U.S.A. can't possibly want a war with China, can they.

With growing tensions between North and South Korea, what the heck would the US do if it excalated into a full blown war.

I personally don't think the US can win a war with China with smart bombs. I think it could be a full blown war
with huge losses on both sides.
I don't want another Korean War. If North Korea keeps this up only bad things can happen.

I know in the past the 6 superpowers get together at the U.N. and apppease N. Korea. But bombing can only be construed to be an act of war.

This is a turn of events that I am monitoring

with much disgust and apprehension.

Perhaps it's time for Korea to step up to the plate and retaliate in a forcefull manner.

I would just hate to see the US and China engaging each other.

I have a relative who flies F-16s and was recently stationed in South Korea (now stateside)....and I spoke with him over the holiday and he is of the opinion (read brainwashed) that the US would defeat China (not just NK) "handily."
I guess they only taught those guys dogfights and didnt cover aspects of a nuclear war with them...let alone a conventional war against millions of soldiers.

Didn't the U.S. sign a treaty,or armistice the first time around with NK / China /Soviet Union?.

Would that not be an agreement to stop an unwinnable conflict?.

What the heck would the U.S. wanna re-open that can of worms for?.

Oh yeah,Russia and China just dumped the U.S.dollar.

Uh oh.

China and the United States will not at all come to blows over North Korea. China has already admitted that they are quite sick of NK's antics and would rather just have a unified Korea that is sane next door.

There is also no desire for a war between the two Koreas, and they would rather the North just roll over and expire like a good failed dictatorship should. A war would result in a refugee headache for China and the chance that when Kim (whichever one is really in charge) realizes that big-brother China isn't coming to help he'll lob a few missiles at Beijing too.

So no, if North and South Korea go to war, and the United States gets dragged into it, this will not be like last time. China will not fight the US.

reply to post by copper5661


i don't think North Korea can fight a war today... not with the South, certainly not with the U.S.

the nation is starving... it takes twice as much materiel (including food/water) to sustain an army in wartime versus peace - North Korea's economy simply cannot support a major action

China would have to back them

however... i'm am unconvinced that China would back North Korea if they went to war - China is winning the economic war with the west... why queer the deal with a shooting war?

even if China thinks they can "win" a war with the U.S./NATO Allies - at the end of the day, they can only destroy their best customer...

a defeated U.S. would no longer be in position to keep funding their economic rise

leave alone the war deaths and destruction China would suffer at the hands of the U.S. Military, even in a "victory"

and, of course, China just might get it's a&& handed to it in a high hat - not worth the risk.



i think this is all Kim Jong Un's coming out party

Originally posted by chiponbothshoulders
Didn't the U.S. sign a treaty,or armistice the first time around with NK / China /Soviet Union?.

Would that not be an agreement to stop an unwinnable conflict?.

What the heck would the U.S. wanna re-open that can of worms for?.

Oh yeah,Russia and China just dumped the U.S.dollar.

Uh oh.

What on earth are you talking about? The U.S. Dollar is rising as a reserve currency because of instability in the Euro. The Dollar is seen as the safest bet out there right now by other nations.

The armistice at the end of the Korean War was between the United Nations and North Korea with the US and China acting as accessory forces to the peace which was brokered by India. The US was never officially at war and neither was China or the Soviet Union.

The Korean War ended uti possidetis, and a strategic stalemate, it was by no means "unwinnable" by either side it is simply that neither was willing to commit the forces needed to win.

Where are you getting this information?

Had we wiped them off the map back in the 50's like General MacArthur wanted to, we wouldn't be having this problem right now..

Things are realy heating up bigtime. In my opinion a war between the two these days would be fought until one side is resource bare.

Originally posted by Darkrunner
Had we wiped them off the map back in the 50's like General MacArthur wanted to, we wouldn't be having this problem right now..

An unfinished war is an endless war. Just what the Planetary Overlords want.

The only way to win is to not play the game.

Thank you Joshua

reply to post by CosmicCitizen

I have a relative who flies F-16s and was recently stationed in South Korea (now stateside)....and I spoke with him over the holiday and he is of the opinion (read brainwashed) that the US would defeat China (not just NK) "handily."

This is mostly circumstantial. Ultimately - yes, the U.S. would trash China in a military conflict, and many of them are well aware of this little factoid. They are also not sitting nearly as pretty as they would like to bash our economic state. Contrary to popular opinion - we are not indebted to China. Recent inflation of the dollar and massive red-line spending from Congress have demonstrated that, even if China wanted to, they couldn't flood the market with dollars and cripple our economy (which is about the only economic 'gun' to our head). As far as industry is concerned - yes, they make a lot of stuff - but nothing we couldn't get from any other country on the planet with minimal subsidiary efforts of our own.

The most difficult industry to pick up slack with would be the textile industry - very high demand and Americans are not too keen on buying used clothing, for the most part. Shoes would also be included in this. Domestic suppliers could not meet demand (even if people could afford to pay for domestically produced textiles on the average), and foreign suppliers would find it hard to ramp up to meet demand (and not just American demand - a lot of other countries get goods from China, too - and a war between America and China would pretty much shut down almost all exports from China).

I'm not saying we wouldn't bat an eye - but it is not beyond the scope of our military capability. The carrier battle group already there would be more than enough to disable most of China's critical strategic assets. It would likely be lost to attrition - but even a preemptive strike would do little to change the outcome to favor China. The current battle group in the Asian Pacific would decimate China's ability to project its military and the rest of the Navy would form a "F*%^ China" party and try not to be shown up by the Indians (who would have already started a ground and Naval war with China the moment it was clear they were unable to project). Russia would also likely take the opportunity to what it feels are its borders very clear to China, where there has been mounting tension along the border with Siberia and concern over China's growing need for resources beyond what other countries are capable/willing to supply them.

So, the U.S. loses a carrier battle group - China gets gang-banged and loses all of its industrial and economic standing as countries find alternative suppliers.

I guess they only taught those guys dogfights and didnt cover aspects of a nuclear war with them...let alone a conventional war against millions of soldiers.

China doesn't have the nuclear arsenal to be a threat.

www.fas.org...

Only about 20 missiles they have in their arsenal have the range to strike the U.S. mainland. Those are roughly a 4.5 megaton warhead (+/- 500 kiloton).

Even if they could miraculously manage to deploy their entire nuclear arsenal both tactical and strategic yields (and somehow launch their IRBMs that would otherwise fall harmlessly to the sea) - the U.S. could easily survive the attrition. There would be no need to retaliate with a nuclear arsenal - their existing arsenal with an effective range to be considered a threat is easily engaged and defeated by our anti-ballistic missile shield in service through the Navy and various locations around the continental U.S. It's by no means complete, yet - but more than capable of dealing with the threat posed by China.

They could, however, wipe out Korea.

Their main purpose with the nuclear arsenal is to deter attack from India and, to a lesser extent Russia and European powers.

As for their soldiers.... what are they going to do? Swim over here?

Sure - they are a concern when it comes to Korea (China likes to cosplay as Korean and Vietnamese soldiers on the battlefield), but there's buku landmines all over the DMZ with the ROK/USFK capable of deploying more fields with missiles when and where required. That makes an offensive infantry war hard to realize. Tunnels are a good work-around, but they are also choke-points that make the "human wave" tactic more like a "human-clogged drain."

The weapons in use today are quite a bit different than they were 50 years ago. We have cluster munitions that can place the equivalent of a hand-grenade in every square yard within a hundred yard radius and deliver that from over 90 nautical miles away.

The infantry would be more annoying than effective without air superiority - which neither North Korea or China could establish over the ROK's Air Force - not to mention the U.S. and Japan flying shotgun.

The biggest problem with this war is just how small of an area we are dealing with and how many people are there. A huge portion of South Korea's population is within range of North Korea's artillery - and any additional fighting is going to be done pretty much on top of someone's farm or in someone's store/apartment. About the only way you won't be doing that is if you climb up a damned near vertical mountain slope and fight there (and then you'll be fighting in a Buddhist temple).

well at this point in time a full blow war between two super powers would result in significant loss on both sides. and probably economic meltdown. there is no win in that kind of war.

as far as nuclear war goes, well might as well consider your ass goodbye. but as far as nuclear arsenal goes, the us will put out a lot more then it will take.