Bradley Manning's health deteriorating in jail, supporters say (WL)

reply to post by purplemer


I was just thinking the same thing as he continues to spew mainstream talking points. There is no proof Assange conspired with Manning. None whatsoever. He even manages to keep Assange in the forefront when the thread is about Manning's treatment and well being.

Originally posted by purplemer
reply to post by pteridine

 

How did assange take advantage.[1] Noone knows what was said between the two. That is making a big assumption.
As for putting life in jeporday is it not possible that more lifes will be saved in the long run [2]..Is not two illegal wars and millions dead not putting peoples lifes in jepordy.. Is it not high time someone started putting international security before national securtity before we completly bugger everything up...
As to my question in my last post ["Do you think mannings and assange have acted wrong? [3] What would you do if you saw high level corruption in a 'free government' and the was no legal way of dealing with it...? "]
if you have time plz answer...

1. Assange is an old hand at this. Manning is a rookie. Call it an assumption if you like.
2. The old "saving more lives in the long run" argument sounds good to some.
3. I think Manning and Assange have made matters worse rather than better.
4. Define "high level corruption ."

reply to post by Cablespider


My points are my own. Your comments seem to follow others' ideas on this thread. Is your spewage your own?

reply to post by pteridine

1. Assange is an old hand at this. Manning is a rookie. Call it an assumption if you like. 2. The old "saving more lives in the long run" argument sounds good to some. 3. I think Manning and Assange have made matters worse rather than better. 4. Define "high level corruption ."

1) Manning would have come to assenge no one was used here

2) How can it not save lives in the long run? it is proganda that causes war not truth

3) Informing the public of the truth does not make things wore. It allows people to make valid opinions instead of false ones. You think we would have gone to war if we new the truth..

4) I dont want to pick hairs it is a discusion, not a court of law.. I might as well say define, definition... It will get us no where. I will rephrase the question intead

who watches the watchers?


kx

Originally posted by purplemer
reply to post by pteridine

 

1. Assange is an old hand at this. Manning is a rookie. Call it an assumption if you like. 2. The old "saving more lives in the long run" argument sounds good to some. 3. I think Manning and Assange have made matters worse rather than better. 4. Define "high level corruption ."

1) Manning would have come to assenge no one was used here

2) How can it not save lives in the long run? it is proganda that causes war not truth

3) Informing the public of the truth does not make things wore. It allows people to make valid opinions instead of false ones. You think we would have gone to war if we new the truth..

4) I dont want to pick hairs it is a discusion, not a court of law.. I might as well say define, definition... It will get us no where. I will rephrase the question intead

who watches the watchers?

1] Assange provided the noose. Manning used it because he thought the gallows would make him famous as a do-gooder. Assange will run free while Brad swings.
2] Truth also causes war; see, for example WW2. There is no way of knowing what will happen and the lack of any filters on the released material, e.g., the key terror target lists, make all involved culpable for lives lost in attacks on these targets.
3.] Opinions are opinions. All are 'valid' because they are opinions.
4.] Watcher watchers. A free press is important but an irresponsible press is counterproductive, in my 'valid' opinion.

reply to post by pteridine

"violated the law, and now will have to pay the consequences."

More double Standards , yes he did break the law but the cables he leaked show top officials doing likewise and their not a brigg being tortured to insanity. I don't see you or anyone calling for their heads or freedom to be taken away , you just overlook that and seek to kill the messenger , sickening , what a morally bankrupt society we live in.

"I also note you are dreaming of a revolution. You really don't have a clue about this do you?"

A revolution against the Fascist New World Order of The North American Union ?, Hell Yeah. With or without me there will eventually be a revolution , the scum keep pushing our buttons. Personally I think they want us to do either of 2 things , revolt so they can have an excuse to declare martial law declare the rebels terrorists , plant a rebel group controlled by them; the N.W.O , let it run amok causing chaos and destruction as an excuse to bring in F.E.M.A and the U.N and bring America under full U.N Jurisdiction. The Second option , if we don't revolt , just bend over and get raped , while they eat away at our constitution , take away more rights and pillage the country. Before their done they'l probably leave us worse than Africa , multiculturalism and mass immigration will leave us tribalized and the corruption in Government and Military will be chronic.Yes I do have a clue. The only bloodless revolutions I know of was the establishment of the bank of England , when the Rothschilds conquered England , then when the Federal Reserve was created in America adding us to their Monetary Empire. Other than those I know no revolution that has ever been bloodless , isn't struggle the spark of life.

"Brad screwed up. Some of the cables he released listed many important terrorism targets."

Yup , he did screw up , he got caught. And those targets , don't you think they knew they'd walk the earth as outlaws , with a bullet or pair of cuffs with their names on it the minute the messed with The Great Eagle. These leaked cables prove the nastiness going on in the halls of high standing. When Saudi Arabia and Pakistan appears on that list then , we can start shaking in our boots , but wait aren't they our allies.This angst you have against Brad is it because he betrayed the military or the Government , most people don't see him as betraying the military , but I get that most soldiers see it that way. If anything Brad shows the military man still has a conscience , still has honor , still stands up for what is right like Smedly Buttler , instead of following orders like a trained beast.

"What will happen when people are killed because of Brad's "heroism?" Brad would then be responsible for the deaths and damage. This is called "unintended consequences" but Brad didn't think about that. "

Why you'd feel betrayed by Manning and not your government is quite disturbing. Which two illegal wars have manning started , where is the country he carried out regime change of a democratically elected leader. Which puppet government does he allow to train , fund and harbor terrorists , yet because they are allies turn a blind eye. which contra (Nicaragua ) did he support by selling weapons to the enemy (Iran) , then that contra turns around and sells drugs to our children , which we knew , hell we even flew the stuff in on military planes , but did nothing to stop it , answer these questions , please , defend your paradigm.

"The world is not a computer game that can be rebooted when you screw up."

Really , well maybe for the poor and middle class , yes that does apply , but not for the tycoons , it is a game for them , it's called Real World Monopoly. They got their reboot , called T.A.R.P and bailout money , which wasn't free by the way , us , our children and four generations of unborn children have to pay the tax with interest on those.And the whole world is paying for their "screw up" to put things mildly. Look , you're either in bed with the plutocrats or if your military , they've done some serious re-education and brainwashing on you.

As for the whole treason thing , Wiliam Alexander , Henry Knox , George washington , Thomas Paine; these men commited a treason against the crown of Britain , which impregnated the revolution that gave birth to ? , these United States. Most of these were military men before and during the American revolution , so they betrayed comrades who decided to be royalists. But was not their cause nobler , to stand up against tyrants than to honor an oath to them to enslave and destroy their fellow man? Answer this , please.

reply to post by De La Valletta


Rant on, Valetta. Malta may be a good place for you to go.

reply to post by pteridine

Yes , My great , great grandpaw , is from Malta , but that's besides the point. You didn't answer any of my questions.

Originally posted by De La Valletta
reply to post by pteridine

 

Yes , My great , great grandpaw , is from Malta , but that's besides the point. You didn't answer any of my questions.

I noticed a few random questions scattered among the diatribe. I thought that they were just rhetorical questions necessary for the show of individualism and noble ideas calling for the revolutionary sacrifices of people other than the author. The revolution part was especially amusing, predictable and reminiscient of Berkeley where the same stale ideas are rediscovered weekly by zealous reformers and announced by handbills..
As to Brigrat Manning -- he knew what he was doing and did it anyway. People that break laws always have reasons. I am not worried about his fate as he will be safe in his cell while others deal with the consequences of his actions. The targets I was referring to were facilities and resources and not necessarily individuals.

You have only to wait for indictments against those exposed by the cables. I expect every law school in the country will be scouring them, as class exercises, to see what laws have been broken, if any.

Originally posted by De La Valletta
@ flyersfan , jerico65 , sir mike , pteridine and sundry

Wow just wow , all the sick twisted mentally deranged , pedophile criminal government lapdogs calling manning a traitor here are just astounding ,

Name calling. pathetic.

Originally posted by De La Valletta
...... don't ever watch my back in a war ever , it'll be a case of friendly fire.

Like you'd actually fight.

Originally posted by De La Valletta
I'm forced to deduct that those detracting Manning are army pukes (the worst type of soldier who'll obey any order) or elitist affiliated pigs , both types too mindless or greedy to know right from wrong.

Nah, just someone that knows what a "nondisclosure agreement" means. Unlike you or Manning.

Originally posted by De La Valletta
So yes , go ahead and support the nazi fascist government , label The people's Hero Manning a traitor , none of you have the testicles or cojanes to do otherwise. When the revolution picks up you will be labeled an F-er , for failure , fed , fool , f.u.b.a.r

Geez, how much bong water did you drink before you wrote this post? Enquiring minds want to know!

On 5 January 2011, the defense filed a formal complaint with the commander of the Quantico Brig. On the same day, PFC Manning also filed a formal complaint through the confinement grievance process. Both complaints requested that the confinement facility remove PFC Manning from Prevention of Injury (POI) watch and that his classification level be reduced from "Maximum" to "Medium Detention In." The confinement facility did not respond to either complaint. Due to the lack of response from the confinement facility, the defense, pursuant to the provisions of Rule for Courts-Martial (R.C.M.) 305(g), filed a request earlier today with the Garrison Commander to direct the release of PFC Bradley Manning from pretrial confinement. This request is based upon the fact that the confinement conditions currently being endured by PFC Manning are more rigorous than necessary to guarantee his presence at trial, and that the concerns raised by the government at the time of pretrial confinement are no longer applicable. Further steps to address PFC Manning's confinement conditions will be taken, if necessary.

www.armycourtmartialdefense.info...

reply to post by De La Valletta


Actually, I am a Navy puke. While I do think that the government over classifies, its not up to the individual service members to release material we think should be public. There are proper channels for that kind of thing Manning took the same oath as I did and his willful violation of it should have him face a firing squad.

Originally posted by SirMike
reply to post by De La Valletta

 

Actually, I am a Navy puke. While I do think that the government over classifies, its not up to the individual service members to release material we think should be public. There are proper channels for that kind of thing Manning took the same oath as I did and his willful violation of it should have him face a firing squad.

I guess as a navy boy you prob know about the geneva convention.. how does that tie in with what you said above?

An order which is unlawful not only does not need to be obeyed, but obeying such an order can result in criminal prosecution of the one who obeys it. Military courts have long held that military members are accountable for their actions even while following orders -- if the order was illegal. "I was only following orders," has been unsuccessfully used as a legal defense in hundreds of cases (probably most notably by Nazi leaders at the Nuremberg tribunals following World War II). The defense didn't work for them, nor has it worked in hundreds of cases since.

Originally posted by purplemer
I guess as a navy boy you prob know about the geneva convention.. how does that tie in with what you said above?

It doesn’t tie in. One of the many punishments for what Manning did is execution following a general court marshal. Is anyone arguing that Manning's actions were not illegal? Is there any legal expert who honestly thinks that the tens of thousands of DOD personnel why have access to the SIPR network and DON’T copy hundreds of thousands of documents are like the Germans who massacred civilian populations in Warsaw or oversaw the liquidation of concentration camps? That has got to be one of the dumbest comparisons I have ever read about anything, and around here that’s really saying something.

Its like I said, just because you don’t like the classification system doesn’t give you any right to circumvent it.

reply to post by SirMike

It doesn’t tie in. One of the many punishments for what Manning did is execution following a general court marshal. Is anyone arguing that Manning's actions were not illegal? Is there any legal expert who honestly thinks that the tens of thousands of DOD personnel why have access to the SIPR network and DON’T copy hundreds of thousands of documents are like the Germans who massacred civilian populations in Warsaw or oversaw the liquidation of concentration camps? That has got to be one of the dumbest comparisons I have ever read about anything,

since both wars were illegal under international law.. Does that not amount to mass murder? Is there really any difference.
Those laws were put in place for a reason. To stop what happened with germany happening again...
so what happens if you break them laws?

kx

reply to post by purplemer


If Bradly is being kept in inhuman conditions and does not have access to medics, lawyers or his family there would certainly be issues with human rights. If this is the case, perhaps it could be worth considering getting Amnesty International or Human Rights Watch involved and starting a campaign on his behalf

reply to post by Dillydodo

#
There has been....

Amnesty International sends protest letter to Robert Gates, Pentagon chief, on Manning's confinement. Call conditions "harsh" and "punitive" and presuming guilt, and Manning has not shown poor or dangerous behavior. Says they appear to "breach" international standards.

www.thenation.com...

Originally posted by SirMike

Originally posted by purplemer
I guess as a navy boy you prob know about the geneva convention.. how does that tie in with what you said above?

It doesn’t tie in. One of the many punishments for what Manning did is execution following a general court marshal. Is anyone arguing that Manning's actions were not illegal? Is there any legal expert who honestly thinks that the tens of thousands of DOD personnel why have access to the SIPR network and DON’T copy hundreds of thousands of documents are like the Germans who massacred civilian populations in Warsaw or oversaw the liquidation of concentration camps? That has got to be one of the dumbest comparisons I have ever read about anything, and around here that’s really saying something.

Its like I said, just because you don’t like the classification system doesn’t give you any right to circumvent it.

If now both the wars have been deemed illegal under international law and members of the bush adminstration are being prosocuted in spain. Does a solider under the geneva convection have a duty to exposed the truth...
Following orders holds little mustard in this day and age..
Just a question...

happy days...

kx

reply to post by purplemer


Been “deemed illegal” by what organization of governing body that has authority, either by statute or treaty, over the United States?

reply to post by SirMike


The conditions in which mannings is kept are in breach of the us obligations under international standards and treatys.
Including article 10 of the international convenant on civil and political rights. Which the united states ratified in 1992 and which states that all persons deprived of there liberty be treated with humanity and respect for the inhernent dignity of the human person.

www.allvoices.com... WQ1MmRmMGRjODE3YS9hbXI1MTAwNjIwMTFlbi5wZGY=

America is now also being investigated by the un for the toture of b manning..

this man has not been charged yet he is being punished. he is a politcal prisoner.
he has gaurds come into his room every five minutes. he is not allowed to excersise in his cell at will.
he is in solitary confinement. he does not have a pillow and a sheet. he has bed sores on his body.
a friend of his and a journalist got detained yesterday for tryin to deliver a petition with over 40,000 names on it.

he is a pollitcal prisoner. compare him to oliver north...did oliver north get treated this way.
do you think it is correct that the usa acts outside the rule of law. it is becoming the norm or that is how it looks from europe....

kx
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