Without Gov telling you how to live, would you actually have any sort of life?

Here is an interesting question i think.

If gov and ptb where not running things, would humans be unable to live any sort of life worth living?
We saw in the past that only in last couple of centuries people started to read and that came from forced schooling.

So are the ptb right in that they assert that without them, we could not live a life, and would not be any better than animals.

Do you think if the ptb where not telling us how to live and what humans should be, would we still be like unable to read, and be virtually just animals not using our minds to create some sort of life for ourselves.

Are the ptb right?

If the Governments were not applying their " How to live " directives then it would simply fall back to the great pre-government powers... the church.
We would be under the influence of the church as we were for centuries before the men of political power worked out the formula for overtaking the religious leaders.

reply to post by Dragon33


How would most of us be without church or state dictating to us.

I am just asking people here do you think the ptb are right that we cannot use our own minds, and we have to be forced to live a life thats worth living. If the church and state was not here, what would all our lifes be like?

Have you people considered that the ptb may be right in saying we may need to be dictated too, just so we can live a life.

Originally posted by Dragon33
If the Governments were not applying their " How to live " directives then it would simply fall back to the great pre-government powers... the church.
We would be under the influence of the church as we were for centuries before the men of political power worked out the formula for overtaking the religious leaders.

I think the church is among the ones who govern our lives one way or another.Maybe now more from the backstage than they used to but they are still here.
I think the OP means if non of them existed(goverment-tptb-church) or any other form of leadership.
It's a good point you make there Andy and never thought about it.I think that we might have found a way to evolve.Its in the human nature to be curious.Maybe there would be more illiterate people,but being in the animal level and not using our brains...i don't think so.Even the apes are better than that.

You have to ask yourself why do you do the things you do now...Because someone tells you, or because you want to?

Why do we learn anything, because someone forces us or because we want to. When you graduated from high school, did you continue to learn things? Was there a hunger for knowledge...knowledge that would improve your life?

My belief is that there will always be those that don't try to do better...and they will whine and complain about how the "system" or the "man" or "tptb" or the NWO is/are keeping them down.

Then there are those that will always do better, it is in their nateure to strive for more...to continue to learn... to see what is over the next horizon, to see if they might improve their lot in life if they try harder or try something different.

I graduated with a BS in Commercial Design back in the '80s. Along comes a computer program and I am obsolete... a dinosaur. So what do i do? ...await a government program, complain about how unfair things are...whine about how the system is against me? NO...I go to night school and learn about real estate and investing... all the while working retail and work my way into management.

What about personal and social and cultural developement? If no one forced you, would you read books...would you even try? Would you listen to music you've never heard before.... maybe some R&B from the early 50s..maybe an Opera...maybe actually read some Shakespeare... or would you sit and eat Cheeto's and dive deeper into conspiracies that really have no impact on your life...maybe whine how Europe has more vacation days than the US.?

YOU are responsible for YOU. Go out and live life and become the YOU that YOU want to be.

I suspect we will never find the answer to this question. There's always been tribal leaders, kings, pharaohs, churches, governments around to tell people how to act and live.

reply to post by Phantom traveller


The problem is without gov forcing us to goto school, would we in most part not be able to read and write still?

William cooper always said that the ptb view us as people who do not use there intelligence so are no better than an animal who has no intelligence. I think they may have a point there.

I was just asking whether people think the following term is correct, that supposedly the ptb use.

"A human who does not use there intelligence are fodder for the ptb as they are just like animals who do not have any intelligence" i.e the ptb view us as just animals, as we do not for the most part use our intelligence, so are no better than an animal that has no intelligence.

I am paraphrasing there but i think you get my drift. Are the ptb right?

Are humans who do not want the best they can be, or want to use there intelligence, just beasts of burdan, like any animal? Or another term just useless eaters?

Do you people think most of us are useless eaters, and are better than no animal?

i do not need a goverment to tell me what to do. I do not need a goverment to tell em that working together, to better ourselves is the right thing to so. I do not need any goverment for anything. And nor do any of you. We can quite happily carry on as we are, without ANY goverment intrusion. We just have to keep on doing what we're doing. We did need a goverment, fair enough, but we're well past that stage now. We have an infrastructure in place which we can work with. We have all the machines we need to build all the things we need.

We don;t need them any more. Piss off goverment, I for one, have had enough of you, and don;t need you.

well, the government doesn't really tell me how to live, so I guess things would be more or less the same except I wouldn't have to renew my driver's license every five years.

reply to post by andy1033


So go learn to read on your own. I taught myself to read and write before the first grade.

You dont need anyone to tell you what to do or to force you into "good" situations. Just go do it.

Every time I come up against some government mandate or limitation it sets me back. Sometimes years back. Whether it's the government telling me I have to waste time in some mandated gym class walking a lap rather than being permitted to use that time to go ride my bike 40 miles and subsequently gain 10 pounds and loose my CAT level or the government telling me I can't work for wages until I reach a certain age despite the work being entirely my own venture resulting in years of lost earnings. Will the government reimburse me for that?

Without government interference there's no telling how far I would have gone. They've successfully retarded my progress with their barriers and rules. I'm this close to stopping all productive endeavors and becoming a ward of the state. Nearly every dream and ambition I've had ran straight into a government wall.

You can either let go and ride the current or work within the system to rise to the top and become so wealthy the system doesnt matter anymore. But either way you're living within their rules so by definition your life is not your own and you have no freedom.

reply to post by Acidtastic


But the point of this thread was, without gov and church being here, would we all be no better than any animal, and just beasts of burdan to society? Just imagine what gov has done for us all, and what it would of been to live without all this stuff.

reply to post by thisguyrighthere


Gov has absolutely destroyed my life too, as i have no freedom what so ever, and i am talking literally there.

This thread was not about really what gov has did for you, i meant it as what if gov and things like church did not exist, would we be no more than animals?

That's the thing, you see, the government isn't supposed to tell us what to do. We are supposed to tell the government what to do. At least that's how it should be in the states.

What would happen if the government dropped all it's enforcements? Chaos...but phoenixes rise from their own ashes. Our generation might not know how to even begin to use their new freedom or resources, however, the generations that follow will live a life we never got to live and experience joy and freedom that was promised to us when the united states was born.

Why should a man ever tell another man how to live? Moreover, his bloodline?

reply to post by andy1033


That's absurd. Government isnt responsible for putting pen to paper or stick to sand or charcoal to stone. It isnt responsible for fire. It isnt responsible for preserved meat, cultivated plants, stitched leather, or the wheel. It isnt responsible for the coupling of humans and the birth of a child.

According to Harold Barclay, People Without Government: An Anthropology of Anarchism and plenty of peers the longest period of human history was spent in a state of anarchy and as our existence is proof they did not rot in a state of helpless animalistic chaos.

People believed in some god long before any church came and took power and people believed in discovery and education as a matter of the human condition long before any government came around and took power.

Humans are curious. They cannot spend much time grunting and sleeping in their own crap before discovering or inventing a better way. This does not require government. Never has and never will. Government can only retard this process.

reply to post by thisguyrighthere


But before compulsory schooling what percentage of people could read and write?See my point forcing us to do something, and without that where would we have been.

Can humans not decide for themselves to do these things without being forced into it.

I tend to think man would be much like the Native Americans of the 17th/18th century without government...or even the native"primitive" cultures from around the world.

Inquisitive, self sufficient, industrious, reactive to their local enviroments... a hard life but a good life I think.

reply to post by andy1033


Even with compulsory schooling many cannot read or write. Students routinely graduate from high school illiterate. You cant force a person to not be an idiot. The best you can do is train them like a dog to an acceptable level of idiocy. In turn this caps the level of success an individual can reach.

These people will not be moving on to very specialized careers with or without the ability to sound out the big words. School or no school they will still be laboring.

And as I said before I did not require school to learn to read. By the time I got to school I was ahead and bored.
Parents cant ignore their responsibilities expecting the schools to do their job for them and kids need to see early and plainly the value of education so that their pursuit is toward the intrinsic value not the extrinsic.

All school was when I was going through it is a place to buy drugs and get laid. According to my younger family members this has only gotten worse. Educational standards have fallen exponentially and the pervasiveness of sex and drugs has increased.

School is great for a high and some tail. For education you're better off sitting with a book.

Originally posted by andy1033
Here is an interesting question i think.

If gov and ptb where not running things, would humans be unable to live any sort of life worth living?
We saw in the past that only in last couple of centuries people started to read and that came from forced schooling.

So are the ptb right in that they assert that without them, we could not live a life, and would not be any better than animals.

Do you think if the ptb where not telling us how to live and what humans should be, would we still be like unable to read, and be virtually just animals not using our minds to create some sort of life for ourselves.

Are the ptb right?

edit on 12/1/2010 by andy1033 because: (no reason given)

That is a ridiculous postulation and is based on false information. The ability to read was not widespread for a number of reasons, none of which had to do with "forced" schooling. Let me point out just a few of the factors which had a much larger impact on the literacy rate than did "forced schooling".

1. Lack of books. Prior to the invention of the printing press, books had to be transcribed by hand, which made them both scarce and expensive. The average household did not have access to or financial means to own books.

2. Time. Prior to the industrial revolution, acquiring the basics essentials for survival (food, shelter, water, clothing) took a tremendous amount of manual labor and time. This left very little free time for education for all but the wealthy, who could afford to have others do all of the manual labor for them.

3. A divergence from the caste system. Until very recently in history (i.e. post American revolution), most people were not free to chose what they would do for a living except within very narrow confines.

As an extension of point (3), one could actually argue that, if anything, government has had the historical role of suppressing the ability of the general population from receiving an education.

As for your more general statement, no the government is not what makes life worth living or provides a more comfortable life. Again all we need to illustrate this is a look at history. Time and time again, the larger and more intrusive the system of government, the lower the quality of life of the general population. Why this is, is a topic in and of itself but the cliff-notes version is that the more power the government has, the greater the opputunity for abuse and corrupton and the greedy nature of those in power takes over.

By contrast, the greatest and most productive societies have been those which allowed the most freedom and in which the government was smaller and less intrusive. Mankind is at its best when allowed to strive to be greater of our own free will. Free agency is a powerful thing and the suppression of such has never, and will never lead to a greater society.

Very good question, i feel it would affect the whole race and system for a bit, but humans being such a versatile creature would adapt out of the box that they live in within several years. The question is would the ptb be able to survive with out its flock

I think we would be okay, I would love to have a world that isn't dictated by the Government, and church. I think it would get rid of money, power and wars. That to me sounds pretty good! Right now we strapped to the Government because of money, power, religion and what not all it boils down to is Greed, and greed is not very good, it's the Devil,so is Pride, Lust, Gluttony, Envy, Jealousy,and it our Egos. Get rid of the Devil or "ego" and we would have a perfect society. So no I don't need the Government to have a life, if you do, than I truly feel for you!