Why The Unfair & Unbalanced Political Correctness Regarding Homosexuality?

Originally posted by ModernAcademia
I already answered this question in my OP before anyone brought it up
because it's always been brought up!

You didn't really answer it, though. You said you care for the same reason you care about anything. That doesn't tell me squat.

Tell me one thing, would I be able to turn your statement into "Why do people have any interest in Sociology?"

You are a human being, part of a society. Sociology affects you. It's part of you. Homosexuality apparently isn't. The only reason I can see for you to bring it up again and again is to convince yourself of something.

What kind of closure are you looking for? For us all to agree that it's a choice? Because that's not going to happen.

Is the gay community not part of our society?

Yes, but so are dog-lovers. Are you concerned with people who love dogs? Are there anti-dog-lover and pro-dog-lover threads? Do they love dogs by CHOICE or were they born into it? Is it a pressing concern? Is it ANY of your business? Why the focus on gay people?

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
It's because too many people are so opposed to talking about and because of that THERE'S NEVER ANY CLOSURE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm not at all opposed to talking about it. What do you want to know? What are you saying? That's it's a choice? We can talk ourselves blue in the face and there won't be any closure. People disagree. Welcome to life. There's NOT going to be closure on this for you. There are ALWAYS going to be people who disagree with your point. Just like abortion threads and gun control threads. People usually come down on one side or another of these issues. We're NOT going to agree. Why beat it to death? What is your real reason? That's what I'd like to know. What's it to you?

The topic remains open FOREVER, do you think that the fault of this belongs to people making the threads or the one's opposed to discussion and only respond by saying "Why do you care", "you are offensive", "It's none of your business"

There is no fault. There are people who have different opinions. That doesn't mean that something is WRONG.

Because some people, for whatever reason, are so damn opposed to a mature discussion.

OK. I am totally willing to have a mature discussion. Tell me what your basic issue is - what do you want to discuss - and I will discuss it with you. Maturely.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
You didn't really answer it, though. You said you care for the same reason you care about anything. That doesn't tell me squat.

It doesn't to you
That doesn't mean it doesn't to others

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Homosexuality apparently isn't. The only reason I can see for you to bring it up again and again is to convince yourself of something.

That's extremely, I mean EXTREMELY narrow-minded

Do you know how many threads on different topics I create?
Tell me something, Life on Mars, how does that affect anyone on ATS?
How does Quasars or Blazars affect the everyday ATS'er?

Why are you so opposed to people discussing issues?
This behavior is the main reason why there are so many threads on the issue.

Furthermore you wonder why I want to discuss the issue, I can equally if not MORE wonder why you are so against it.
If people want to talk about a given topic, then ok cool
But people who want to shut a topic up... well to me they are the one that wishes to hide something.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
What kind of closure are you looking for? For us all to agree that it's a choice? Because that's not going to happen.

That doesn't mean you have to try and curb dialogue
Whether you believe in any possibility of closure or not at least not taking your route won't make the discussion so defensive.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Yes, but so are dog-lovers.

Are you concerned with people who love dogs? Are there anti-dog-lover and pro-dog-lover threads? Do they love dogs by CHOICE or were they born into it? Is it a pressing concern? Is it ANY of your business? Why the focus on gay people?

This is the Social Issues section, this is where such a discussion would take place
If you are against this section please take it with the staff not members

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
I'm not at all opposed to talking about it. What do you want to know? What are you saying? That's it's a choice?

Read my OP and you'll know what I want this discussion to be about
As far as my other questions, they should be answered in those other applicable threads.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
We can talk ourselves blue in the face and there won't be any closure.

Great, so let's just bicker?

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
There is no fault. There are people who have different opinions. That doesn't mean that something is WRONG.

THANK YOU
Maybe now we can begin a civil discussion instead of remaining in a cyclical windstorm going back in forth as to why people want to discuss this topic.
Because as you said, people have different opinions

Because some people, for whatever reason, are so damn opposed to a mature discussion.

OK. I am totally willing to have a mature discussion. Tell me what your basic issue is - what do you want to discuss - and I will discuss it with you. Maturely
Really?
Are you sure you are ready?

If so why say you are ready only after all of what was said above?
Why not just maturely jump into a mature discussion?

Why not have some faith in humanity and that if we discuss an issue with civility instead of just opposing the topic maybe, just maybe humanity will progress.

What do I want to know?
As far as THIS thread is concerned it's in the OP
as far as other questions, they are in the other threads I created

If the topic is sociology....

Theories have erupted as of late because evidently throughout social history of people suppressing the idea of homosexuality as a choice end up being caught in homosexual acts and have homosexual tendencies that they hide from other people. This is why they think that it is "a choice" -- because they are making their own personal choice by suppressing their own, typically slight, homosexual tendencies (which are completely natural by the way -- fact). Many hate crimes against homosexuals are perpetrated by people who have rumors about them going around that they are homosexual, or have been scorned for engaging in homosexual acts, and they want to cover that up or "rectify themselves" as heterosexuals. Many philosophers and sociologists have suggested that there is a homosexuality spectrum, and almost all of the people who are in the center range will consider themselves straight and therefore reserve that homosexuality is a choice.

Your other argument, as I understand... is that "the gays" will argue that it is their choice, and then argue that it is not a choice? Well, "Gays" are not a group think, for one. Secondly, the typical "Christian" argument is that it is your choice to engage in homosexual acts. So that is the "choice" that is being argued from that standpoint. Whereas the main "choice" usually in question is referring to the homosexual thoughts and desires.

Sorry, sweetheart, taking a harsh stance against homosexuality as repeatedly as you do -- regardless of the counter-argument -- is kind of a flashing red light. If you are really concerned why don't you do some research? Sounds like you just want to make it known that you are heterosexual based on my sociological education... well... congratulations?

So....

..."Why do you care?"

Just "curious"... for sociological reference, ya know?

Originally posted by Brood
Evidently throughout social history of people suppressing the idea of homosexuality as a choice end up being caught in homosexual acts and have homosexual tendencies that they hide from other people.

Link?
Otherwise that's the equal of an anti-gay saying people are gay because their uncle abused them.

I agree with neither!

Originally posted by Brood
This is why they think that it is "a choice" -- because they are making their own personal choice by suppressing their own, typically slight,

That's a massive generalization with zero fact
you keep saying fact without a link, that sucks!

Originally posted by Brood
homosexual tendencies (which are completely natural by the way -- fact).

Again no link

Originally posted by Brood
Many hate crimes against homosexuals are perpetrated by people who have rumors about them going around that they are homosexual,

Define many in percentage of homosexual attacks and please offer a link

Originally posted by Brood
or have been scorned for engaging in homosexual acts, and they want to cover that up or "rectify themselves" as heterosexuals. Many philosophers and sociologists have suggested that there is a homosexuality spectrum, and almost all of the people who are in the center range will consider themselves straight and therefore reserve that homosexuality is a choice.

Again, that's like an anti-gay saying people are gay because they were abused as children

Originally posted by Brood
Your other argument, as I understand... is that "the gays" will argue that it is their choice, and then argue that it is not a choice? Well, "Gays" are not a group think, for one. Secondly, the typical "Christian" argument is that it is your choice to engage in homosexual acts. So that is the "choice" that is being argued from that standpoint. Whereas the main "choice" usually in question is referring to the homosexual thoughts and desires.

Not necessarily
For example many lesbians are only lesbian not because they would fit in the "they were born this way" perspective but rather because after having bad experiences with men they give up on men.
I'm sure you are aware of this.

Originally posted by Brood
Sorry, sweetheart, taking a harsh stance against homosexuality as repeatedly as you do

To me an ad-hominem is to lose a debate by default
But i'll let you go with this one

Originally posted by Brood
Sounds like you just want to make it known that you are heterosexual based on my sociological education... well... congratulations?

It's like so many people on the opposing side of the fence just CANNOT stay on topic

Everyone Please Read This:

Can everyone who wishes to know why me, or others with similar threads, are so curious about this topic, how about you create a thread on why do people care and ONLY keep that question in that thread instead of derailing other threads that have nothing to do with this.

I promise, i'll be an active participant in that thread, but please stop flooding other threads with these same old cliché retorts.

Just stay on topic in other threads and this one

As for why do people care?
If you really want to know then why not make a thread about it?
Why instead derail other threads?
Why?

Why create all this useless back and forth?

I am not anti-gay, if gay people want to be gay that's their decision
But there are many anti-gays out there
and because of people like you who refuse to have a mature dialogue are the main reason why there are still so many of anti-gays.

I truly believe that

Why do I make these threads?
Well I want to have a dialogue and every thread on the topic i made has been derailed
So, ATS still has yet to have a mature discussion about this topic!

Originally posted by ModernAcademia
Can we truly evolve as a society with this approach?

Why does "society" need to care about a person's private life in order to evolve?

An "evolved society" is one that is accepting of both personal liberties and personal choices.

reply to post by ModernAcademia

But the other thing is that these same people that say that "you aren't homosexual so you don't know, and who are you to tell me who I am" when debating that homosexuality IS a choice.

Only they aren't saying that heterosexuality is a choice, they're saying that in order to be in their shoes you would have to have been born gay. Its sort of like if a black person mentions that you'd have to be black in order to have experienced racism the same way they have, they're not saying its a choice (duh)

For the record all the science points towards homosexuality NOT being a choice. If it was a choice I'm guessing a good majority of gays would choose to be straight. Who would voluntarily choose a lifestyle that would lead to them being reviled by religious folks, bullied and chastised by society and denied basic rights that everyone else has - no one would choose that and even if they did that wouldn't be a reason to keep denying them those rights would it?

reply to post by ModernAcademia


Just another pseudo-adult who needs to be educated and demands education of others.

Unfortunately I've surfaced this information for others in the thousands over my lifetime. That's the part you're incapable of understanding. Get some perspective, silly. You are not a rare breed of shallow thinking!

You're a big girl.

Do it yourself.

Originally posted by ModernAcademia

That's a massive generalization with zero fact
you keep saying fact without a link, that sucks!

That would be why I introduced it as a theory instead of a fact. Get it?

Maybe that's where we differ? I acknowledge theories as theories and facts as facts ?

Originally posted by Brood
homosexual tendencies (which are completely natural by the way -- fact).

Again no link


Sorry I'll link you to my 7th, 8th, 9th, 10th, 11th, and 12th grade teachers. Again, not my fault you are not educated. Do your own research, adult. Homosexual thoughts are completely natural. Don't come whining to me for a link and think you are retaining any dignity in regards to your education.

Originally posted by Brood
Many hate crimes against homosexuals are perpetrated by people who have rumors about them going around that they are homosexual,

Define many in percentage of homosexual attacks and please offer a link

I'll get your research started, I don't want to enable you like everyone else in your life clearly does. Look up some of these things I'd be ashamed to hear you know nothing about:

Matthew Shepard
Larry King
Republican Anti-Gay influence vs. Curtained Gay Activity.
The reputation of the Church with homosexual representatives that advocate anti-homosexuality for getting caught in homosexual acts

Not necessarily
For example many lesbians are only lesbian not because they would fit in the "they were born this way" perspective but rather because after having bad experiences with men they give up on men.
I'm sure you are aware of this.

Like I said. Not a group think. Female sexual desire evidently much different than male sexual desire, and on top of that not everyone is homosexual based on the same grounds with the same boundaries. I cannot accurately answer your question because I don't know enough about it (see how easy that is? ).

Originally posted by Brood
Sounds like you just want to make it known that you are heterosexual based on my sociological education... well... congratulations?

It's like so many people on the opposing side of the fence just CANNOT stay on topic

On the contrary, this issue is in the OP and my entire post was set up to relate them. It is very much the topic. If you don't understand that, it is not my problem. Much like your misunderstanding of many other things that are not my problem.

Good luck with your research.

Originally posted by ModernAcademia
Everyone Please Read This:

Can everyone who wishes to know why me, or others with similar threads, are so curious about this topic, how about you create a thread on why do people care and ONLY keep that question in that thread instead of derailing other threads that have nothing to do with this.

This IS the damn topic! You brought it up in the OP! Just because you don't like the response you've gotten about it you are now telling everyone it is "off-topic"?

Give me a break.

I think I have to agree that its part nature/part nurture like a lot of other things.

I would like to offer some theories on the rise of homosexuality, outside of the idea that society allows people to be more open now:

1. Chemicals in the environment causing issues with sex assignment in the womb? Basically, the SRY gene acting "funny" due to mutation. More Here

1a. ...or chemicals causing problems with natural testosterone/phermone production?

2. An evolutionary (or nature's) response to over population? While modern fertilization techniques allow same-sex couples to have biological children, if left to nature, procreation would not be possible, lowering overall population.

3. A high number of people who were born as hermaphrodites, were then butchered to be made males or females based on parental preference, not biological indicators, who then grow-up feeling (rightfully so) that they are the wrong sex.

Overall, my point is there may be a lot of factors that play in to this.

reply to post by Titen-Sxull

For the record all the science points towards homosexuality NOT being a choice.

Someone explain bisexuality to me, in regards to choice,

Just curious

reply to post by indianajoe77


I think there are many factors as well, I was watching a program a few weeks back and the had some excerpts from something called the white party,

There are just to many good looking gay guys, what a waste,

reply to post by Stormdancer777


What are you talking about in regards to a white party and how does that relate to my post?

I'm confused.

reply to post by indianajoe77


Not all of my thoughts were in regards to your post., just agreeing on the many factors point you made.

Originally posted by ModernAcademia
What do I want to know?
As far as THIS thread is concerned it's in the OP

OK, I'll do my best to answer the OP. But the reason I asked you to rephrase is because I don't UNDERSTAND the OP.

Originally posted by ModernAcademia
So how come heteros can't say that homosexuality isn't a choice but the other side of the fence is able to say that heterosexuality is a choice?

This is the first question I'm seeing in the OP. And frankly, I don't understand it. Who is "the other side of the fence"? The question doesn't make sense. I don't remember anyone EVER saying that heterosexuality is a choice.

So is it just an obsession over political correctness?

Is WHAT an obsession over political correctness?

So is it nothing more than political or social correctness?

Is WHAT nothing more than PC-ness?

I'm not trying to be difficult. I promise. This is why I asked you to tell me what your concern is. Because I don't understand the OP. I'm sorry. Can you re-phrase or something?

To add: All that stuff you said about me trying to suppress discussion about it or curb dialogue? Totally wrong! I believe talking about it is the only way we're going to get anywhere. You're completely off-base with that assumption. Just so you know. I have no desire to stop talk about it.

reply to post by Stormdancer777


I'm not sure but my guess is bi-sexuality is just like homo and heterosexuality, these people are born being attracted to both sexes. Sometimes they don't discover this until later in life. I still don't think its a choice although once a person realizes they are bisexual I imagine they are now free to make the "choice" of which sex they want to predominantly date...

Everyone should have the same rights. Even if homosexuality and bisexuality were a choice it still wouldn't be a good reason to deny them the right to marry who they choose

Originally posted by ModernAcademia please stop flooding other threads with these same old cliché retorts.

It's not a cliche retort. It's a real question. It's like me starting threads about which side of the bed people sleep on. I would have to ask the person, "Why do you care"? unless it was in chit-chat. What business is it of yours what side of the bed we sleep on? That's MY reason for asking why you care. It's NOT a way to shut you up.

Originally posted by Stormdancer777
Someone explain bisexuality to me, in regards to choice,

Hi storm.

I think we are all on a continuum as regards sexuality:


Gay-------------Mostly gay-------------Bisexual-------------Mostly straight------------Straight

People can be born ANYWHERE along this continuum. I don't think there's any choice involved for anyone.

Now, some people who are "mostly straight" might only have one or two homosexual experiences in their lives. Having a homosexual experience doesn't make you a homosexual. But people do experiment. I've known very few people who actually fall right in the center. Most lean toward the extremes, but not all.

So, I don't think there's any choice about being bisexual, gay or straight, the only choice is in who one decides to have sex with.

Originally posted by mister.old.school
Why does "society" need to care about a person's private life in order to evolve?

An "evolved society" is one that is accepting of both personal liberties and personal choices.

No that's not the point
the point is you guys are just causing tension between the two lines
and this causes nothing to reach any milestone of progression

Also, it's not just about a person's private life, there's alot more to it than that

Originally posted by Brood

Originally posted by ModernAcademia
Everyone Please Read This:

Can everyone who wishes to know why me, or others with similar threads, are so curious about this topic, how about you create a thread on why do people care and ONLY keep that question in that thread instead of derailing other threads that have nothing to do with this.

This IS the damn topic! You brought it up in the OP! Just because you don't like the response you've gotten about it you are now telling everyone it is "off-topic"?

Give me a break.

edit on 19-11-2010 by Brood because: (no reason given)

Wait so let me get this straight

I ask why do people avoid a question and the proper way is to not answer why people avoid a question but to... avoid the question?

You need to read the OP again!