N. Korea Crisis - Updated as News come to hand

This reeks of a major "inciting incident" to me for several reasons, and most of them have nothing to do with Korea at all. Here is my list:

1) The bombing made it's way to the MSM quickly. If this happens all the time, this is the first time that it has been shoved under our noses.
2) 200 shells, and unconfirmed reports of missles...which is unlike the skirmish at the NZ a few months back, where shots were traded but noone was hurt. This was an organized, concise military strike and nothing less.
3) I think N.Korea knows that they would be boned without China...which makes me think that they would never have executed this attack without consenting the Chinese first.
4) The US is heading back into a state of recession.
5) The US Government is seriously lacking in terms of public support
6) The US Government has wasted tens of thousands of troops in the middle east in a fruitless and pointless war, and continue to leave tens of thousands of more in harms way.
7) In order to be "top dawg", China needs to cripple the USA.

In my opinion, from China's perspective the States are ripe for the crippling. Economically, they are in serious jeopardy of falling back into a recession (or even a depression), their military forces have been weakened by the war in the Middle East, their own populace believes the Government to be responsible for many of the current issues of today (such as 9/11)...and China holds a MAJOR ace in the hole, which is the second largest ammount of US public debt. All they would need to do is call it in, and the States would be economically devestated. So why haven't they, you ask?

They need to paint the States as an aggressor. If they called in the debt, and the States went to war, they would find America once again united as a nation. This is a game of chess...China needs the States to attack North Korea, so it appears as though China is simply coming to the aide of an ally. People in the US would then be more ready to blame their Government (once again) for getting involved in the business of some Island in the Pacific with no real value to US interests.

Right now, China needs only to pull the trigger and the States would be in for a reall sh!t kicking...this is an act of war, make no mistake. And if the chips fall right, this is an act of war that is going to pull the entire world in. Don't think "nuclear devestation" right off the bat...we could still have a war with limited (or no) Nuclear action. That would only come at the end, when one side has gone the way of Hitler, and has their back up against the wall. And believe me...if Hitler had the capability to take us all with him at the end, he would have....that's what scares me.


GtkP

Originally posted by SLAYER69
They have threatened war every fifteen minutes for the past 50 years AND they already have nukes.

Everyones blows wind, does not mean they spend all day doing no 2 on the toilet.

Look how many times iran and israel have talked about taking each other out, or india and pakistan.

reply to post by HattoriHanzou


Ultra useful post, all of the sources listed are so impeccable that even the hawkiest of hawks couldn't object and should be glad of the opportunity to learn.

reply to post by 1FutureMarine1



North Korea is claiming that the South fired first.

Originally posted by HattoriHanzou
reply to post by 1FutureMarine1

 

North Korea is claiming that the South fired first.

Really?

Originally posted by HattoriHanzou
reply to post by 1FutureMarine1

 

North Korea is claiming that the South fired first.

Isn't that what any naughty child would do.. point fingers

Originally posted by Secularist
If the Chinese dont deal with this nobody else will, not even America. China protects NK and supports them, so hopefully they do the right thing and tell Kim to stfu.

Chances are China does not desire the conflict to escalate. However, they might indeed be using North Korea to put pressure on us after the huge snubbing we gave China at the G20 just a little while back.

There is simply no way to tell at this time.

reply to post by Guido the Killer Pimp


I think it's the other way around. The USA economy needs another war to pull itself out of recession - war is the biggest business there is in the USA! Hell, the money doesn't disappear down a black hole you know! It gopes from the US taxpayer into the pockets of military suppliers - weapons, vehicles, boots and all. Very rich people, very close to the president (some of them in Government) make massive amounts of money out of war. They WANT war! While it might cripple the average US taxpayer (God love 'em) it makes the rulers of the USA even more stinking rich than they already are! And get this - the US Public would back 'em all the way.

China on the other hand don't want to cripple the US as a buyer of Chinese goods. They might well want to dominate the world, but they want to take as many US dollars as they can before then. Getting the US to wast money on war is not good for the Chinese economy!

reply to post by DaskeenAzul



The way NK react and think it will probably be regarded as a govt sanctioned cyber attack a prelude to a military attack.

reply to post by SLAYER69


Yes really - NK have said that SK attacked first - at least most media outlets in the UK and rest of the world are reporting that. Bet FOX (FAUX) NEWS aint though! Lol

Originally posted by Adramalech
reply to post by SLAYER69

 

Yes really - NK have said that SK attacked first - at least most media outlets in the UK and rest of the world are reporting that. Bet FOX (FAUX) NEWS aint though! Lol

Wouldn't know whats on FOX....

You're my source.

Originally posted by Justaposter

Originally posted by HattoriHanzou
reply to post by 1FutureMarine1

 

North Korea is claiming that the South fired first.

Isn't that what any naughty child would do.. point fingers

Yes. They'd also do it if it were true. But all those NKs are liars aren't they, so no need to even doubt that they are lying! LOL

Originally posted by Guido the Killer Pimp
This reeks of a major "inciting incident" to me for several reasons, and most of them have nothing to do with Korea at all. Here is my list:

1) The bombing made it's way to the MSM quickly. If this happens all the time, this is the first time that it has been shoved under our noses.
2) 200 shells, and unconfirmed reports of missles...which is unlike the skirmish at the NZ a few months back, where shots were traded but noone was hurt. This was an organized, concise military strike and nothing less.
3) I think N.Korea knows that they would be boned without China...which makes me think that they would never have executed this attack without consenting the Chinese first.
4) The US is heading back into a state of recession.
5) The US Government is seriously lacking in terms of public support
6) The US Government has wasted tens of thousands of troops in the middle east in a fruitless and pointless war, and continue to leave tens of thousands of more in harms way.
7) In order to be "top dawg", China needs to cripple the USA.

In my opinion, from China's perspective the States are ripe for the crippling. Economically, they are in serious jeopardy of falling back into a recession (or even a depression), their military forces have been weakened by the war in the Middle East, their own populace believes the Government to be responsible for many of the current issues of today (such as 9/11)...and China holds a MAJOR ace in the hole, which is the second largest ammount of US public debt. All they would need to do is call it in, and the States would be economically devestated. So why haven't they, you ask?

They need to paint the States as an aggressor. If they called in the debt, and the States went to war, they would find America once again united as a nation. This is a game of chess...China needs the States to attack North Korea, so it appears as though China is simply coming to the aide of an ally. People in the US would then be more ready to blame their Government (once again) for getting involved in the business of some Island in the Pacific with no real value to US interests.

Right now, China needs only to pull the trigger and the States would be in for a reall sh!t kicking...this is an act of war, make no mistake. And if the chips fall right, this is an act of war that is going to pull the entire world in. Don't think "nuclear devestation" right off the bat...we could still have a war with limited (or no) Nuclear action. That would only come at the end, when one side has gone the way of Hitler, and has their back up against the wall. And believe me...if Hitler had the capability to take us all with him at the end, he would have....that's what scares me.


GtkP

Thank you for your insightful comment. I don't necessarily agree that China is behind this action, as North Korea and China have been growing more distant for over 30 years. It is certainly possible, because after all even though they are not as close as they once were, they are still neighbors and have friendly relations.

North Korea realized that China would not be there for them forever as soon as the Chinese-USA thaw happened (way back when Nixon went over there!) and have pursued their policy of Juche or total self-reliance ever since. Sure, they are not above extorting handouts from do-gooder nations, but they have priorities. Feeding starving senior citizens and starving peasants are simply not as high-priority as feeding the troops, and NK has been squirreling food away for decades now.

Anyway, regardless of China's initial involvement, or lack thereof, they will certainly turn any situation that happens in Korea to their best advantage. China will probably set some ground rules if there is a conflict, eg no NBC warfare. They will doubtless do everything they can to help NK without becoming directly involved, including perhaps sending over some the the 30 million ethnic Korean (and Korean speaking) Chinese citizens, which would provide massive boosting to the ground forces in NK without obviously being from China.

Originally posted by Thepreye
reply to post by HattoriHanzou

 

Ultra useful post, all of the sources listed are so impeccable that even the hawkiest of hawks couldn't object and should be glad of the opportunity to learn.

edit on 23-11-2010 by Thepreye because: (no reason given)

Let's just hope that somebody actually reads them, eh?

Understanding this conflict has been one of my hobbies for years now. It is difficult to get solid information about many aspects of the Korean war even today, and I see the same shroud of fog surrounding North Korea right now.

Live and learn, and hopefully shine the light in somebody's eye along the way.

well,,I beleive North korea topedo'd the ship to start off.

I think their has been very great restraint by south korea and the US with North Korea.

Kinda funny and weird China does'nt invest in North Korea,,they keep it alive enuff with a faint pulse where a vast majority live in poverty and didnt they make some commi law where no one could have more than 5 dollars a little while back???

There are many documentaries that are not FAKE how much a hell hole it is there and China knows it to,,they feed a little money here and there to keep it a buffer zone.

If a citizen there went to the street with a peace sighn/or feed or our children you'd get sentenced to a prison labor force,,,
They are good friends with Chavezs or the midget president of Iran,,,,fidel castro is their wet dream,,,yet even Fidel has more class and feeds his people and trys to run a country,,

The regime their is sick.,,the topp brass 5% run the whole country.

I do beleive its up to the 2 sides there how they play it out.

There is not alot we can do but China could have done more to help stableize their country but a monarch type rule is a bitch I guess to deal with.


(((I know we all/countries have problems but The North Korea is a story of its own,,,,,,theres no propoganda with the conditions there....))))

North korea did it to itself and no one is to blame!!!!!,,,they chose China as their buddy,,,and yet they are in shambles....
Funny why China doesnt INVEST into its alley more,,,,,maybey beacause they know its a lost cause???



Kinda weird being in a county you are not allowed to leave and shot if you try,,,that sums it up to me!!!!
(I wonder what fiedel,chavez,and the Iranian Midget think about that?????)

reply to post by SLAYER69



Please state your point. It seems obvious that neither nation will admit to firing first, whatever the facts may be.

Are you suggesting that because North Korea is "bad" and South Korea is "good" that we then extrapolate the idea that the South can not lie, and the North can only lie?

If that's true, why don't we sit an ambassador from each nation down in a room and ask them a classic Knights and Knaves question!

en.wikipedia.org...

Or, the short version, don't be silly.

reply to post by Justaposter


So you know for a fact that the North fired first, then.

I'd love to have a look at your information sources. They must be of impeccable quality for you to be so sure.

Originally posted by HattoriHanzou

Originally posted by clay2 baraka

Originally posted by HattoriHanzou
Sure, you can "deal with" NK but you're going to have to trade Seoul and possibly Tokyo to do it

Let me clarify this statement:

North Korea will likely wipe Seoul, South Korea and several Japanese cities off the map if we "just nuke em all." Women, children... Mostly civilians. The "nuke em all" statement is a real easy macho attitude to have, while you are thousands of miles away sitting on your fat ass eating nachos and playing Call of Duty with your family safely down the street. .

Grow up. :flame

edit on 11/23/2010 by clay2 baraka because: composition

If you were responding to me, and telling me to "grow up" I think you need to re-read what I said, and be a little more polite in the future.

You don't know a thing about me.

Quite the opposite. I think most people don't consider the actual cost of a military confrontation with N. Korea. I actually noticed that you had referenced it.

Now reread my post.

reply to post by Clisen33


NK does what China says..if not.. they dont eat....China says light some fires on the border.Why? to profit!..It takes the heat out of Iran.But I think israel has had enough.If the Stock markets fall ,I'd bet China comes in for some bargains.But they have miscalculated before,like when Perry put the Gunboat in.my gut feeling isnt good.

Originally posted by Adramalech

Originally posted by Justaposter

Originally posted by HattoriHanzou
reply to post by 1FutureMarine1

 

North Korea is claiming that the South fired first.

Isn't that what any naughty child would do.. point fingers

Yes. They'd also do it if it were true. But all those NKs are liars aren't they, so no need to even doubt that they are lying! LOL

en.wikipedia.org...