Revelation; Seven kings and an eighth

reply to post by mythatsabigprobe

To be honest, I think life is simpler if I pay no attention to the non-Biblical prophecies.
Once we get into them, where do we stop, and how distinguish between good ones and bad ones?
So I haven't formed any views on this one.
I suppose I'm really expecting the sequence of Popes to continue on regardless, but I may not be around by the time we definitely know one way or the other.

reply to post by DISRAELI


Fair enough. As prophecies go, I think they're quite remarkable in that we can identify the timeline and where we are today. The biblical prophecies have so many possible interpretations they just leave me scratching my head.

Originally posted by DISRAELI

Originally posted by Maigret
The Scarlet Beast is the body/congregation while the BEAST / Eighth Head that 'was, is not and yet shall be present' is the 'resurrected' Antichrist.

These two beasts are one and the same beast. The chapter very clearly identifies them, and the distinction between them is a false distinction.

Note how in v8 the beast that "was and is not" etc is called the beast "WHICH YOU SAW", ie the one at the beginning of the chapter, the scarlet beast.
Note how, as this introduction indicates, the whole point of the passage from v7 onwards is to explain to John the meaning of the beast WHICH YOU SAW, ie the one at the beginning of the chapter, the scarlet beast.
The scarlet beast carries the woman.
The beast being described from v7 carries the woman.
They are the same beast.
The text gives you no reason to distinguish between them, especially when the second is explictly presented as the fuller explanation of the first.
As Occam said, "do not multiply entitiies".

I've already identified the main fault in your method. You're making assumptions about what ought to be happening, and stubbornly trying to impose them on the text, instead of drawing your conclusions out of the text.
Throw all these assumptions away.
READ THE TEXT.

edit on 18-11-2011 by DISRAELI because: (no reason given)

reply to post by DISRAELI


You're saying that the Beast that was, is not and yet shall be present is the same as the Scarlet Beast?
You state that I am making assumptions?
You say that I should read the text?

Read Verses 10 &11 which say 'There are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is and the other has not yet come. And when he comes, he must continue for a short time. And the Beast that was, and is not, is himself also the eighth [of these heads/kings/hills of the Scarlet Beast], is of the seven, and is going to perdition'.
Reading this text/verse, it is clear that the Scarlet Beast and the Beast/Eighth King that was, is not and yet shall be present, are two different beasts and that the eighth head is not yet visible.

reply to post by Maigret

I've got to rest on the identification made in ch17 v8, which is unrelenting;
"The beast which you saw [the scarlet beast] was and is not...and is to go to perdition"; the whole beast.
This is later repeated about "the eighth".

And the text does not say that the Beast which is involved in the attack on the Harlot in v16 ("they and the beast will hate the Harlot") is any other Beast than the one it has been talking about all through the chapter. It just continues saying "the Beast", the one that was mentioned previously.

The solution which I adopted in ch13, and would repeat here, is that each head, as a corporate state, is "the current manifestation of the beast for its own time" (so that the overall Beast is actually the whole sequence of states).
Then "the eighth", similarly, as a corporate body, is the current manifestation of the beast for its own time.

In the OP I drew attention to the very suggestive sequence in ancient Roman history in which the legendary seven kings of Rome were then followed by the Roman Republic- a corporate body, and effectively the eighth in the sequqnce.

reply to post by DISRAELI



From: en.wikipedia.org...

In the 1920s, the papacy — then under Pius XI — renounced the bulk of the Papal States and the Lateran Treaty (or Concordat) with Italy was signed on February 11, 1929, creating the State of the Vatican City, forming the sovereign territory of the Holy See, which was also indemnified to some degree for loss of territory.

No other popes were sovereigns / kings of this particular sovereign state formed in 1929... only the last seven have been.

[B]IMHO:[/B]

Pope Benedict XVI is the Olive; peacemaker and he was 'called' by Pope John Paul II on his last physical public appearance during Easter (20 April) when he lifted and Olive Branch in his bedroom window to bless the people.

PETRUS ROMANUS is reflecting on all popes; being the assigned rulers over the Church said to be established by the Apostle Peter almost 2,000 years ago. If you read the last section of Malachy agian; think in the line of 'When all of these has ruled, and during their rules faced numerious tribulations, took care of the 'sheep' - then when this passed there will be the Terrible Judge; the city of seven hills (could be in order of likelyness Rome, Jerusalem, Athens, Tehran, Istanbul) will be destroyed.

Pope Benedict XVI is in very weak physical condition. Is time running out?

I wrote an essay Here

Just to clarify;
Nothing in the OP is intended to suggest any particular prophetic significance in the year 2012 or the date 21/12/2012

reply to post by DISRAELI


My response to the claims made about the year 2012 was that I could see no prophetic significance in the date.
This position seems to have been vindicated.

Most analysis that stems from the Christian churches in regard to Revelation going no further than the Roman empire is due to the church cleric councils being "8th King" controlled; that is the globalist override of the "Christian" "harlot" system includes the mainstream academic system's main teachings which is there to promote confusion, division and uncertainty regarding Bible prophecy. From there the mainstream churches are trained to follow the 666, considering the globalist 8th King as the "saviors of the Jews", because the elites are who mold Israel's modern history as the carrot to lead the church sector to the 666 by.

A clue is researching just who propped up the Israeli state since 1917. The Rothschilds, Balfour. The churches think God has done all this, "it is all Isaiah prophecy fulfilling brothers!" thus the Rothschilds are "God" to the churches in this sleight of hand trick and the leading will continue to the "scarlet wild beast" sold to the churches as "the Kingdom of God on earth brothers!", because that is the basic gist of the church message. Thus the church clergy is how this infiltration has occurred and it is literally hundreds of years old.

This kind of well engineered delusion is also there to promote a premature "the end of the world" delusion among the churches, with its obligatory church "rapture" theory. That will aid the world government cycle coming up at which time the whole "Christian" engineered prophecy will be fully discredited prior to the global dissolution of that institutional network. As it progresses new "insights" will be fed into the globalist controlled Christian seminary and academic systems to account for the error, and so on—of course by then it will be too late for that system. (Rev17:15-18); Thus backwardizing the church cleric teaching system will have reached its goal. The answer was in prophecy all along, merely overrun with dated error by the basic know-it-alls that come from the seminary systems as led by the globalist collective social brain engineers—including that in the churches.

All organized religion is 8th King system controlled. Now we know who the 8th King is, it is the globalist elite "King North" world government system formed by their "two horned wild beast" Anglo-American globalist elite globalization system main engineers. By now it is COMMON SENSE, not so much "prophetic interpretation" any longer. This is because in reality (not church fantasy), prophecy always becomes world history in time.

The "7th King" "King South" nation-state system is that which is about to be financially deposed (Dan11:42-43) globally into 8th King world government over the final cycle as Daniel 11:42-45 and Revelation 17:11-18, Rev16:13-16. That takes a number of years to accomplish. 8th King (King North parallel) is globalized world government, "7th King" (King South parallel) is the Anglo-American national alliance system forming the basis of that globalization.

With the aid of much globalism research (and the handy Web) this is all becoming pretty easy to decifer now, much of it is plain common sense with a little awareness of ones global surroundings. World government is their goal, they will reach it (Rev17:12), and that will trigger the arrival of the Conqueror.

Thus keeping people focused on ancient Rome and the Saturnic Catholic Church also helps keep people, especially Christians, unaware of modern reality. Now the whole Christian system is in checkmate, they are all in reality supporting the globalist world government agenda and its final cycle premature "dooms day" expectation which ultimately aids world government global acceptance in their sector of global influence by this hyped doom.

Instead 8th King world government arrives well before Jesus Christ, and the churches and other religions will be holding the 666 empty bag when that all transpires fully duping the whole by use of the main delusion.