**TSA Scanner and Grope Alternative**, is THIS more acceptable? More Human?

Looking only at this from a 'needs" perspective and not solely from a defended position,

WE, and I'm speaking only on those that would be flying on airliners, not on anything else, only that topic,
we need to of course be safe,
there is already a 'built in' risk to flying, any type of malfunction can result in an accident ending in death,
we take that risk willingly when boarding and flying, should something happen at 36,000 ft with engines or pressure or whatever there's tragedy.
That 'built in' possible failure exists at any given moment on any given flight, no one can perform perfect maintainence and assure anyone that parts wont fail,
that 'built in' issue is addressed as best it can be, on the ground, preflight, between flights, with safety checks, inspections, parts replacements, etc by trained mechanics and technicans,
people just like anyone here, we trust that they perform their job well, we dont see them perform their job, but we trust that they do,
that, is the 'built in' safety issue.
WE, (still only speaking on flyers) want to also feel safe in our travels against terrorists, nut jobs, attackers, etc,
I dont want you or your loved ones, or myself or anyone for that matter to ever be put into that 'moment' that we can only imagine, a moment of panic and fear and pending doom when some crazy trys to take over an airliner,
I sure want to feel safe and that the airline that I just bought my ticket from will provide me with the safest possible flight.
I need to feel safe, I also need to feel respected, I need to feel appreciated as a customer as well.
The airline needs to do business, they need to make a profit, they need to provide safe travel.

Looks like we've got at a minimum, 6 basic needs that should be met.
Lets see if we, (the airlines and the customers) can do, through a cooperative effort, our combined best at providing these 6 basic needs.

1-Security clearances and background checks on all employees.
2-Access restrictions to areas by employee groupings.
3-Baggage inspection, thorough xray and sniffer inspections of all baggage, all baggage checked, no carryons.
4-Highly Qualified mechanics and techs, recertification yearly, continual training.
5-Elevated level of parts upgrades and replacements.
6-Locked cockpits, absolutely no access by cabin staff available, no exit by flight crew by a minimum of 10 minutes before leaving boarding area.
7-Trained and Armed flight crew.
8-Air Marshall (or private security) on each flight.
9-Passenger passes through metal detector and sniffer.
10-Passengers seat belts to be secured before leaving boarding area, seat belts are to be thoroughly and individually inspected before leaving boarding area, passenger seat belts are to remain locked through entire flight, passenger seat belts are only able to be released by staff at seat belt unlocking station, passenger seat belts are individually controlled.

Has our need for mutual safety been met?
With the 'built in' issues there will of course always be a chance of electrical or mechanical failure, but with elevated maintainence schedules and parts upgrades and replacements that occurance can be narrowed.
With 'built on' safety issues, we've eliminated items to access in the cabin, all bags are checked, we've employed state of the art metal detectors and explosive sniffing devices, we've secured our passengers comfortably for the entire flight with individually electronic controlled seat belts, (simply push the call button and an attendant will visit you, if you need access to the restroom, one passenger at a time can roam freely, OR one is directed forward and one aft)
We also have an armed air marshall or security person on board, and finally we have a secure cockpit with no access allowed from tarmac to tarmac.

No one has been touched, no one has been discriminated against, no one has been disrespected,
no one has been xrayed, no one has been treated as anything other than a passenger, a customer.

If we need extremes, and in some cases we do, and we will never know in which case that is,
if we need extremes, are these posted here sufficient?
Would these be effective, tolerable, and acceptable by the standards that both parties needs demand.
I personally believe yes.

reply to post by HappilyEverAfter


While there are some issues with these suggestions they are well worth serious consideration, nothing that cant be sorted out.

I havve often wondered what the authorities and the airlines have done to improve on plane safety since 911. Cabin staff and still just waltz into the flight crews area taking in meals, going in for a chat etc. The flight deck door is still just as flimsy as ever and can the poilets see who is on the onther side of the door and whats going on in the passenger are at any time???

cheers

reply to post by bussoboy


There's all this focus on arguing rather than offering alternatives,
of course hind sight is always 20/20, but I thought "what if? 'why not' try these instead.

I think those are common sense, good ideas. I've wondered often what ever happened to the Air Marshalls in the first place. Seems like they probably should have enhanced that first and left our privacy rights alone pending the air marshall concept working or failing.

reply to post by burdman30ott6

There are theories as to why, this is happening, and I do subscribe to almost all of them,
a revisiting of this current condition and a change towards something more as to what I provided would go far in removing not only the theories in question, but the intrusive and humiliating searches recently put in place.
A continued argument 'for' these searches when an alternative is offered will also only reconfirm the suspected real agenda.
There's more to this than meets the eye thats for sure.

how about this, shackles and leg irons for all passengers. no washroom privileges unless accompanied by two armed flight crew.

this should cut down all airline hijackings.

Originally posted by randomname
how about this, shackles and leg irons for all passengers. no washroom privileges unless accompanied by two armed flight crew.

this should cut down all airline hijackings.

That's a little extreme dont you think?
I didnt go that far, and I dont think I really am creating anything thing more than whats experienced on a rollercoaster, or amusement ride.
I dont see anyone being disrespected, touched, or radiated?
Do you?

I think a simple acceptance of the fact that crazy people do crazy things and so long as it is not an epidemic which makes air travel unsafe to the same level as say car travel or bus travel, then leave it be. We don't need to "ehanced" search people, either with mechanical means (scanners) or pat downs. Check for metal and check for chemicals (with trained dogs or electronic noses) and call it good. If the air crew is trained in close quarters combat and there is a security agent on the flight to handle the extremes, the rest is up to fate.

As I have said before, event with terrorists, it is safer to take a plane than to drive.

reply to post by rogerstigers


I agree yet it seems the reality is that it's not going to completely go away so there should be some dialogue as to alternatives and speaking out on what 'is' acceptable.
I am not for this at all but why isnt there a flood of not just complaints but alternatives,
I see this as a an 'introduction' of a system, a system that will soon be put everywhere if it isnt killed very very quickly.

With the profit potential to be so great do you actually think they will stop installing these anytime soon, or do you see a continued program of installation at every available venue?
Corporate greed will have a conscience, or limit in this case?
I think not.

Dang ! All this fervor about TSA searches and violations, one would have thought there'd be more interaction in offering alternatives and idea sharing and not just war drum pounding and fear drops !
Well that would give an indication that maybe that's what people want,
War drums and fear.
Oh Well.

www.sandia.gov...

Came upon this in another thread,
very awesome non-invasive technology, coupled with a metal detector and youre results are going to even greater than what we currently have going on at these degrading points.

Now this gives you an even better Idea of the long train of abuses.