N.Korea warns of new attacks, S.Korea to boost rules of engagement

Originally posted by SpaceJ
If we do the drills anywhere near the general area that they said not to, it seems to me like we are wanting to provoke this. The fact that SK even was practicing near that line seems reckless. Is there something I'm missing here? Are there like limited options as to where to hold these drills?

Way to be misinformed. The U.S. has been conducting annual exercises in this area with South K. for as long as I have been alive and longer which is 42 years. We are not going to let some 2 bit dictator that starves his people dictate what international or sovereign allied territories we conduct our military exercises in.

Obama has nailed the last nail in his reelection coffin by not responding approriately. At the very least he should have called a special congressional meeting to discuss war with North Korea to at the very least send a HUGE signal to NK that these actions will not be tolerated.

If it were up to me every NK military asset would now be a burning cinder.

Obama is a coward.

Originally posted by SpaceJ
reply to post by deltaboy

 

I'm not saying we or SK don't have the right to be there. I'm saying that if we want to avoid this escalating, we might want to reconsider moving some ways away, no?

And risk looking weak in the eyes of China, Russia, NK...

The fact is that NK left the table, repeatedly. They have no right to be dictating what ships are in international waters, or what they do there.

To suddenly say "oh, we'll go somewhere else because you DEMAND it" would be completely inappropriate and would send the wrong message to allies and potential enemies alike.

SK is an ally of the US, and SK has a damn right to have military drills. Screw NK. They don't own the oceans and they certainly don't get to dictate what SK and the US does.
No other government will accept that this is provocation. And if NK attacks again because of it, it will be widely know that they used whatever they could as an excuse to do it.

Originally posted by Aslpride
You know how much worries that people have regarding to NK, but here's picture of Asia in night.

What are we worrying about? NK is still a stone age civilization. Ah, the America's mastermind planning behind of NK/SK skirmish is targeting or provocation China?

It's interesting that China's general has threat America for enter Yellow Sea in June 7, 2010. Now, we know USS G.W. aircraft carrier is coming or arrived at Korea peninsula, but where will they park and exercise their military training with SK?

Nice picture that probably all of us know. Notice there are other dark areas - as the inland Chinese low populated areas. We know about Kim's regime and the electricity rationing. This is not a sign of a stone age, this is to put all efforts in the military. Like it or not, they have a rocket that at least reached space on a partial orbit if not a full orbit (as the first American rockets did), and a nuclear program at a higher stage than the American one at the time of Hiroshima bombing. Reportedly, North Korea tested not a real warhead but the ignition uranium mechanism for a much bigger hydrogen thermonuclear warhead. Of course, such "leaked" info cannot be proved.

The North Korean regime should not be a problem if they were not posed to attack. As it is not a problem for USA some regimes like the Saudi and many African dictatorships. The problem is the North Korean is ready to attack under some circumstances, so the Iraq solution doesn't work here.

One may like to see all seas free for American carriers, and China and Russia welcoming them with flowers. But let turn the coin - will the Americans be very happy if a Chinese submarine is seen near Manhattan on Thanksgiving, Christmas or any other day? A Russian sub was seen last year near the US East coast, and the American media got hysteric about that. People started "seeing submarines" in everything that floats near the shores. Not the US Navy that couldn't say where the sub gonext, may be it was Cuba? Russian planes stopped in Venezuela, and Condy Rice asked questions how long would they stay. Is Venezuela - American province? Russian planes flew around Japan and between Japan and Korea last time. In case of a real world war, the preemption strike is vital. Does anyone expect Russia and China to wait until the US B-2 come close enough? Especially with their reported alien capabilities? Those two giants will strike first with their hi-tech, as demonstrated in Norway and China spirals, and with everything necessary to neutralize America in minutes. Most probably with EMP first. There are enough online materials how a real nuclear first strike will look like and why the American ICBM won't be very effective afterward and America would rather surrender instead of waiting the next wave ICBM towards the cities. This is about a real case WW3, if the things are heading in that direction.

As far as secretary Kim is concerned, we should not take any risks with him and his nukes. Exactly because of the fact that no one with a sane reason wants to see WW3 out of stupidity. The US carriers have a better placement elsewhere than under the nose of China. And the South Korean army has more important duties than to fire in a disputed island. Hope someone has learned the lessons.

Obama couldn't agree on Free Trade with the South. Is it because he somehow knows of the inevitable crisis? Isn't South Korea a valuable ally that needs to be rewarded with a free trade agreement? Or it will play the role of Castro's Cuba for USSR missiles during the Cold War, this time may be hotter? One good thing, the South defense minister resigned!

reply to post by detachedindividual


So it's just a power game? We should risk starting a potential world war over some power games? How does that sound sane and rational? It sounds like some ridiculous argument, like I jumped off the bridge because everyone else did. Having greater military power and a feeling of more authority over everyone else in the world is akin to being strong, is what you are saying. We're weak if we don't start a war. Personally I think a stronger country could have found a way around having a war in Iraq, and I think we should find a way to avoid this so as to not make the same mistake we made there. That seems like it's exactly what NK wants, someone to play their games.

Why not move the drills and see what happens at least, rather then just rolling on in there like nothing is going to happen. Maybe nothing will happen, but it's peoples lives we're talking about. It's not as simple as you guys are all stating it to be, in my opinion. Really? Let's just blow them off the planet? Because that's a better solution than attempting to at least appear slightly diplomatic in moving said drills away from the immediate area, while still holding the drills to at least make their point that they are ready and waiting if needed. I'm not saying we shouldn't be there, all I am saying is there has to be a better way than doing these things so close to a line where NK is obviously anxiously waiting for their next excuse to strike something or someone.

reply to post by Xeven


I never claimed to be informed on any of this. I was just asking about why they choose to hold the drills where they do, just curious as the what the reasoning is. I genuinely would like to know just why they choose certain locations over others, what area in total is considered dangerous, is simply being in the Yellow Sea in general making us a target even if not near the DMZ? I was asking for information.

I'm just going by logic here in the hopes for avoiding unnecessary loss of life over another misguided war. Again, I think that's way too simple of a solution. There is always a better way than turning everything to cinder. Blaming Obama solely is ridiculous and naive, he is just a puppet. The reasons behind whatever the US decides to do in the coming days goes far deeper than Obama.

You should all read this. Even the sinking of the SK warship by NK was made up!

www.pacificfreepress.com...

An extract:

"In April, the director of South Korea’s national intelligence, Won See-hoon, told a parliamentary committee that there was no evidence linking the sinking of the Cheonan to North Korea. The defence minister agreed. The head of South Korea’s military marine operations said, “No North Korean warships have been detected [in] the waters where the accident took place.” The reference to “accident” suggests the warship struck a reef and broke in two."

Originally posted by Xeven

Originally posted by SpaceJ
If we do the drills anywhere near the general area that they said not to, it seems to me like we are wanting to provoke this. The fact that SK even was practicing near that line seems reckless. Is there something I'm missing here? Are there like limited options as to where to hold these drills?

Way to be misinformed. The U.S. has been conducting annual exercises in this area with South K. for as long as I have been alive and longer which is 42 years. We are not going to let some 2 bit dictator that starves his people dictate what international or sovereign allied territories we conduct our military exercises in.

Obama has nailed the last nail in his reelection coffin by not responding approriately. At the very least he should have called a special congressional meeting to discuss war with North Korea to at the very least send a HUGE signal to NK that these actions will not be tolerated.

If it were up to me every NK military asset would now be a burning cinder.

Obama is a coward.

North Korea haven't attacked anyone for anything for years - if ever. Stop listening to FAUX NEWS! Don't believe the hype!

reply to post by TheOneElectric


Ofcourse it will cool off this is China we're talking about they wouldnt fire on a US target. They need that 6 billion or so dollars back. Not to mention as sad as it would be the Chinese being packed like sardines would suffer the heaviest losses

I hear the NK can't win an actual toe-to-toe war with the South, and the main concern is the inevitable flattening of Seol at the beginning of operations. I do worry about our carrier, but I'm betting at least some ships in that strike group are outfitted with the new Rail Guns and Anti-anything-on-or-above-the-horizon Lasers. I'd say we need to bring those mountains down around them with Kinetic Strikes and let the SK take over after that. Also, wouldn't it be nice if there was some kind of machine we could park above NK to shoot down any short or long range missles they shoot into the sky? Interesting events, not that far away from me, actually...

reply to post by Aim64C

North Korea is likely doing much of this in an attempt to solidify the status of their changing leadership and settle public uncertainty. However, it is possible they will push too far, and South Korea will 'simply' kick their ass to be done with it.

Of course it is not possible that South Korea could be in the wrong, or that the 'war games' being played right on the edge of disputed could be viewed as a provocation, is it?

No, could not possible be that.

Originally posted by AK49er
I hear the NK can't win an actual toe-to-toe war with the South, and the main concern is the inevitable flattening of Seol at the beginning of operations. I do worry about our carrier, but I'm betting at least some ships in that strike group are outfitted with the new Rail Guns and Anti-anything-on-or-above-the-horizon Lasers. I'd say we need to bring those mountains down around them with Kinetic Strikes and let the SK take over after that. Also, wouldn't it be nice if there was some kind of machine we could park above NK to shoot down any short or long range missles they shoot into the sky? Interesting events, not that far away from me, actually...

Excuse me? This is people we are talking about.

This is not some sort of video game.

Now the situation is really complicated ,Obama should not make it worse by drive the aircraft carrier there, which will be in a mess totally .

Ummm there is no situation!! Its OVER. NK does what they always do...they start something up then back off immediately.

These war games are done ALL the tgime by both NK and SK right off each other's coasts. This is nothing new.

Ok kids, go look at some history books okay?

reply to post by PuterMan

Of course it is not possible that South Korea could be in the wrong, or that the 'war games' being played right on the edge of disputed could be viewed as a provocation, is it?

If you're going to bring right or wrong into this - South Korea is a functional social and economic power. With a land-mass the size of Indiana, they are one of the world's ten largest economies and an essential component in the ship-building industry across the world. You likely have a phone made in Korea (or are you daft enough to think Samsung and LG were from Japan?) - the gas you put in your car was likely transported as crude aboard a tanker built in Korea (and the only place in the world that builds the triple-hulled tanker designs).

South Korea could down-right invade North Korea for no reason other than they felt like it, and not be nearly as wrong as North Korea.

However, in this case - the drills are annual drills - held every year. They have been held every year for the past 60 years. North Korea refuses to officially end the war - although it has been offered numerous times. North Korea generally refuses to talk to the rest of the world, spare to throw threats at them and promises of turning them into lakes of fire.

They are a petulant little child of a practically third-world nation. South Korea has -never- provoked a response from North Korea. Nor has the U.S. The South has only been interested in re-uniting their family and making open border agreements. North Korea has only used South Korea as a sort of hostage to garner resources from various world powers.

No, could not possible be that.

It really couldn't. You've really no idea until you've been to that country.

reply to post by PuterMan


Obviously this is real life, but as long time allies under our protection, I am a lot more concerned about the democratic, capitalist South Koreans than the Commies' in the North, for all the obvious reasons. It's going to happen one way or another, and we're gong to overwhelm them with strikes, one way or another. So make it quick and moderately painless. I'm not cold enough to call for a kinetic strike on civilians I'm just saying, I think if they work in the way they've been described, maybe they can neutralize a portion of those protected artillery guns looming over Seol. Bring the mountain down on them, so to speak.

I think as a strategist, you can handle the humanitarian issues.

reply to post by Xeven


"We are not going to let some 2 bit dictator that starves his people dictate what international or sovereign allied territories we conduct our military exercises in. "

Uh, "we" who man? If another nation adamantly doesn't want "hostile" forces playing war in their safety zone.. sounds reasonable, eh?.. I'm cool with that.. my day will stay the same and my manhood isn't threatened in the least.. N Korea hasn't done anything to me and I'd happily be friends with anyone from N Korea I met.. hung out with and deemed cool.

Why should N Korea be told what to accept by two, 2 bit political partys?.. the GOP and DNC have a legacy of party leader LIARS, Fed Reserve clowns / PTB useful idiots who engineered millions dead in a bogus Vietnam war... THEN lied the Iraq and Afghanistan occupations into being.. justified in part because a politician tortured innocent people.

Who has launched more aggressive wars?.. N Korea or the USA?.. oh wait, in N Korea allegedly starves people, that's bad and "crazy".. but the US/NATO can bomb/occupation slaughter and DU poison sovereign nations based on low budget "WMD" fiction.. and no outrage required.. lol

All this "we" nationalism machismo is lame as crap, even lamer is the idea "we" includes the military industrial complex/ DC war profiteer scumbags AND "us"...