Civil unrest in the uk..

Insurance companies do not pay out during 'civil unrest', and what if someone got knifed? as for the Brit education system, the rich only want their children educated, so the best way is to make it too expensive for 'the lower classes' .
Those arrested were, perhaps, considered ring leaders and subversives, best put away for 're-education',
Ever since 'William the bastard' (1066) the Brits have been 'under the thumb' TPTB have had a long time to get it right in the UK, laws like " if you disturb a dear while it is feeding, you will killed" I bet it hasn't even been repealed yet.

reply to post by PurpleDog UK


Your certainly right that society needs to change and soon..

I wrote a while ago about the different stages a society goes through and how this version of society is in it's death throes.. I referred in my post to the changes that went on in the 1830s.. but really it started with the luddites (industrial Britain) then to Swing Riots (rural Britain) before the accepted tipping point of change came in the form of the Tolepuddle Martyrs, and the Great Reforms the elite used to try to maintain their hold.

I really do feel we are recreating that patten change, the same allegations are being thrown at the elite as they did during the Lolard phase, or Peasants revolt, or the English civil war, all have the same founding allegations against the rich..

What the course or outcome of the change will be I have no idea, but going by history the only way this elite could subvert the change is a major external war to refocus our attentions.

Originally posted by andy1033
Those students are very naive.

Police can make sure any protest is peaceful, and the other way round too.

Those students being violent is what they want, i mean police.

And the media... They want to show it all in a bad light.. That way people will frown upon the protesters, people will then forget the real issue here and the goverment will get of scot free... Again...

reply to post by Misterlondon


Yep it happens all the time, and protests in uk are the same. The police play on this naive nature you think they are some pure angels or something. Police are there to justify there existence, and why should they care about anyone period?

All i saw was very naive people, and i think most people here would accept that.

reply to post by thoughtsfull


Thoughtsfull

I tend to agree with your appreciation and historical summary......

My question though to all those protesting about the rich is this... What is Rich ???

I work for myself in the Medical field, I'm in sales and do OK. I have a nice car, I rent where I live after selling my house in 2007, I pay full tax and do not hide behind limited company status and lower taxation, i pay my own full and expenses, i give to charities and on occasion spend time helping with different activities, I provide medical equipment that provides terminally ill patients with a better quality of life in their last days and yet because I drive a 2 seat convertible ( I do alot of miles and want to drive something which makes me smile) I get called by protesters various names, I had things thrown at my car etc ..... The point i'm making is that there is a hatred out there towards symbols and images..... The fact that I play my part in society is irrelevant.......I hate the attitude of ' If i can't have that then why have they got it''...... I couldn't see many students and others spending the time to learn, educate themselves seriously, spend the time, money and perspiration to do what i do..... The world is full of people who want everything for little effort and it is starting to REALLY PISS ME OFF !!

Regards

PurpleDOG UK

'Anger can be power'.

Direct action can and does work.

Civil disobedience and confrontations are increasingly likely as long as the politicians and those they really represent continue to ignore the cares, concerns and interests of the British people,

reply to post by PurpleDog UK


"Firstly, regarding the Student protesting, it surprizes me that ''intelligent'' students are actually unable to understand the new fees proposition. In reality, if you read it and digest it, it is a fairer and more appropriate system. Why shouldn't those who benefit from education pay back into society when they are able to 'AT A LATER DATE'....."

I don't think anyone is opposed to borrowing for their education and then paying it back later, it is the amount they will have to pay back that puts people off. Many people don't want to have a £40,000 or more debt hanging around their necks at such a young age, It worries them as we live in times where many people are struggling to just pay rent and mortgages. Whatever you might say, it will be easier for the wealthy to be educated, this amount of debt is not an option for some poorer folk to take a chance on. So what amount is reasonable to charge students per year, £9000, £20,000... or even more? There's only so far you can push people.

Also despite what the politicians may say about how this will work and it will be fairer, why would we trust them? Even in the current system I know people who were denied Student loans and finance. In one case it was because the person didn't earn enough in their years previous to University which resulted in them not meeting certain illogical criteria set out by the student finance people, so no education for them!


Changing the subject slightly here....there were at least a hundred police out in Manchester last night well before the students gathered. More followed including mounted police. Someone somewhere is wanting to contain these protests as much as possible. Although higher up the chain I believe it was probably the plan all along to squeeze people dry, watch them riot, then use it as an excuse to bring in more control.

reply to post by Freeborn


But once it becomes violent they have won, and they have all the tools to make sure they can deal with that.

Yep being focused in things can be good, but those people have to protest in peace, or they have lost.

I have had 18 years of london police trying to get me to do something, and i have not done anything. I never let them ever be in the right, and they have never ever justified what they did to me ever.

Thats the attitude you protestors have to take, and you have to stop being naive about police and gov.

Originally posted by pikestaff
Insurance companies do not pay out during 'civil unrest', and what if someone got knifed? as for the Brit education system, the rich only want their children educated, so the best way is to make it too expensive for 'the lower classes' .
Those arrested were, perhaps, considered ring leaders and subversives, best put away for 're-education',
Ever since 'William the bastard' (1066) the Brits have been 'under the thumb' TPTB have had a long time to get it right in the UK, laws like " if you disturb a dear while it is feeding, you will killed" I bet it hasn't even been repealed yet.

But if we don't educate all the people, where does that leave Britain? Surely that will lead our society to go backwards..

reply to post by thoughtsfull
and what do i see on the bbc news this morning while im having my cup of tea and getting the kids ready for school, British Gas are putting up the price of gas by 9% because of that old chestnut ''the wholesale price of gas has gone up'' What an amazing coincidence that its come during a period of the worst weather weve had in a long time. We will of course take it lying down, we should take a leaf out of the students book.

reply to post by PurpleDog UK


In what way ??

reply to post by DrHammondStoat


Dr Stoat

You will be actually surprised by the fact that I AGREE with you..... It is not nice to start life with a debt around one's neck but the problem here is that our society has polarised the countries wealth so much that there is no choice. You mention the fact that people are paying high rents and mortgages etc ... Why is this ?? Because those who have benefitted from the House price rises (Artificially large) are the ones who DO NOT want to accept that the cost of their 'home' needs to come down in order for the cost of living to be a normal level....

I see the problem as being people's resistance to accept that they are not nearly as wealthy as they think they are !! This attitude will upset alot more people than the students but in my opinion HAS to happen..... We are told by politicans and economists that we must not go into deflation BUT i think from a simple checks and balances position that the 'costs' in living in the UK (primarilary Housing values) need to go through significant Deflation before we can even start to get back to a proper society with morals, ethics and values..

Regards

PurpleDOG UK

reply to post by Shminkee Pinkee


Re-read your post and then mine again....

Can you not see it ?

reply to post by PurpleDog UK


No because I'm a lower working class oik with poor education and cannot understand you, as I'm obviously too close minded to understand you point of view also, explain to me what you mean, instead of throwing out comments toward people you know nothing about

reply to post by PurpleDog UK


Still waiting for you to explain yourself.........

Still waiting for you to judge and patronise me some more.........

reply to post by Shminkee Pinkee


Your 'Chip' on your shoulder must be very heavy.....

At no stage have I suggested you are an 'oink' or of a different 'class' ?? Those are terms you have introduced and I therefore suspect that is how you see 'Yourself' in the eyes of others...

My initial reply to your initial post was because I was surprised by the Viscous nature of it.... I understand that in the 80's things happened / changed that people did not agree with...!! You spoke of your Grandfather which then leads me to believe that you were probably not even around or at least very young and so why do you focus on those bad times and not look forward for yourself ?

In life it is easy to complain but Very hard to find solutions.... if you applied the energy you have to complain on more industrious issues then maybe the world would be a different place.....

For the record I was born in the 60's in a working class area of Newcastle Upon Tyne.... I didn't have everything I wanted as a child and still today, I do NOT expect everything unlike the culture of today .... I do my bit and life is good......... I learn from history but I try not to cling to it as a simple justification for what I haven't achieved....

Regards

PurpleDOG UK

Originally posted by DrHammondStoat
reply to post by PurpleDog UK

 

"Firstly, regarding the Student protesting, it surprizes me that ''intelligent'' students are actually unable to understand the new fees proposition. In reality, if you read it and digest it, it is a fairer and more appropriate system. Why shouldn't those who benefit from education pay back into society when they are able to 'AT A LATER DATE'....."

I don't think anyone is opposed to borrowing for their education and then paying it back later, it is the amount they will have to pay back that puts people off. Many people don't want to have a £40,000 or more debt hanging around their necks at such a young age, It worries them as we live in times where many people are struggling to just pay rent and mortgages. Whatever you might say, it will be easier for the wealthy to be educated, this amount of debt is not an option for some poorer folk to take a chance on. So what amount is reasonable to charge students per year, £9000, £20,000... or even more? There's only so far you can push people.

Also despite what the politicians may say about how this will work and it will be fairer, why would we trust them? Even in the current system I know people who were denied Student loans and finance. In one case it was because the person didn't earn enough in their years previous to University which resulted in them not meeting certain illogical criteria set out by the student finance people, so no education for them!


Changing the subject slightly here....there were at least a hundred police out in Manchester last night well before the students gathered. More followed including mounted police. Someone somewhere is wanting to contain these protests as much as possible. Although higher up the chain I believe it was probably the plan all along to squeeze people dry, watch them riot, then use it as an excuse to bring in more control.

Your not taking into account, living expences that is the reason alot of students already borrow... They need somewhere to live and need to eat after 4 or 5 years of studying. Students already leave uni with huge debts hanging over them.. And also what if these students pay all that and for there education, then leave with a qualification with debts if anywhere between £20,000-£50,000 hanging over them. They will already be joining society with a serious disadvantage to the wealthy kids... Then what happens if they don't find a high paid job, because there are none and they end up in a minimum wage job, because they have this massive debt hanging over them, they then have to spend several years working like a dog to make end meet.. It's not fair on the working class..
That's what made Britain great a high standard of free education for everyone.. Once again Britain is going backwards..

reply to post by Misterlondon


MisterLondon

I go back to ask you...

What is a wealthy Kid ? What is a poor Kid ? What are the ratios, proportionality???

Your right in your post to highlight the housing costs etc etc..... I just think that the ''babyboomer'' generation and those who profitted from the housing boom have ''sucked'' up the money and left us with this younger generation trying to bridge the gap between generations..... It will never happen unless the older generations (poor, middle and rich families) share out the wealth tied up in property or Property goes through serious deflation..

Regards

PurpleDOG UK

Originally posted by thoughtsfull
reply to post by PurpleDog UK

 

Your certainly right that society needs to change and soon..

I wrote a while ago about the different stages a society goes through and how this version of society is in it's death throes.. I referred in my post to the changes that went on in the 1830s.. but really it started with the luddites (industrial Britain) then to Swing Riots (rural Britain) before the accepted tipping point of change came in the form of the Tolepuddle Martyrs, and the Great Reforms the elite used to try to maintain their hold.

I really do feel we are recreating that patten change, the same allegations are being thrown at the elite as they did during the Lolard phase, or Peasants revolt, or the English civil war, all have the same founding allegations against the rich..

What the course or outcome of the change will be I have no idea, but going by history the only way this elite could subvert the change is a major external war to refocus our attentions.

And they are trying hard to find a war ..... just not succeeding in managing to dupe the people enough at the moment.