israel and Jerusalem city has been one of their holy sites for longer than the Jews were owning the land. So you see, Jews must try to realize this part of the history as well...by not building settlements where the UN has declared not theirs.

Nonsense. The Muslim religion is less than 1500 years old. That doesn't translate to "90% of human history." Muslims didn't even show up until 638 AD. And in a time honored tradition they buult their Dome on the Rock right smack dab in the center of the Jewish Built 2nd temple.

And screw the UN. really. The UN is not in charge. Further, they have no idea what they are doing. For example, they were against Israel building a wall to stave off terrorist attacks, one that when completed brought the number of attacks down from several hundred a year to less than a dozen, but if the UN wants to build a wall, that's different. So what do they want? To build a wall separating a valley of Arab farmers (not all Arabs are Palestinians) so that 1/2 of them will be in Lebanon. Except the Arabs don't want to do that. Why not? Because they make $30K per year and live in a thoroughly modern country, but of they were suddenly in Lebanon they would make $200 per year in a dirt poor third world country.

And the settlements. Please. In the west we tend to think of settlements as some remote place where the Jews are 'invading' Palestinian territory. More nonsense. The settlements are in the next block over. They are that close. Bethleham. run by the Palestinian authority, is the next hill over from Jerusalem.

But in answer to the OP, yes, Israel is a Jewish theocracy. No doubt about it. You can't get a bacon sandwich anywhere and all the restaurants are certified by the government as kosher. During the Sabbath, everything shuts down.

To everyone. GO THERE and look to see for yourself. It's a much different place than the MSM and leftist creeps would have you believe.

Are you a Jew living in Israel??? Muslims or Middle eastern whatever...it was not Jewish land as you they where kicked out a long long long long time ago. It has been part of Arab land... if you want to so speak

I also find who is really Jew questionable. All the people who claim to be Jews are Caucasians now. I find this religion unique. I thought Jew originate from Israel, which was right in the middle of the middle east...

I should suspect that all the real jews to look like middle easterns...?

Judaism is crazy flawed as they think that they are Jews so long as their mother was an original jew... It don't matter who the father was... Crazy religion which claims that a mothers DNA will make them a jew....

LOL, Please, can we stop bringing old ancient religion into our modern day political issues??

reply to post by Damersh


No god. No blessing. All a crock of it as far as I'm concerned. I couldn't care less about scripture.

Oh no!!! Heavens Forbid!!! A Jewish State? How did this happen? Who's to blame? Well certainly there are those who are more responsible than others, and they will be held accountable. But, Truth be told, if you're looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror.





Please don't kill me. I'm not jewish, not racist, or religious.