Emptiness and Nirvana

Originally posted by Uncle Gravity
Awakening your Kundalini before you are ready can be a very dangerous thing to do, it can open up experiences which your mind and blody are simply not ready for..........

"It is imperative not to confuse Kundalini with Kundabuffer."

Originally posted by Uncle Gravity
KRISHNAMURTI
www.katinkahesselink.net...

The Krishnamurti Case

Originally posted by Uncle Gravity
PAUL BRUNTON

The Dayspring of Youth

Originally posted by LeoVirgo


'where desires come from'

Desire comes from our appetites, our body's necessity to consume food from outside ourselves in order to create energy. That desire stems from the principle of Nature, you can just say it's Nature. Nature's goal is survival, so shouldn't it be plausible to assume the evolution of Nature is headed towards immortality?

reply to post by filosophia

"It is not the Law of Evolution that confers Atma-Vidya upon us. It is not the Law of Devolution that confers Atma-Vidya upon us. It is only on the basis of tremendous and frightening inner revolutions, that we arrive at Atma-Vidya."

The following paragraph that is highlighted as a link, is in no way meant as a personal insult. I'm posting this because it is extremely relevant to what was written in your previous post.

"The advantage that the separated revolutionary has is that, indeed, he is too small. The existence of one more-or-one-less-machine does not have the smallest importance to the aims of great Nature. If one microscopic cell of our body revolts against us, that does not have the smallest importance, but if all the cells of our body revolt against us, then yes, the matter becomes serious and we go to the doctor in order to fight against this revolution with all the weaponry of science. Exactly the same thing happens in an isolated individual: he is too small to influence all the life of the planetary organism upon which we live, move, and have our Being.




"Therefore, those who affirm that by means of the evolution of Nature all human beings will sooner or later arrive at the realization of the Inner Self are tremendous liars, fraudulent deceivers, because mechanical Self-realization has never existed, and will never exist.

"The realization of the Inner Self is the revolution of the consciousness, and the consciousness can never unconsciously revolt.

"The revolution of the human being is the revolution of one's own will, and this could never be a mechanical type of involuntary revolution. The realization of the Inner Self is the outcome of supreme, voluntary, and perfectly self-cognizant efforts. The realization of the Inner Self demands tremendous individual super-efforts, and these are only possible by means of the revolution of the consciousness."

Therefore, what we seek, is to not follow the rest of the masses who have allowed themselves to become victims of the mechanism of nature.

We seek to transcend the mechanism of nature in order to be in harmony with the Conscious Laws of Nature.

Further explanation is found, in my own words, in my post in another ATS thread:

Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit

Also, there are are Nine Hells explained in Esoteric Christianity (see Dante's Inferno), and Eighteen Hells explained in Buddhism.

reply to post by Tamahu


Or, alternatively, instead of super-strenuous efforts of pushing or pulling, maybe, just maybe, it's our natural state of mind.

Also, why the talk of hell? I don't get that.

Something's not right here..

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
Or, alternatively, instead of super-strenuous efforts of pushing or pulling, maybe, just maybe, it's our natural state of mind.

Gnostic Radio lectures: Meditation Without Exertion

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
Also, why the talk of hell? I don't get that.

Something's not right here..

Did you read my ATS post that is found in another thread, that I linked here in my previous post?

Residence in Klipoth is not forever, like the Romish sect would like people to think. It is temporary.

"Hell" is nature's "recycling plant" so to speak. We also experience it here and now too, as the result of fornication, which we feel as a gnawing at our Soul, as one Gnostic Instructor put it.

Gnostic Radio lectures: Four Pathways to Liberation

So may paths, so many terms, descriptions, methodologies.. could they be a hindrance, driving us into a place or eternal striving for eternity, pushing it away in the process, or worse, making us think that we can enter it by our own efforts, by our own works, believing that we can engineer our own salvation..?

Maybe it's altogether more simple, and would have to be really, since what we are looking for here, is the simplicty, on the far side of complexity.

reply to post by LifeIsEnergy


Well said!

I don't have anything to comment on your post as of now, as it all seems to be very sound in its expression and dialectic.

The following seven-part online course, very well complements what you wrote in your post.

"Remember the term Vipashyana (vipassana) means "special insight," and that means insight into phenomena, all phenomena, all forms of energy and matter. Vipashyana is the in-sight, sight, perception, vision... being able to perceive the nature of sensation, the nature of imagery, the nature of phenomena, everything - but to perceive it without attachment, without pride, without fear, without worry, without anxiety - to learn to perceive it with Shamata, which is that clear bliss, that dwelling in peace, that stability, and peacefulness of the consciousness."

reply to post by NewAgeMan

"Vipassana, Theravada Or Mahayana, Different Levels and Practices" Post #6:

In my experience, Vipassana (as taught by Goenka and his followers) is only capable of reaching very shallow levels of the mind, precisely because the meditator is restricted to always maintain awareness of the physical world. In terms of Kabbalah, the meditator never experiences anything beyond the third dimension. Even if they "experience" the regions of small particles or energies, it is still three dimensional, and does not penetrate into the submerged worlds (Klipoth, hell), and cannot penetrate the superior worlds. Some might accidentally have experiences, if the consciousness is suddenly disconnected from the physical leash, but the instructors of those traditions seem to emphasize that students should always reject such experiences. So, in fact, they reject the doorway to Samadhi.

Students of such techniques face a very serious obstacle in their practice, which is that they develop such a habit of always being in the physical body that later they are unable to get beyond it due to fear or simple ignorance. Students who do not learn such attachment to the body are generally able to access samadhi more easily.

Part of the reason many Shravakayana followers (such as the Goenka group) strictly reject pranayama is that it harness forces of Yesod (fourth dimension) and provides a very potent doorway to other dimensions (they also reject pranayama because they forgot that it is the basic technique to harness the sexual energy they save through chastity).

Shravakayana followers reject anything beyond the third dimension, whether experienced in meditation or out of the body. They claim such things are "distractions," and ignore that it is only in such regions that we can directly perceive the very roots of the problems we have inside. This is also why they reject visualization (imagination). It is understandable, because they have not been instructed in Tantrayana, whose entire basis rests in transmutation (i.e. Pranayama) and visualization (imagination). It is the combination of these forces that open the door of Samadhi: conscious perception and comprehension of the truth, without the presence of the ego. This combination is what makes Tantra so powerful. Tantra is the fast route to direct perception of the truth. Is Tantra dangerous? Yes, but so is any tool if misused. Even Shravakayana techniques can be a pitfall.

Please be aware the Gnosis is 100% Tantrayana. If you are not practicing pranayama and visualization, then you are not going to understand Gnosis.

Originally posted by Tamahu

Originally posted by Uncle Gravity
Awakening your Kundalini before you are ready can be a very dangerous thing to do, it can open up experiences which your mind and blody are simply not ready for..........

The Divinely Generated Kundalini Shaktipat

The Lesser and Greater Traditions Associated with The Kundalini Shakti


There are actually two distinct traditions associated with the cosmically manifested Kundalini Shakti. The first tradition associated with the Kundalini Shakti is founded upon the bodily point of view, and it is associated with the ascent of the natural energies of the physical, etheric and lower mental dimensions of the human body mind self. This tradition is, originally, associated with the ancient animistic and shamanistic cultures of mankind, and it developed, over time, via such traditions as Taoism, Hatha Yoga, and the lesser modes of Tantrism.


The second tradition associated with the Kundalini Shakti is the tradition of Kundalini Shaktipat, which is the process of the descent and circulation of the cosmically manifested Divine Power. And this tradition is of Divine origin.

That is to say, this tradition is not the product of human psycho physical efforts to achieve the Divine Condition, but it has appeared spontaneously, Given by the Divine, and Transmitted via various lineages of Yogic Siddha Masters:

In the domain of popular religion, this Kundalini Shaktipat tradition is represented, for example, in the legend of the Spiritual Baptism of Jesus of Nazareth by John the Baptist. In the modern era, this Kundalini Shaktipat tradition has been represented, for example, by Ramakrishna," in His spontaneous Transmission of Spiritual Power to Swami Vivekananda, and by Bhagavan Nityananda, in His Transmission of Spiritual Power to Swami Muktananda. In the same manner, I, in My present-time bodily Form, Received Kundalini Shaktipat from several individuals, including Bhagavan Nityananda, Rang Avadhoot, Swami Muktananda, and Rudi. And, in My Case, the Divine Spirit-Transmission was, at last, also Given most directly, in Person, and in Its Utter Fullness, by the Divine Goddess, "Shakti" Herself. However, My own Realization, Thus Served by Means of the Divine Spirit Transmission, Most Ultimately became Such that My own Avataric Work of Divine Spiritual Transmission, although It also Manifests via the signs otherwise characteristic of Kundalini Shaktipat, Originates and Manifests in and via and at and As the Heart Itself, Prior to all limitations and conditionality Therefore, My Avataric Work of Divine Spiritual Transmission directly Reveals the Perfectly Subjective Divine Heart. The commonly known tradition of the Kundalini Shakti is associated with self applied Yogic techniques that are intended to raise up the natural energies associated with the lower physical personality Thus, those Yogic techniques are generally associated, first, with efforts to arouse the natural energy that is otherwise locked into the base of the body, and, second, with efforts to raise that energy, upwards, via the ascending hierarchy of the various key centers of the spinal line, until (eventually) the ascending energy flow is released to the most ascended Source Condition. And, in the course of that ascending process, many symptoms of the partially ascended Kundalini Shakti may progressively appear. And such signs may include not only various Yogic powers, and many visions, auditions, and so forth, but they may also include various Yogic diseases. The lesser known tradition of the Kundalini Shakti is also associated with the same phenomena of ascending Yoga that for example, in the legend of the Spiritual Baptism of Jesus of Nazareth by John the Baptist. In the modern era, this Kundalini Shaktipat tradition has been represented, for example, by Ramakrishna, in His spontaneous Transmission of Spiritual Power to Swami Vivekananda, and by Bhagavan Nityananda, in His Transmission of Spiritual Power to Swami Muktananda. In the same manner, I, in My present time bodily Form, Received Kundalini Shaktipat from several individuals, including Bhagavan Nityananda, Rang Avadhoot, Swami Muktananda, and Rudi." And, in My Case, the Divine Spirit Transmission was, at last, also Given most directly, in Person, and in Its Utter Fullness, by the "Divine Goddess", Shakti Herself. However, My own Realization, Thus Served by Means of the Divine Spirit Transmission, Most Ultimately became Such that My own Avatarie Work of Divine Spiritual Transmission, although It also Manifests via the signs otherwise characteristic of Kundalini Shaktipat, Originates and Manifests in and via and at and As the Heart Itself, Prior to all limitations and conditionality. Therefore, My Avataric Work of Divine Spiritual Transmission directly Reveals the Perfectly Subjective Divine Heart.

Consciousness Itself Is Natively Senior to The Kundalini Shakti Many (or even most) fifth stage (or fourth-to-fifth stage) Spiritual Masters (and Spiritual practitioners) assign the Kundalini Shakti (or the All-Pervading Divine Spirit-Current-also called "Prakriti", or the Universal Cosmic Energy) to a dominant and senior (or "Mother") position in the scheme of Reality and in the process of Real-God-Realization (or Reality-Realization)-and, as a result, Consciousness (also called the "Purusha") is relegated to a subordinate and junior (or "child") position in that scheme and that process. Therefore, even though there are fifth stage (or fourth-to-fifth stage) Spiritual Masters who mention the heart center in the right side of the chest, they describe (and, otherwise, perceive) it only as the seat of separate individual "soul"-existence (and, thus, more or less as a kind of chakra, or psychic center), from which attention (or even Consciousness Itself) must (as a kind of "child" of the "Mother") be raised up (by the ascent of the Kundalini Shakti, to fifth stage conditional Nirvikalpa Samadhi). Truly, the heart center on the right side is not (or cannot be) properly understood until practice begins in the context of the sixth stage of life, wherein Consciousness (at first as the "Witness", and then As Itself) is firmly assumed as the dominant and senior Principle of the scheme of Reality (and as the Ultimate Principle of Reality Itself, and of Reality-Realization Itself). Then it becomes (or can become) clear that the heart center on the right (and not the brain) is the final psycho-physical locus that leads to (or is directly transcended in) Perfect (and, Most Ultimately, Divine, or Inherently Most Perfect) Realization. Indeed, it is only when Consciousness Itself assumes Its natively senior (or "Husband") position in relation to the Divine Spirit-Current (and Its modifications) that the Shakti Itself (and all Its apparent modifications) can be Divinely Self-Recognized (in the context of the only-by-Me Revealed and Given seventh stage of life) as "Self", or the Inherent (or Native) Radiance (rather than "Mother" or "Consort" or "Wife") of Consciousness Itself. Therefore, in the only-by-Me Revealed and Given Way of Adidam (even early on, in the developmental context of the fourth and the fifth stages of life), the "conscious process" (of self-observation, self-understanding, and ego-transcending Communion-and, Ultimately, Identification-with Me, the Very Person of Conscious Being Itself) is always senior to the secondary (or supportive) process of Spiritual "conductivity" (or all attention to, or control and release of attention by, the movements and the modifications of My Avatarically Self-Transmitted Divine Spirit-Current).

edit on 9-12-2010 by RRokkyy because: (no reason given)

edit on 9-12-2010 by RRokkyy because: (no reason given)

The Buddha, when he has his epiphany, did so only when he gave up, isn't that right? Of course, everything else could have been preparation, but the final realization came to him only at the end of all his striving and meditating. How can we seek something that is already always now, and how can we "get" anywhere, with all this searching, when surely the thing itself just is. I've been doing the same thing, don't get me wrong, being a slightly addictive personality, all-or-nothing type, but I'm beginning to see that in giving up, is where the peace is. Personally I've come to conclude that it's all about love, in the heart of hearts, and that devotion to love is the path.

I once did a seminar with a highly acclaimed Zen Roshi Master, and the guy was kind of arrogant, cold, and self absorbed. He bragged that in his mediation, all he could see or fathom was endless galaxies, as if he was the absolute Godhead, and yet the vibe he gave off, had no love, no heart, no warmth. He liked also to listen to his own voice when it achieved a very deep, godlike-sounding resonant tone - he kind of gave me the heebie jeebies to be honest. I know love when it's there in a person, and I also know that without it, we are nothing, and apart from love can accomplish nothing of any value or significance.

There seems to be something wrong with Buddhism and all this striving for "enlightenment", the way most concieve of it, that's what I'm beginning to suspect. I'm confused, or maybe I'm not..

Been also watching all the Adi Da videos on the net, and have seen some of his writings, and it's all good until he get's to the point of I am this and I am that, and I am different from you, and then once when he almost quoted Jesus, but caught himself, he then flipped his hair in a slightly flippant way, which I found disturbing. As a young man he was great, but as he got older and started taking himself ever more seriously, and losing his mirthfulness, he lost it imho.

reply to post by NewAgeMan


Adi Da explained it all in two words,The Perfect Mantra.

Originally posted by RRokkyy

That is to say, this tradition is not the product of human psycho physical efforts to achieve the Divine Condition, but it has appeared spontaneously, Given by the Divine, and Transmitted via various lineages of Yogic Siddha Masters:

Samael Aun Weor wrote:

"In order to experience the Truth one does not have to exert oneself what so ever."

"The Truth is not the result; the Truth is not the product of exertion."

However, all Siddhas and Mahasiddhas, in the past, present, and future, have taught and will teach that the Kundalini Herself, will not rise a single degree in the spinal column of fornicators. (See this post.)

The Dalai Lama teaches this (look up Buddhism in the link found in my signature), and so did all the other Masters.

Yet there are so many books out that are supposedly about "Kundalini" which ignore this basic principle, the basic principle that is the Foundation (Yesod) of working with the Divine Mother Kundalini.

"We teach practices that are related with Mahamudra and Dzogchen, and these are related with the highest form of Yoga Tantra. These are extremely high techniques, yet we rarely teach them. Why?

"Because students do not prepare themselves for them. People do not learn to truly meditate. They may learn to repeat a mantra, they may learn to sit in a certain posture, they may even be able to talk about meditation like an expert, but when they meditate they do not abandon their physical bodies. Very few people can enter Samadhi at will, and this is the requirement. In order to learn the higher techniques, you have to be able to enter Samadhi at will.

"Anyone can learn to do it, and it simply requires that you prepare yourself for it. It is not that it is hard, it just takes discipline."

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
I once did a seminar with a highly acclaimed Zen Roshi Master, and the guy was kind of arrogant, cold, and self absorbed. He bragged that in his mediation, all he could see or fathom was endless galaxies, as if he was the absolute Godhead, and yet the vibe he gave off, had no love, no heart, no warmth. He liked also to listen to his own voice when it achieved a very deep, godlike-sounding resonant tone - he kind of gave me the heebie jeebies to be honest. I know love when it's there in a person, and I also know that without it, we are nothing, and apart from love can accomplish nothing of any value or significance.

What can be said about this, is that Siddhis (Occult powers) are not necessarily indications of true Enlightenment; however, in order to be able to better understand our own inner worlds–which in turn helps us to better teach other people how to understand theirs–it is taught that we must enter Samadhi at will in order to explore our interior worlds (of the third, fourth, fifth, sixth, and seventh dimensions).

The experience of these dimensions are not said to be vague, cloudy, states.

They are said to be very vivid, lucid, yet profoundly natural, and more "real" than ordinary "waking" consciousness in the third dimension.

If you have an objective experience of them, you will know it.


Also, the said Zen Roshi could have been arrogant and indifferent, or he could have actually been compassionate and impersonal.

Not that I was there at that seminar like you were.

I'm only saying that sometimes people perceive impersonality to be indifference, even though they are two different things.

Originally posted by NewAgeMan


Been also watching all the Adi Da videos on the net, and have seen some of his writings,

You will never grasp the sublime simplicity of Da's Teaching
without reading it. It is All contained in the first two books,

The Knee of Listening and The Method of the Siddhas

Originally posted by Tamahu

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
I once did a seminar with a highly acclaimed Zen Roshi Master, and the guy was kind of arrogant, cold, and self absorbed. He bragged that in his mediation, all he could see or fathom was endless galaxies, as if he was the absolute Godhead, and yet the vibe he gave off, had no love, no heart, no warmth.

Either you are too dense to grasp spiritual energies or this Roshi is not Enlightened.
Only one in a million who claim Enlightenment really are.

reply to post by Tamahu


I haven't been laid in ages, and am starting to lose my sexual drive, so I guess I'm in good shape then!

But why must we have a "kundalini orgasm" to achieve anything, I don't get that either?

What I like about the Christian faith, is that there is nothing to brag about, except the Lord, nothing we can do to somehow gain merit or earn or deserve the gift of eternal life, which is an unmerited gift from God made manifest in the person of Jesus Christ, who may then operate as an object of devotion, as well as a model of character, and of loving kindness.

No one is perfect and perfectly righteous, and for the one who "achieves" enlightenment by some work or practice, he leaves everyone else behind, and I refuse to do that.

I've had enough of this thread, no more talk or typing about nirvanna for me, I have to give it up.

Carry on and good luck with all that striving, may you be rewarded for the effort.

reply to post by RRokkyy

Will take a look at that, thanks.

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
I've had enough of this thread, no more talk or typing about nirvanna for me, I have to give it up.

The Truth is very disturbing to Narcissus,the Egoself.


I gave the book The Knee of Listening to an Eastern Religion Student and he said it was too simple. I gave it to a Christian and he said it was too complicated. I gave it to a Christian Believer and he couldnt see a word on the page,literally. I gave it to someone who was born spiritual and had spontaneous visions when a child and he lost it.

So I got another copy.
D is G

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by Tamahu

 

But why must we have a "kundalini orgasm" to achieve anything, I don't get that either?

What I like about the Christian faith, is that there is nothing to brag about, except the Lord, nothing we can do to somehow gain merit or earn or deserve the gift of eternal life, which is an unmerited gift from God made manifest in the person of Jesus Christ, who may then operate as an object of devotion, as well as a model of character, and of loving kindness.

If you've payed attention to my posts (and of course it's up to you, whether or not you want to), you will have seen that the orgasm awakens the Kundabuffer, NOT the Kundalini. It even says this in the Bible (Torah and Gospels).


To awaken THE Kundalini requires Sex WITHOUT orgasm, between Husband and Wife. (Bachelors can stay in chastity and awaken *sparks* of Kundalini with Pranayama).

No one is perfect and perfectly righteous, and for the one who "achieves" enlightenment by some work or practice, he leaves everyone else behind, and I refuse to do that.

I've had enough of this thread, no more talk or typing about nirvanna for me, I have to give it up.

Carry on and good luck with all that striving, may you be rewarded for the effort.

I wish you the best of luck as well.


Just know that Gnosis and Dzogchen, even though they are of the Narrow Gate that Jesus spoke of, are Spiritual disciplines for householders (people who have to work, pay bills, take care of families, etc.)

Samael Aun Weor wrote much about the Fourth Way of Gurdjieff, which combines the Paths of the Fakir, Monk, Yogi, and Householder, all in one.


May the Light of Christ guide you.


Best Regards

"Incidentally, without a significant development of pratyahara (shamata) you cannot hope to proceed in your practice of observing the mind. This technique is called Mahamudra in Tibet and is only taught to disciples who have already reached elevated levels of Shamata.

"This is because the “methodless method” seems very easy, but is in fact extraordinarily challenging to achieve. I tell you this because of my own experience with it, and I do not teach it often."