Emptiness and Nirvana

reply to post by Tamahu

You know what I meant, about the love we have for people forming part of our overall attachment.

Very interesting quotes by Sam.

Looks like we've joined the circle, again, unless we're going to do the judgement thing, again.

I suppose what I mean by that, not to appear rude, is that perhaps instead of doing this continual mutual plucking of splinters from eyes, and I get that, about how when we subject ourselves willingly, to the scrutiny of others, and hold out our maps of reality for their inspection, that we subject ourselves to a process leading, eventually, to increasing humility, and a shrinking or dissolving of ego - maybe we could, after all that unpleasant business is over, actaully get to HAVE an authentic human interaction in relation to these ideas, or to THE IDEA, and get present to that instead. This would require us to drop everything and leave it all behind, at the end of the "contest", like that allegorical boxing match I created between a couple of masters (which was supposed to be funny, the very notion of it, of a spiritual competition).

Then we can begin to explore "Big Mind" and "Big Heart" together, in an increasing depth of mutual understanding, right from our own perspective, without deferring to anyone, or any thing, and speak to the person, instead of the library.

as I bring in Adi Da one more time, being the hypocrite that I am.

It was never my intention to degenerate this thread into a barbaric boxing match.

What was aimed for rather, was more along the lines of a Judo or Aikido Randori, or perhaps a Karate-Do Bunkai.

Amongst the back and forth, there might have been some accidental instinctive punches or kicks that were mechanical reactions based on perceived aggression that was not actually there.

If there was any harm done on my part, I again apologize.


Salaam!

reply to post by Tamahu


No need, but I'm curious about anything that might have arisen for anyone (if not for you) in the process of this thread. Me I found an ocean pearl, and recognized and found the mirth and the humour which leaped out at me right away on page one when asked to consider where desire is in the spirit, that really set me off! It confirmed for me something I've only suspected before, but often wondered where it was coming from, and whether or not I might be insane for wanting to laugh out loud maniacally when these ah ha moments come from time to time.

So I got a LOT out of it, personally, but I don't want to be selfish, and was wondering what might be going on for people, if anyone "grokked" anything, or was moved, changed or transformed in any way as I feel I have been through my own participation.

Perhaps it's a slightly different frame of reference, where I take these people, and their words, as well as my own and everyone else's, seriously, and at face value, whereby communication is direct and immediate, and provocative.

It's not just words, but food, enjoyment, something immediate, not at arms length as a mere curiosity, or a piece of factual data that I can bookmark, although that's all very helpful, to a point.

Now, my dreams at night are pure, and I wake up in God, and am able to recall to presence that space of mirth in liberation from fear, and selfish clinging. For me, that is absolutely priceless, so I'm very greatful for that, thank you.

All the very best,

NAM
aka Rob

You see, we're talking here about the sacred thing, and it's very good to be informative, but how can we talk ABOUT such a thing dispassionately? How can we NOT be moved by it?

There was a story I read somewhere, from a book on Zen Buddhism by Ken Wilber it might have been (can't remember), where these two adepts were heading to a masters house for dinner, who they'd never met in person, and so, after they sat down, he says to them "So, I hear you guys know something about Zen?", in resonse to which they threw their chopsticks at him!, and, while I don't know what happened then, I'm sure they all had a big laugh.

Zen stories do make me laugh or smile at times.


Did you happen to read the Sermon of Nasreddin that I posted earlier?

reply to post by Tamahu


Yes, a very effective sermon delivered in three parts. That guy was brilliant, I could learn from him about what not to say.

I've heard it said, and may have demonstrated it myself.. that

"There is a very fine line, at times, between holiness, and assholiness."

NewAgeMan, this is not directed at you or even at your beliefs.

It is getting posted here only to link the relevance of the words of your recent post to the topic of this thread!

"Total: 9 doors or openings in the physical body.

"The anus is the exit door through which we throw all the waste, all of that which is not good for our human organism.

"The Ninth Door or ninth gate is the sexual organ; it is that door from which we take pure life.

"These nine doors are related to our five senses in the physical body, which in the book The Bhagavad-Gita the Lord Krishna refers as "the sacred city of nine doors." We have to take care of those nine doors in order to know how to develop the spiritual elements that we need to have inside of us."

"By vocalising, by putting into activity the throat, controlled by the Holy Spirit, one transmutes the sexual energy, from the sexual organs, which is the Holy Tabernacle of Jehovah Elohim. We have to be careful what we say."

Kanda (Sanskrit)

"This is situated between the anus and the root of the reproductory organ. It is like the shape of an egg and is covered with membranes. This is just above the Muladhara Chakra. All the Nadis of the body spring from this Kanda. It is in the junction where Sushumna is connected with Muladhara Chakra."

Introduction to Tibetan Medicine

"Now I will explain the type, location and function of rLung. There are five types of rLung.

"The first is called Srog-'dzin (life-grasping rLung). Its location is in the brain and its functions are the swallowing of food, inhalation and spitting, eructation and sneezing, clearing the senses and intellect, and steadying of the mind.

"The second type of rLung is Gyen-rgyu (upward moving rLung). Its location is in the chest and its functions are responsible for speech, the increase of bodily vigour and health, the giving of lustre to the skin and the promotion of mental endeavour and diligence.

"The third type of rLung is Khyab-byed (all pervading rLung). Its location is in the heart. Its locations is responsible for lifting, walking, stretching, grasping of limbs, the opening and closing of the mouth, eyelids, anus etc.

"The fourth type of rLung is Me-mnyam (fire accompanying rLung). Its location is in the stomach and its function is to promote digestion and the metabolism, and ripen the seven bodily sustainers known as lus-zung dhun.

"The fifth type of rLung is Thur-sel (downward cleansing rLung). Its location is in the rectum and its function is to expel faeces, urine, semen, menstruation and the foetus. This is a brief explanation of rLung."

"You see for instance what can you obtain in your Genes, in your sexual genes - because the sexual organ transmits and gives energies - when you connect your sexual organs in another ways (the normal way is the phallus within the vagina that is the normal way) but when the phallus enters into the anus it takes vibrations of the excrement that alter the Genotype and as a consequence degenerate Phenotypes and sicknesses appear in the physical world. So that is degeneration."

"Since both Chinese and Tibetan Buddhism base their practice of ethical self-discipline on Vasubandhu's texts, their lineages still include homosexuality in their lists of inappropriate sexual behavior."

-Alexander Berzin

"It's part of what we Buddhists call 'bad sexual conduct.' Sexual organs were created for reproduction between the male element and the female element and everything that deviates from that is not acceptable from a Buddhist point of view. Between a man and man, a woman and another woman, in the mouth, the anus, or even using a hand."

- His Holiness the Dalai Lama

("Reproduction" also refers to the Multiplication of the Spiritual Fruitfulness (Ojas) of Chaste Sexual Transmutation)

Chapter 20: The Wisdom of Understanding-Adi Da.
This moment is the moment of reality, of union, of truth. The only truth is radical truth. Even the moment of self-indulgence, of avoidance, of separativeness is the moment of reality. Nothing needs to be done to it or you for it to be so. Nothing needs to be accomplished, purified, undone for it to be so. Nothing needs to be avoided, transcended or found for it to be so. This is the greatness of truth, of understanding, for it disarms all fear, all circumstance, all dilemma. It is always already the case. We are never at any moment in the dilemma we fear ourselves to be. Only this radical understanding in the heart of life is the ground of real peace and joy. All else is seeking and strife and fear. Therefore, it is not a matter that concerns us exclusively, apart from anything else. It is not an alternative to any experience. It is always already the case. This radical understanding is the only real liberation, and it alone is the truth and realization of this moment. Every motive is seeking. Every turning away is avoidance. Every turning upwards is avoidance. Every turning downwards is avoidance. Every turning towards is avoidance. All these things are seeking, for they are not abiding now in the form of reality. Thus, to turn at all is to act. And every turning will awaken the reaction of turning the opposite way in time. The truth is radical non-avoidance moment to moment. It is to live this moment, this event without conflict, directly. Where there is understanding there is no turning, and every action turns no way at all, for there is only radical consciousness behind it, turning no way, knowing only great bliss. The way is only radical understanding, which is free consciousness. If a man begins to understand, then he will abide in understanding, and he will not come into conflict with his moments, his motives, his actions, his reactions. He will abide now, and now, and now. And this alone, not any motive or search or effect of these, will transform the complex of his living. And that complex will never be his concern, to transform it or escape it or transcend it, for he lives in understanding and draws joy even in pleasure, in ignorance, in failure, in suffering, pain and death. Only because he abides in understanding is he already free, already liberated from his life. Therefore, I affirm only understanding and no state or object yet to be attained. It is not a matter of Without understanding, the pleasure-seeker avoids purity and sublime awareness in the forceful repetition of experience. And, without understanding, the holy seeker flees bad company in fear, and every counter to his purity and attainment spurs his anger and motivates his forceful ascent. But the man of understanding is not concerned with purity or pleasure. y first or at last, nor of sanity, nor wealth, well-being, goodness or vision. All these are the imagery of search, the vanity of external peace. Understanding is the ground of this moment, this event. Therefore, enjoy it, for you alone are the one who must live your ends and all the stages of time. The man who understands, who is always already free, is never touched by the divisions of the mind. And he alone is standing when all other beings and things have gone to rise or fall. I do not recommend self-indulgence. It is separative. Nor do I recommend the avoidance of self-indulgence, for it is also separative. I recommend no motives at all and no active goals. I do not turn men's attention to such things at all but only to understanding, whatever motives are already active in them. Thus, the holy and profane will know the only peace, even while they are holy and profane. The seeker is happy only in his desired condition. If he pursues pleasure, then he feels full only when embracing his objects. And if he pursues some higher, divine or spiritual goal, then he feels full only in sublime conditions, and he can tolerate only degrees of purity. In either case, the only real fullness is in understanding. Without understanding, the pleasure-seeker avoids purity and sublime awareness in the forceful repetition of experience. And, without understanding, the holy seeker flees bad company in fear, and every counter to his purity and attainment spurs his anger and motivates his forceful ascent. But the man of understanding is not concerned with purity or pleasure. He is deep in the consciousness of understanding, and all events do not amount to a dilemma for him. He is a man of joy and pleasure, of love and knowledge, ability and help, detachment, calm, energy, clarity and force. He knows all desires are exclusive, and so he is not concentrated in desire. He knows desire is neither true nor false, and therefore he does not avoid desire. For him, desires are only events, and he knows it is fruitless and impossible to avoid circumstances. And so, even though he desires, he only understands. Therefore, he appears as any other peculiar man, except he bears a humor known only to understanding. The ascending ones proceed in fear, as fearful as the descending ones. They live by exploiting themselves and those who follow, for they are only desirers, like the rest. There is no unique and free man in all the world, except the an who always understands. And he is impossible to find. Therefore, understand. Through understanding and enquiry these is an end to all seeking. Understanding is no-seeking. The great peace of being, of no search, has a locus analogous to the right side of the chest. Sri Ramana Maharshi said that this was the place of the Self, and he cited references in various Scriptures in support of his assertion. It is my experience that when there is an utter cessation of seeking, and the mind and the whole living being is not motivated to move out to various objects, high or low, then consciousness is seated in the area analogous to the right side of the chest. It is not in fact there, in the chest, but it knows every body and every life function from there. That is, if there were to be a movement out, the energy would appear to have to rise to go to the throat. and head, and to descend to go into the solar plexus and below. Consciousness in this state of no-seeking merely observes whatever comes to it or is communicated to it from the various centers below and above. Even the motive of love that moves in the heart chakra is observed by it. It is not in any way to be identified with any chakra or creative center. It is pure and most prior consciousness. In Vedanta he is called the Witness, who neither wakes nor sleeps nor dreams. He is Siva even while knowing his consort, Shakti. However, it is my experience that this state of noseeking is not itself the form of reality. In terms of the great search it seems to be liberation itself, the great release. So it is, and I would call it the heart of understanding, the center of all being. But reality is not noseeking as a special or exclusive state. It is unqualified. It is not merely the Witness. It is unqualified being. And when there is the manifestation of existence it is manifested as existence. But there is no dilemma. Thus, when understanding has realized itself as no-seeking in the heart it does not remain there as an exclusive concentration of the mind. When no-seeking is realized in the heart there is simply no-seeking, no concentration. One becomes the heart. All the functions of one's being become the heart. The heart becomes the constant locus of all activity. There is no separate one to concentrate in it. Thus, one who has realized himself as no-seeking in the heart also realizes the Form of Reality, the circuit of life, the Amrita Nadi. He becomes present as that Form, which contains all things. He is free, blissful, creatively alive. Thus, he is not only no-seeking, which is freedom. He is eternally present, which is bliss and no-dilemma.

"And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffers violence, and the violent take it by force. For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John."

"Javhe eventually will return to his Inner Star, because "A baseball player would say:" "The end is equal to the beginning, plus the experience of the inning" (or the chance for accomplishment)!

"However, he has to pay first what he owes throughout many Mahamanvantaras!"

Originally posted by Tamahu

NewAgeMan, this is not directed at you or even at your beliefs.

It is getting posted here only to link the relevance of the words of your recent post to the topic of this thread!

assholiness.. !

oh God that's funny, thanks for sharing!

reply to post by Tamahu


I hope THAT one wasn't directed at or towards me!

If so, then DUDE, that would be some VERY heavy judgement you'd be laying on me, just for being self expressed! My God!

Forgive me, but it makes me wonder what the consequences would be of raising the kundalini without possessing great LOVE for the adorable one..

No, it was not directed towards you.

As for raising the Kundalini–as was already shown–it only rises according to the Merits of the Heart.

Moreover, it is said that Bodhisattvas who raise the Kundalini and then afterwards fall, accumulate very serious karma which is of treason and results in Damnation.

I think then, it's probably best just to be good for goodness sake, and love for the sake of love.
Otherwise, we can place ourselves in a very precarious spiritual position, where what goes up, could come down again.
Btw, if there any sort of "conspiratorial" evidence showing any Jesuit involvement in the development of Gnosticism or Gnostic literature? Just curious.

reply to post by NewAgeMan


I would not be surprised if the Jesuits have tried to intentionally sabotage the Gnostic teachings.

Samael Aun Weor wrote that H.P. Blavatsky is an Adept Yogi who later in her life worked with the Kundalini after she remarried H.S. Olcott. And H.P. Blavatsky wrote quite a bit about the dirty dealings of the Jesuits.

Samael Aun Weor also wrote that the main centers of corruption in the Western world are found in the Vatican and with the Zionists (in the East, said corruption is said to be found in China and with the Drukpas).

Although this does not mean that authentic Saints have not been found within the Roman Catholic church. Samael Aun Weor wrote about some of them in his writings.

It is implied by some, that two Jesuits: Athanasius Kircher and Malachi Martin, were of the White Lodge. But this is only speculation. And I'm also not quite sure if Adam Weishaupt was of the Black Lodge or White Lodge.

Do you believe, as a Gnostic, that we can engineer our own salvation through the use of chastity and various specialized meditations and pieces of knowledge, and/or by the accumulation of self merit? Also, do you believe in the power of an intercessory grace? I'm just wondering about the degree to which a person could be cleaned up, karmic-ly, though a simple faith, and a simple loving devotion..?

reply to post by NewAgeMan

The Three Mountains: On Limbo and Purgatory (pages 12 through 17)

Samael Aun Weor wrote:

"Thelema is our motto."

"Love is the Law, Love under the Will of God!"

"Thy Will (Θελημα) be done, on Earth as it is in Heaven." - Matthew 6:10

"God helps those who help themselves."

Love can be seen in three ways:

Father: The love you have for your inner God.

Son: The love you have for all suffering beings.

Holy Spirit: The love you have for your spouse (or your divine soul if you are married to her).

They are three and one at the same time!

"The true devotee humbles himself before God, the Mother.

"If the devotee sincerely wishes to correct his errors and tread upon the holy path, then he may ask his Divine Mother to pardon his past karma and She will forgive him.

"Yet, if the devotee does not correct his errors or does not follow the holy path, then it is useless to ask for pardon for she will not grant it.

"The Divine Mother will forgive her truly repented children. She can forgive the karma of her children because She knows how Her children behave.

"The Divine Mother can forgive the karma of evil actions from past incarnations.

"When repentance is absolute, punishment is worthless." - Samael Aun Weor

I looked for Rasputin, the Sacred Devil. I wanted to talk to that strange Monk before whom so many princes, counts, dukes and marquises of the Russian nobility had shuddered; but here instead of one ego, I saw many egos, all of them part of the same ego of “the Monk” Gregory Rasputin.

I had before my spiritual sight, in the total presence of my Cosmic Being, a bunch of devils; a pluralized “I” within which there was only one worthy element. I am referring to the Essence.

Since I could not find a single responsible individual, I approached one of those abominable grotesque creatures that passed nearby: “This is where you ended up, Rasputin. This was the result of your unruly life and your many orgies and vices.”

“You are mistaken, Samael,” answered the monstrous figure, as if to defend or justify his sensual life. Then he added: “What you are lacking is intuition.”

“You cannot deceive me, Rasputin.” These were my last words. Then I left that sinister place situated in the Limbo of Orcus of the classics, at the entrance of the submerged mineral kingdom.

"If Rasputin had not done so much charitable work in his life, by now he would be undergoing devolution over time within the submerged worlds, under the Earth’s crust, within the dwelling of Pluto." - Samael Aun Weor

"The initiate has to pass through his own Kamaduro and Karmasaya:

"Karmasaya is related with adultery all of these lustful problems that we created within. Kamaduro relates to fornication; in the end the Lord has to physically die within the initiate because - physically speaking - that initiate that bodhisattva in previous lives and in this present life was fornicating. Thus, it is written:

"Wherefore I say unto you, all manner of sin and blasphemy (karma) shall be forgiven unto men: but (Kamaduro and Karmasaya) the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men." – Matthew 12: 31

"All of us are sinners against the Holy Spirit in this life or in previous lives. So we have to die physically in order for the Lord to resurrect and we to resurrect within him. This is why Jesus died on the cross and this is why all great initiates die but resurrect after death..."

Excellent references, thanks.

You see, since framing and context is everything, I was curious as to how all this would fit in with or "square" with the apex of the highest expression of the law and the prophets, and of the Christ - to love God above all, and neighbor as self. This is also an outcropping or logical extension, of Oneness, within the context of a differentiated family of God.

If there is one thing I do know, it is, without that love, all our efforts are in vain, and apart from it, we can accomplish nothing and whatever fruitfullness we think we may have accumulated within our body temple, dies on the vine, since it is love which joins us one to another and to God, and hatred, that separates, and places enmity between people, and thus between man and God, as the inverse of the same law of life and love.