Can China Invade Taiwan?

Originally posted by bodebliss
The brittish sent troops 3 times to our shores. We forgave and now have seemed to forgot.

What if, instead of Britain, it were China? What if China occupied the US and imposed unequal treaties and made the US a poor country? This is exactly what happened to China. Foreign powers occupied China and turned it into a chaotic, unstable, and poor country, it became a third world country for half a century, then the CCP came and said "@#% those foreigners, we're going to turn China into a rich country and then steal all their economies" and the people went "yaaay" so this is how it is. So far they have kept their word, the once third-world country is now a primarily developed country, with the major cities equalling in development to cities of developed nations, as long as they keep it up people don't complain about them.

I think the Chinese was behind economically, technologically and philosophically after the 1800s. Before it might be in the lead but it declines much continueously with corruptions etc. So before the foreigner starts setting up colonies in China it is already quite behind.

And before WW2, most territories are still in Chinese (Chin Dynasty and KMT) control, so you can't just blame on the other nations.

If Chinese people feel fine with CCP in control, then I guess that is fine, it is their choice. It doesn't really matter to the topic though. Whether the CCP is in control or not, Taiwan needs to be ready for possible military invasions from China. Because it seems to me that a lot of Chinese just can't let Taiwan go for some reason. Is it CCP propaganda? eductaion? or some sort of psychological thing? I don't know. But I think even if someone else come into power in China, he/she will still want to control Tibet, and will still want to invade Taiwan...etc, unless that person has different wisdoms.

"@#% those foreigners, we're going to turn China into a rich country and then steal all their economies"

That is a great propaganda. Create nationalism and hatred for foreigners, thus creating unity and supports for CCP.


[edit on 15-10-2005 by twchang]

Originally posted by Taishyou

...because it's a badass government, not like a bunch of lovey-dovey hippies. They do whatever it takes to get what they want for their country, they don't yield to other countries.

[edit on 15-10-2005 by Taishyou]

I agree on most part, CCP is like a punk or organized crime boss. Except they don't do it for their country, they do it for themselves. That is what badass mean I think.

Edit:
Oh, and I don't like hippies neither, hahaha...but I dislike organized crimes and punks even more.


[edit on 15-10-2005 by twchang]

www.taipeitimes.com...

This is very interesting. I think Fallon has some good points.

But I think Taiwan's navy should really get the submarines. The 4 subs Taiwan currently has are too old, and will endanger the sailers. Unless the Navy feels they don't need any subs...which is unlikely.

But Taiwan definitely needs to consider invest more in things Fallon talked about because they are relatively cheap but effective as well. And Taiwan already got the large hardwares like the 4 destroyers on the way, and possibly the subs later, so it is probably time to take care of the smaller pieces.

The most important aspects in Taiwan's defense is still air defense. It will have dominant effects.

[edit on 16-10-2005 by twchang]

[edit on 16-10-2005 by twchang]

Originally posted by twchang
I think the Chinese was behind economically, technologically and philosophically after the 1800s. Before it might be in the lead but it declines much continueously with corruptions etc. So before the foreigner starts setting up colonies in China it is already quite behind.

Actually chinas decline was caused by a large increase in population.

In the 18th century chinas population was 100million then in the mid 19th century it soared to 450million.

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Forigns imposed opium on the chinese people. they waged two wars so they could sell drugs to china.

SELL DRUGS. The made opium illegal in their own country while they shipped huge amounts into china.

And before WW2, most territories are still in Chinese (Chin Dynasty and KMT) control, so you can't just blame on the other nations.

Yes but large areas of china were under forigen control or influence.

That is a great propaganda. Create nationalism and hatred for foreigners, thus creating unity and supports for CCP.

Why do you refer to the CCP as the third person or outsider?

I think the best defense Taiwan could muster is thousands of smart mines that could be dropped to the sea floor now and activated to do hunter-killer scenarios autonamously in the event of amphibious attack.


This would leave only the skies open. Taiwan would then fill the skies with a million light small missles and wipe clean the threat there.

The CCP fails. The CCP is a laughing stock for China and the world. The CCP is overthrown.









[edit on 10/16/2005 by bodebliss]

Originally posted by chinawhite
Forigns imposed opium on the chinese people. they waged two wars so they could sell drugs to china.

SELL DRUGS. The made opium illegal in their own country while they shipped huge amounts into china.

Ok, here is the thing. You can't just "impose" drugs. If no one in China wants to smoke it how can they sell it. Selling drugs is wrong, but people who use it has to be responsible for using it.

Why do you refer to the CCP as the third person or outsider?

What do you mean? CCP is a political party in control of China. I am not CCP, and I am not talking to CCP, therefore I refer to it as 3rd person.

Originally posted by bodebliss
I think the best defense Taiwan could muster is thousands of smart mines that could be dropped to the sea floor now and activated to do hunter-killer scenarios autonamously in the event of amphibious attack.

This would leave only the skies open. Taiwan would then fill the skies with a million light small missles and wipe clean the threat there.

[edit on 10/16/2005 by bodebliss]

Yea, if the mine is smart enough it will be a great defense. This kind of automatic defense system would probably be great for Taiwan.

Although you usually can't trust auto system completely and need monitoring and fail safe, and contigency plans in the event of failures, or if PLA finds a very imaginative way to disable them...

[edit on 16-10-2005 by twchang]

You might need back ups now , but in a little while they may be so smart you won't need backups anymore. Just drop and forget. War comes and they sink everything in sight.

Originally posted by twchang
Ok, here is the thing. You can't just "impose" drugs. If no one in China wants to smoke it how can they sell it. Selling drugs is wrong, but people who use it has to be responsible for using it.

We destroyed their drug stores and they attacked us.

It was illegal to have drugs in china and destroyed it.

Your stance is completely wrong. Drugs are addictive you cant let them go

What do you mean? CCP is a political party in control of China. I am not CCP, and I am not talking to CCP, therefore I refer to it as 3rd person.

Like a outsider force in china.

Originally posted by chinawhite

We destroyed their drug stores and they attacked us.

It was illegal to have drugs in china and destroyed it.

Your stance is completely wrong. Drugs are addictive you cant let them go

But why do they use it in the first place? Of course the English were wrong to sell opium, and starts a war when their shipments are burned. The Chin government are on the right side in this one. Every government should prevent sells and shipments of illegal drugs. But what I am saying is, the people that use opium have to take some responsibility as well. Because they choose to use it. And I think you can quit drugs, it is just very very painful.

Like a outsider force in china.

What gave you that impression? I am refering CCP as Chinese Communist Party, a political party in China. Just like if I talk about Democrats and Republicans in the US, or DPP, KMT, TSU and PFP in Taiwan, I will refer to them as 3rd person.


[edit on 16-10-2005 by twchang]

[edit on 16-10-2005 by twchang]

Bodebliss your recent statements is border edge insanity, do you realize just how many meglomaniac cartoon villains are depicted with the same ridiculas one liners you speak of?

A recent article of Defense sec. Rumsfeld's comments suggested no less.

Another article suggested Taiwan should invest in defensive weapons.

I back my comments w/ links and quotes so i'm not so crazy.

Originally posted by twchang

Originally posted by Taishyou
...because it's a badass government, not like a bunch of lovey-dovey hippies. They do whatever it takes to get what they want for their country, they don't yield to other countries.

Except they don't do it for their country, they do it for themselves.

No, not really. I'm not saying they don't do anything for themselves either. However, if everything they do is for themselves, then China would be much more like North Korea or Saddam Hussein's Iraq. The whole country would be poor except for the dictator, his family, and his henchmen. And besides his palace or office or whatever he lives in, the whole country would be a wasteland.

This is not the case in China. High development rate can be seen all over the country, especially in major cities. There are also major projects such as the Three Gorges Dam or Shanghai's Maglev train. Nothing like these would exist if the CCP totally didn't care about the country.

A thing to remember is that the CCP is a huge party of 63 million people, out of all these people there has to be SOME good people. I don't know the porportion of these people compared to the idiots that don't even deserve to be on the CCP, but at least because of these people the CCP isn't ALL bad.

Originally posted by bodebliss
The brittish sent troops 3 times to our shores. We forgave and now have seemed to forgot.

China must grow spiritually as well. Democracy might help.

According to historical social science study by senior Chinese researchers, Democracy might by one of the main reasons for the fall of the US.

Democracy played a big role in the advancement of modern civilization, and is where the development, creativity, flurishment of modern culture, technology and so on. But it's also becoming increasingly clear that in the US, democracy is making everything more expensive, every national concensus hard to achieve. The US legal system is also consuming a large amount of resources - it tries to cover every aspect of everyone's individual interests, the processes becoming slow and inefficient, resulting in everyone's interests couldn't be taken care of very well. The country could end up with many exellent politicians and lawyers, and a dwindling base of production and technology power (weapon industry an exception), and an highly vulnerable yet booming virtual economy. On too many cases, American men and women have too much of their time, energy and money wasted in civil and legal bickerings.

The Romans had set an precedant - Roman Republic had been one of the most democratic societies in history (I think it is better than some of the modern countried in terms of degrees of democracy enjoyed among the citizens), yet democracy and a superior military technology didn't save the Republic from falling apart and being substituted by an empire and eventually befalled.

George Bush might agree with this view deep in his mind. He is probably conscious about the high prices to maintain the democracy. Also people's mind will gradually turn to right (more conservative and hardline). Unilateralism - the harbinger of an empire age is the mainstream thinking. People begin to believe that the glories and securities were achieved by the use of force, and the past setbacks and failures were blamed on lack or insufficient use of force. Bush won't be able to accomplish the goal of making an empire, nor will his immediate successors, but I belive it's cominging about fifty year.

Now this thread turns into Dictatorship VS Democracy? Hahaha.

Personally I don't care what Chinese people want. But I like democracy.

Sure, democracy is not problem free and who knows, it might fall in the future although it seems to work fine now.

But dictatorship will fall as well. Thousands of years of history on fall of dictatorships.

But in any case, I feel better in democratic society, and I intend to enjoy and protect it while it is there.

I know why.

Taiwan people are smart people. They don not always think the way the American think.

The Americans tell them that the arms were needed to protect the freedom and democracy of Taiwan. Great reasons, lofty course!

Yet the mayjority of paiwan people don't understand why American can't just give them the weapon for free, like the US have been doing all the time to the freedom fighters around the world all the time.

Sure they also understand that the US has some money to make in the sale, but they don't understand why the US sell them at a price more than twice as high as market price - this price is better for F-22 or similar class. Why the US don't sell Ohio Class submarines at such a price?

They just don't get it. So the parliament veto it 32 times consecutively.

Originally posted by Taishyou
A thing to remember is that the CCP is a huge party of 63 million people, out of all these people there has to be SOME good people. I don't know the porportion of these people compared to the idiots that don't even deserve to be on the CCP, but at least because of these people the CCP isn't ALL bad.

I am sure every place has some good people, but bad people as well. From my information, I know CCP has done a lot of things for its own gain and continueous existence. But yea, it doesn't really matter what I think. The Chinese people can be the judge of that.

Again I don't really care if CCP is good or bad. It threatens to use force on Taiwan because it wants Taiwan to be part of China, and pressure Taiwan to give up in anyway possible. That alone makes CCP a hostile oppenent of Taiwan. And therefore I view CCP more as an enemy.

Originally posted by puri
I know why.

Taiwan people are smart people. They don not always think the way the American think.

The Americans tell them that the arms were needed to protect the freedom and democracy of Taiwan. Great reasons, lofty course!

Yet the mayjority of paiwan people don't understand why American can't just give them the weapon for free, like the US have been doing all the time to the freedom fighters around the world all the time.

Sure they also understand that the US has some money to make in the sale, but they don't understand why the US sell them at a price more than twice as high as market price - this price is better for F-22 or similar class. Why the US don't sell Ohio Class submarines at such a price?

They just don't get it. So the parliament veto it 32 times consecutively.

Right, I think that is completely nonsense.

The only reason it is blocked 32 times is because the pan blue camp who has turn their loyalties to China.

Yes, Taiwan needs arms to protect itself. It is not great and lofty reason, it is a practical reason.

The US has helped Taiwan in many ways when Taiwan was still poor. The 7th fleet once patrol the strait of Taiwan. The US setups clinics and give medicine supplies. They also pressure the Chiang to give more freedom to Taiwanese people.

Now Taiwan's economy can supports arm purchases, it should shoulder some of the burden. That is one of the burden of indepedence.

The US did not inflated the price. At least not in my memories.

But sure, the US should sell Taiwan F-22 and Virginia class sub, see what the pan blue says about that. hahaha.

I seriously don't believe that the pan blue party sold its loyatly to us in the way you think of it, I think they simply long for unification with they're brothers. And once the economy and political situation reaches a point that its compatible with the Chinese living in Taiwan then there will be peaceful unification.

As for the 7th fleet, America had no right to interfear with China's internal affairs, it was a civil war then and technically its still a civil war now, we're just in a cease fire negotiating the terms.

"The CCP fails. The CCP is a laughing stock for China and the world. The CCP is overthrown."

And the fact that you added 3 laughing smilys all points towards meglomania, c'mon it is obvious that you need reeducation. Each one of your points I can argue with, each one of your points is wrong, its not even worth the right of being an opinion! Its demogagery and rable rousing.

Also your speaking in the present tense, last time I check the CCP enjoyed a large majority in the National People's Congress, and I see China is being an economic giant and any nation can attest to that, and quite frankly because of the point I just said and can be proven in both wikipedia, people's daily and in your own cia world factbook that the CCP is doing at he very least an ok job overal in running the country so stop bitching about China and how evil it is.

Set your own house in order before you start complaining about your neighbours house.

[edit on 16-10-2005 by The Middle Kingdom]