all forms of polygamy contribute to the discrimination of women and the sexualisation of young girls

reply to post by Aeons


The only "real" problem, is people judging others based on what THEY think is right.

There is no pure right or wrong when dealing with most problems. There is what is right for you and there is what is right for me.

Even if our two rights conflict, neither of us have to be wrong.

reply to post by Aeons


Ya know what?

You have a whole lot of real life to live before you can judge others>

Originally posted by Annee
reply to post by Aeons

 

Ya know what?

You have a whole lot of real life to live before you can judge others>

Ah, but clearly you are free of judgement yourself. Wide open like a lotus flower you are.

Good cooks should taste from their own pot.

Originally posted by peck420
reply to post by Aeons

 

The only "real" problem, is people judging others based on what THEY think is right.

There is no pure right or wrong when dealing with most problems. There is what is right for you and there is what is right for me.

Even if our two rights conflict, neither of us have to be wrong.

I'll agree to a certain extent. Where choices clearly have an ongoing unacceptable impact on a thirdparty who is at risk, it is an unacceptable situation to indulge in laissez-faire attitudes as a observing reasonable party to that ongoing failure of responsibility.

Originally posted by Aeons

Originally posted by Annee
reply to post by Aeons

 

Ya know what?

You have a whole lot of real life to live before you can judge others>

Ah, but clearly you are free of judgement yourself. Wide open like a lotus flower you are.

Good cooks should taste from their own pot.

Sorry - - but you just spout junk and judgment.

Oh - feel free to attack me. Seems apropos. Bring it on. What better way to prove yourself.

reply to post by Aeons

That is a fair point.

However, do you think that the third party, in this case children, are more at risk with polygamy hidden from public view, or out in the open, integrated with the rest of us?

I don't know about you, but it would seem to me that most cases of poor parenting, from monogamous or polygamous relationships happen in closed environments. Ie: cults, racist camps, etc.

That being said, it makes me want to encourage them even more to live there lives open and free from prejudice.

Now I get to support them and "do it for the children".

Originally posted by peck420
reply to post by Aeons

 

That is a fair point.

However, do you think that the third party, in this case children, are more at risk with polygamy hidden from public view, or out in the open, integrated with the rest of us?

I don't know about you, but it would seem to me that most cases of poor parenting, from monogamous or polygamous relationships happen in closed environments. Ie: cults, racist camps, etc.

That being said, it makes me want to encourage them even more to live there lives open and free from prejudice.

Now I get to support them and "do it for the children".

I'd have fewer problems with it.

Though I will extend my definition of those at risk to immigrant women and children, who are kept in ignorance of their rights, and for whom their husbands use a lack of access to local language education as a means of control. All people who enter the country should be required to access local language training along with citizenship training which includes a section on one's rights and responsibilities under the law, within a couple of years of landing.

As I said at the beginning, I'd prefer the goverenment not be so focused on the polygamy aspect of these groups as the problematic consequences of their behaviours.

Originally posted by peck420

That being said, it makes me want to encourage them even more to live there lives open and free from prejudice.

Now I get to support them and "do it for the children".

Way to go Peck!

Being open is the key.

Originally posted by Aeons
Though I will extend my definition of those at risk to immigrant women and children, who are kept in ignorance of their rights, and for whom their husbands use a lack of access to local language education as a means of control. All people who enter the country should be required to access local language training along with citizenship training which includes a section on one's rights and responsibilities under the law, within a couple of years of landing.

And I will extend my definition of why it is imperative that we welcome and accept them as well.

As we are now starting to see in Canada, we have a growing problem developing right around this issue. We know that when immigrants first come here, they feel much more comfortable living around people that they share cultural roots with. No problem. However, we now have entire communities that have no diversity, no integration. These are the same communities which we are starting to have problems with. Increased violence, increased racial crimes, etc. And this goes with every cultural background.

The problem - isolation/seperation.

This is the same with polygamy, the more accepted it is the fewer problems that will arise. As a matter of fact, this works with any group that percieves themselves as different or outcast. The more accepted they feel, the better the whole group becomes.

It's part of human nature. If we are accepted we begin to see the whole as our family, as our kind. We are more willing to work, help, defend our family, our kind. As soon as a group get's isolated they start to view it as a new family. This seperation is the problem.

Originally posted by peck420

This is the same with polygamy, the more accepted it is the fewer problems that will arise. As a matter of fact, this works with any group that perceives themselves as different or outcast. The more accepted they feel, the better the whole group becomes.

It's part of human nature. If we are accepted we begin to see the whole as our family, as our kind. We are more willing to work, help, defend our family, our kind. As soon as a group get's isolated they start to view it as a new family. This separation is the problem.

Absolutely Peck!

There is a big problem of rape and incest in the Amish community, Why? Because of the same reasons you bring up.

The more a particular group is accepted - - - the more the problems within that group are brought to mainstream awareness.

I am not naive in any sense - - - and realize when individuals from these "cult" situations can come forward into main stream - - - individuals can get their voices heard. They can be vocal about the problems within their community.

I would say it is extremely difficult to leave a culture you were raised in. But if there are problems within that community - - - outside intervention may be required.

Isn't it better to help solve those problems - - - then to treat them like aliens?

I do have a problem with the fundamental Mormons - - - if they continue to revere Warren Jeffs as their leader - - - when it is clear his intentions are not benevolent.

As some say - - - they prefer to solve problems within their belief - - - rather then abandon it.

And then some of those groups will use that acceptance as a platform to recruit your 14 year old daughter to submit to your 55 year old creepy neighbour with the four wives because it's okay. Some God or Prophet said it is right, and you are a bigot if you get in their way.

There are more issues to work out than a free for all love fest.

Originally posted by Aeons
And then some of those groups will use that acceptance as a platform to recruit your 14 year old daughter to submit to your 55 year old creepy neighbour with the four wives because it's okay. Some God or Prophet said it is right, and you are a bigot if you get in their way.

There are more issues to work out than a free for all love fest.

Like any one.

Everyone has their prejudices - - - don't they?

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by Aeons
And then some of those groups will use that acceptance as a platform to recruit your 14 year old daughter to submit to your 55 year old creepy neighbour with the four wives because it's okay. Some God or Prophet said it is right, and you are a bigot if you get in their way.

There are more issues to work out than a free for all love fest.

Like any one.

Everyone has their prejudices - - - don't they?

I absolutely 100% admit to be bigotted against pedophilic creeps and domineering religious zealots.

Mea Culpa. You got me.

Originally posted by Aeons

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by Aeons
And then some of those groups will use that acceptance as a platform to recruit your 14 year old daughter to submit to your 55 year old creepy neighbour with the four wives because it's okay. Some God or Prophet said it is right, and you are a bigot if you get in their way.

There are more issues to work out than a free for all love fest.

Like any one.

Everyone has their prejudices - - - don't they?

I absolutely 100% admit to be bigotted against pedophilic creeps and domineering religious zealots.

Mea Culpa. You got me.

Well - thank you - and so do I.

I am not a supporter of - - 2nd offenders. Alcatraz is still available.

However - - - I do not consider Polygamy itself - - the proponent of evil doing.

Life calls.

I am home for the weekend. Use your imagination. Or don't.

there are a lot of strong arguments either way
looking at history, ppl form communities with other like minded ppl and that is the only way forward

if a community is too divided and there is no consensus it causes more ppl to focus on differences rather than focusing on achievements which help the people of their community

it is all very well to suggest that anything goes should be the rule but history has shown us that people just dont work that way

so I suggest that in the next century we will see people group accordign to what is similar in the way they want to live and splinter off and maybe we will see new countries created this way

this is conjecture of course - we could instead continue being a loggerheads about which way people should have families

you are right to say that the different ways work for different people but at the end of the day we cannot have every sort of family group. ppl will find a way to work these differences out and form a society/country based on similar ways to do some of the basic things [such as form families]

Originally posted by megabyte
. . . . but at the end of the day we cannot have every sort of family group.

Why not? I'm sure we already do.

But - - unless they are part of a "labeled" group - - they just live their lives anonymously.

Originally posted by Aeons
And then some of those groups will use that acceptance as a platform to recruit your 14 year old daughter to submit to your 55 year old creepy neighbour with the four wives because it's okay. Some God or Prophet said it is right, and you are a bigot if you get in their way.

There are more issues to work out than a free for all love fest.

"If we let black people live in Philadelphia, Philadelphia black on black crime rates will remain astronomical

It should be illegal to be black in Philadelphia."

"If we let heterosexual sex be legal, it will result in more male-on-female rape, serial rapists, STD spreading, overpopulation, tax-dollars to support orphans, deaths of mothers during childbirth, prostitution, and sexual exploitation.

Heterosexual sex should be illegal."

"If we let aerotransportation be legal, the "terrorists" will have weapons to use on us

Airplanes should be illegal."

"If we let anal sex be legal, HIV will spread

Anal sex should be illegal."

Cars?

Cigarettes?

Alcohol?

Your arguments are so fail.

Anyways, how are polygamy laws stopping men from using their language barrier to control younger women in arranged (already legal) marriages?

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by megabyte
. . . . but at the end of the day we cannot have every sort of family group.

Why not? I'm sure we already do.

But - - unless they are part of a "labeled" group - - they just live their lives anonymously.

i never said it was a matter of what we allow

I said that the long centuries of history seem to indicate that people form groups around what is centrally right for them to do and the way they wish to organise their lives and these groups tend to be the basis of religious and social and political organisation

I feel that this will happen from the huge variety of opinions that we have at the moment

people tend to segregate themselves into groups of like-minded people

to me - polygamy is the worst thing possible

I cannot even imagine how awful I would feel if I saw my husband showing affection to another woman, or knowing they are in another room or house. I just could not do it

I could not put up with being at home while the husband was off chatting up future wives-to-be

I could not put up with being a wife while the husband takes a love-wife and then having to watch the touching that goes with being in love [the first 18 months or so is a touchy feely phase]

I could not put up with having to go to work and then sharing the money I earn between several adults in a household. I expect the husband to be the bread winner. I could not put up with having to be stuck with a bunch of women. I dont really like talkign to women, I prefer talking to men, and I detest housework and in a house with a bunch of women there would be major disagreements if i did not pull my weight with housework accordign to another woman's standard. I prefer having a husband who will do what I dont want to do as far as housework goes and I would hate to have a husband who compares me to another wife. this is already bad when divorced couples do that and it would be even worse to have a husband compare me to another wife for the rest of my life.

this is simply the most awful family arrangement as far as I can see and I am so grateful that it is not the dominant family arrangement in the country I live in

interestingly polygamy is the dominant family arrangements in primitive societies and as people gain more sophistication and education, polygamy is replaced with monogamy. I know that polygamy is going strong in Australian aboriginal and the new Zealand maoris and of course in tribes in Africa. by contrast you look at countries that are considered as having an advanced civilisation and not one of those countries have polygamy as the dominant way to organise families. Now I am sure that the way these people organised their families came before the advancements that society made in health and scientific knowledge and housing and all the other things that made for an advanced civilisation.

sorry but I do not consider moslem countries to be advanced - they dont even educate all the people in their countries.