do you have to lie most of the time?

Originally posted by Tayesin
reply to post by megabyte

 

No, not just social situations. I am honest in every situation and do not care for Laws or cultural mores of my society.. I am an outsider living on ther fringes so I do not care what anyone thinks of me or my words... including Officialdom

Example: I recently was asked a question by a Tactical Response Group member in my house, "Where did I get 'such and such' from?".. I had the option to tell the truth, to not answer or to be totally honest.. I chose totally honest and replied, "I'm not stupid. You know exactly where I got it otherwise you would not be here." Sure he didn't like it, but the others laughed well enough. It's not like he could make matters any worse in that moment.

With the old woman scenario.. if it were me, I would have walked out of the vets and found another way to deal with the situation. My local council by-laws state that cats have to be registered and implanted.. I refuse. I had them desexed after a litter each, and keep them in at night, etc. If a council man arrives here to take them away, he will have to bring cops and they will have to shoot me because I will not relent.

The law is an ass and I will kick it if I have to.

Live standing up and not on your knees.

To those who think everyone is a liar.. you need to realise that just because it has become accepted and even expected so much as it is in the States and other countries, it is not necessarily the case everywhere in the world. And there are still a few of us who prefer total honesty to having a bunch of good-time only yes-friends. How many friends you have is not an indicator of your status. A good friend will be totally honest with you at all times, even if you don't want to hear it. These are the ones worth having a friendship with, all others are only associates.. people you know.

Being totally honest requires a person to be able to think laterally, be quick with the mind in order not to be led into a binding situation. You do not have to follow all the rules.. you can live quietly, invisibly in fact and still be 100% honest at all times. You do not have to Follow society, or even play it's games. You can play your own game if you are into game playing.. or you can simply stand firm and strong and not waiver in the face of all the pressure to become part of the problem and not the solution.

edit on 19-11-2010 by Tayesin because: (no reason given)

ok so what you are saying is that you would lie by omission rather than comission?

as in - if not asked the question then dont say anything, but if asked then answer honestly and to hell with consequences?

so with the issue about my cats - I have to live with the lie that I have to block out my windows so that when the council sends out their inspector they dont see my cats sitting in the window

I am suggesting that there are too many laws and regulations and we are so over governed that we have to lie [by omision if not by comission] all the time

yes cats are supposed to be microchipped here and registered and I refuse, as microchipping has been asociated with tumours and how can I register my cats when I have to lie and say they dont exist?

so back to lying that I dotn have cats here - but why should honest people be forced to have to lie?

reply to post by megabyte


Definately agree there are far too many rules and regulations, it's one thing that really irks me these days... and the growing number of people with IQ's below 90 doing stupid things around me. Hope that doesn't sound nasty, it's just an observation.

Yes, to hell with it seems to be my approach. and it can have some drawbacks for sure. I was once told not to shrink to save other people's comfort zones, and that is how I live. Officialdom doesn't usually take a liking to me and it can react badly at times. Not many people like me at all, but I'm not here to be popular. I'm here to help change things by speaking about them, and modelling the behaviour required to make the changes needed.

If I don't then I am just part of the problem with no hope of solution.

Excellent thread! I am delighted to discover that someone is actually concerned about lying! This is a rarity in my everyday life.

I find lying extremely unpleasant, no matter how "small", "white", "harmless" or whatever a lie is considered. There is no good lies for me. All lies lead to ignorance. I try as hard as I can to avoid lying whenever it is possible, but I have suffered much because of my honesty, for people very often seem to get my intentions wrong.

So I feel somehow "forced" to lie. It's not that somebody really forces me, but I still haven't found the "peaceful" way to be honest all the time. I lie mostly about the way I feel about things to avoid explanations that people just don't understand.

reply to post by ElevenFlint


Have you ever said something nice to someone who was having a bad day that wasn't fully true that's a lie? Not telling the truth to help someone is better sometimes. Being honest can just be plain rude.

reply to post by Tayesin


Have you ever lied?

I have, but I try to be as honest as possible and I am pretty succesful. When I was young I used to lie a lot. Lying eventually will get you in trouble. It requires you to remember all you have said, or you get caught. So it should be quite exhausting to lie all the time.

-v

Originally posted by Xiamara
reply to post by ElevenFlint

 

Have you ever said something nice to someone who was having a bad day that wasn't fully true that's a lie? Not telling the truth to help someone is better sometimes. Being honest can just be plain rude.

When lying we are not helping anyone, maybe in a shallow way but not in the way they really need it.. to take stock of their self without rose coloured glasses.

And being honest does not have to be Rude. It all comes down to how a thing is worded and said to a person. You can be totally honest without having to be rude.

Originally posted by v01i0
reply to post by Tayesin

 

Have you ever lied?

Yes I have, many times. Too many to count as a child and teenager, a few more as a young adult. And all until I worked out that I want no part of Dishonesty after seeing the effects others cause in this world.

Lying as a way of being creates an upside down pyramid of told untruths.. it wobbles around waiting for the one mistake that brings the whole thing crashing down... which can destroy lives far worse than any truth could.

reply to post by Tayesin


I would have to argue no... Lying does help, trust me. My parents thought I was going to never walk again at age 5 and rather than tell me I wasn't they told me everything was going to be okay the doctors will fix you. Thanks to that I had hope and luckily I was able to walk. Do you want to tell a 5 year old they might have MS and can't walk because the world sucks? No its cruel, instead you lie tell them its going to be okay and give them some hope since without hope there is nothing.

Thats my opinion if the truth is just going to hurt someone and cause more pain than a small lie I will lie. If you have kids you lie to them say there's a Santa a tooth fairy and the Easter bunny. When I baby sat I use to tell the kids mommy will be home soon its a lie but it helps them fall asleep and calm them down why say oh mommy wont be home for another 5 hours. That's going to stress them out more.

reply to post by Xiamara

No, I would not lie to them, I would explain that they could walk if they set their mind to it and try every day... that would not be lying as it is quite possible. I should know, at 19 I broke my back in a motorcycle accident, was told I would never walk again.. told them what to do with that idea and set my mind to walking out within a week... no other thoughts but that. And I did, exactly one week later when I left the spinal unit and went home... still walking now over 30 years later.. not including the few times everything stopped working and dumped me on the floor.

So I would offer a positive that is possible, not a lie that could become possible.

reply to post by Tayesin


So what about santa and the easter bunny? Is it wrong to indulge children in a fantasy?

Also your example. The chances of walking properly after a serious break involving paralysis of the lower extremities is slim. Seeing as the chances are so low is it a lie to say you'll be able to walk again? I think yes. Sometimes no matter how much you will yourself to do something it just wont happen. I'm an optimist but sometimes you have to be a realist.

reply to post by Xiamara


Not meaning to be a buttinski here, but I'm with the other member on this one.

While I can not say I don't lie, I feel dirty every time I lie. I started making a conscience effort to not lie after my cousin was born. I went to see her in the hospital the day after, and she looked like squishy ball of skin. That's what babies look like. Walking out my mom was like what did you think. I said "Well, she's a baby" she was like what? and I was like, "I'm not going sit here and say oh she's so cute when she aint. Most babies are really weird looking" It's the truth, she laughed and that was that.

As far as the topic, and lieing to live in society, no you really don't. Pretty much you have three options, two of which are immediate. One, get rid of extra cats and get a doctor that will give you the prescriptions you want. At least here in the states that isn't hard to do, I could name the doctor in my town that will give you whatever you want. They want your money. Your other option, say to hell with the rules and keep on breaking them, but don't live in fear.

The third, since you seem to have a special spot for cats, lobby to get the law changed. I am of the opinion that is a stupid law, you should be able to have as many cats as you want.

Editing this part here: Should have re read THEN posted. It seems you "need" the codeine for the same reason I did when I had the flu: to help me sleep better. Get off that habit quick. It's bad bad bad. AFter only a week of it I had trouble sleeping without it.

Originally posted by Xiamara
reply to post by Tayesin

 

So what about santa and the easter bunny? Is it wrong to indulge children in a fantasy?

Also your example. The chances of walking properly after a serious break involving paralysis of the lower extremities is slim. Seeing as the chances are so low is it a lie to say you'll be able to walk again? I think yes. Sometimes no matter how much you will yourself to do something it just wont happen. I'm an optimist but sometimes you have to be a realist.

Hi,

I didn't do the Santa and Easter Bunny thing with my daughter, Society took away my right and did it for me until at age 8 she asked me if they were real. I asked her what she thought and she said, No. So I told her that was right. Didn't have to lie to her at all.

With spinal injuries, never give up is the most effective approach. Not saying to say You Will Be Able to Walk Again.. just saying that the idea of it being possible is there no matter what the specialists say. Hence why I would do as I said previously.

Thanks for the conversation, it has been stimulating.

reply to post by megabyte


I lie all the time, like every damn day and not just with chemists or doctors but to anyone at any given opportunity, Huge whoppers just for fun. Man! I look back over my life and remember those halcyon days spent lieing to friends, myself, relatives and strangers and it brings a real warmth, you know?

Anyway It seems you're at the point where you have to lie due to illness, the only advice I can give you is to LEAN INTO LIEING! because the real fun is just around the corner my friend.

reply to post by Tayesin


I guess that's how we differ, It has been nice chatting. I'll still lie to my children and let them experience what society gave them, its a fun holiday. One that was a happy memory in my childhood a lie I liked believing. And If my children were to experience what I did, i would lie to them and tell them its ok its all going to be okay.

Originally posted by iamsupermanv2
reply to post by Xiamara

 

Not meaning to be a buttinski here, but I'm with the other member on this one.

While I can not say I don't lie, I feel dirty every time I lie. I started making a conscience effort to not lie after my cousin was born. I went to see her in the hospital the day after, and she looked like squishy ball of skin. That's what babies look like. Walking out my mom was like what did you think. I said "Well, she's a baby" she was like what? and I was like, "I'm not going sit here and say oh she's so cute when she aint. Most babies are really weird looking" It's the truth, she laughed and that was that.

As far as the topic, and lieing to live in society, no you really don't. Pretty much you have three options, two of which are immediate. One, get rid of extra cats and get a doctor that will give you the prescriptions you want. At least here in the states that isn't hard to do, I could name the doctor in my town that will give you whatever you want. They want your money. Your other option, say to hell with the rules and keep on breaking them, but don't live in fear.

The third, since you seem to have a special spot for cats, lobby to get the law changed. I am of the opinion that is a stupid law, you should be able to have as many cats as you want.

Editing this part here: Should have re read THEN posted. It seems you "need" the codeine for the same reason I did when I had the flu: to help me sleep better. Get off that habit quick. It's bad bad bad. AFter only a week of it I had trouble sleeping without it.

edit on 11/19/2010 by iamsupermanv2 because: (no reason given)

the cat owning people have lobbied hard but there are more dog owners than there are cat owners and they convinced the governemnt that they were discrimnated against because cat owners did not have rules imposed on them and did not have to register their cats blah blah so the governemnt thought it would be useful to impose these laws and collect the extra revenue and as there are more dog owners than cat owners the motion was voted on and carried etc and the only way to overturn it is to have more votes than the dog owners and as there are fewer cat owners... you can see how impossible that is

no I am not going to get rid of my cats for anyone - they will live with me till they die.

the codeine is not to help me sleep - it is to stabilise my breathing because if i did not take it i can cough and cough and choke and splutter and wheeze and cough till my lungs feel like i am coughing bits of them up and I can do that for 4 hours straight and nothign helps. I dont know why I am getting these coughing/breathing/choking fits. Sometimes I get one in the middle of the night but other times it is during the day. there is no pattern. I have been to an ear nose and throat specialist who tested me for allergies and declared I am allergic to a bunch of stuff that I am not allergic to at all and took my tonsils out hoping that would help. I still cough and choke and wheeze and cannot breathe and so the relief I get from the codeine is welcome.

I used to eat slabs and slabs of chocolate as that seemed to help but the chocolate was creating a different problem.

and the car? if i tell the truth they want to stick me with a bill of $800-00 for nothing and as I am on disability pension it matters - I just dont have $800-00 to spare for nothing. So I fibbed and no one will ever know but the point is - why should we have to lie because of so many rules and laws - we are over-governed and it is horrible

For every lie one speaks they have to concoct 10 different lies to cover it up. Lying is like putting yourself in trap. Just don't let people interfere in your life so that you don't feel the need to explain them about you. That is one of the things that can lead people to speak a lie. Of course there are many other reasons too.

Then there are some people who are pathological liars. It is like inviting trouble to trust them. One should be on guard while talking to them.

Originally posted by andy1033
reply to post by megabyte

 

I lived like that until 17, since then i just say things openly, like things like i do not fancy females, it does upset peopel, but why should i let them bother me.

Lying is something important to live in this society, but i do not do it, and you can see from my posts, i am very blunt, and i do just say it.

That's a good thing I guess.

reply to post by Tayesin


I see. It is too bad that our society really doesn't encourage on honesty, hence many people have lied since their youth and kinda get used to the idea that it is OK to lie (as most posts here show). It is OK to lie when seeking a job, it is OK to lie to avoid a punishment, it is OK to lie when forming a romance - this seems to be the message. Even it has been officially said that lying is not OK, this is also a lie where the practice shows the contrary. Everyone lies little white lies that are not harmful. But how can they judge harmfulness of their lies as they can only perceive the reality from their subjective viewpoint? If I see myself like this, of course it will be beneficial to lie when I cannot see the wider implications of my lies.

I agree with you that we should be as honest as we can. And I am sorry about your child. It is sad that this society teaches to lie trhough fantasy

And I gotta wonder, how do dishonest people know anything about the truth when they live in a lie?

-v

I believe lie's have become part of society unfortunately.

Are you the type of employee who always arrives on time?
Do you complete all your assignments?"
Sir or Ma'am did you know that you were speeding?
Do these jeans make me look fat?

Of course you know the answer if you want to keep your job, license, or spouse.

Oh yes, the state of society - lawmakers keeping inventing stupid laws, till you are sure to break one.

I mean, smoking weed i no biggie, even most us preseidents have admitted to it, but still i have to be cautious and lie about my habits so i don't get a fine.

reply to post by megabyte


As far as the cat thing goes, personally, I don't see the reason to have so many cats but if you want to I don't see why you shouldn't be allowed to. Just because one lobby beat you out once doesn't mean it will forever. Keep at it. It may be an uphill battle but get enough cat people together and it can happen. Or get enough people who don't like hypocritical laws. Either would work.

I just did a bit more of research on Codeine and coughing, and found quite a few studies that say codeine was no more effective than a placebo at suppressing cough. In each study though, they also say it is the best thing available, so it's a bit confusing. What I know from my experience is that it really didn't stop the coughing, just knocked me out so I slept through it. My roommate at the time came to me one morning and was like "man, you must be tired I heard you coughing all night while I was up writing this paper" I had no clue what he was talking about, but I felt as rested as a person with the flu could so I didn't care. Not saying it's not possible that it helps, as even the studies say it's the best, but my unscientific brain doesn't buy it.

You should not have to lie to get yourself healthy. You should get a new doctor. Keep looking until one takes you seriously.

Could all this coughing have anything to do with an allergy to the cats? You said they doctor said you have all these allergies that you don't...how do you know you don't?

Originally posted by iamsupermanv2
reply to post by megabyte

 

As far as the cat thing goes, personally, I don't see the reason to have so many cats but if you want to I don't see why you shouldn't be allowed to. Just because one lobby beat you out once doesn't mean it will forever. Keep at it. It may be an uphill battle but get enough cat people together and it can happen. Or get enough people who don't like hypocritical laws. Either would work.

I just did a bit more of research on Codeine and coughing, and found quite a few studies that say codeine was no more effective than a placebo at suppressing cough. In each study though, they also say it is the best thing available, so it's a bit confusing. What I know from my experience is that it really didn't stop the coughing, just knocked me out so I slept through it. My roommate at the time came to me one morning and was like "man, you must be tired I heard you coughing all night while I was up writing this paper" I had no clue what he was talking about, but I felt as rested as a person with the flu could so I didn't care. Not saying it's not possible that it helps, as even the studies say it's the best, but my unscientific brain doesn't buy it.

You should not have to lie to get yourself healthy. You should get a new doctor. Keep looking until one takes you seriously.

Could all this coughing have anything to do with an allergy to the cats? You said they doctor said you have all these allergies that you don't...how do you know you don't?

I explain that I have so many cats because i was a breeder in Hobart which has no cat laws and then I moved to melbourne which has cat limits and cat registrations etc.

the cats I have are the de sexed mother cats and I want to keep them till they die, but i have a very secure cat proof back yard and even the neighbours dont know i have cats because my cats never leave the back yard to annoy anyone or leave turds in anyone's vegie patch or childs sandbox

when the mother cats die then I will not be replacing them so i will be down to the legal limit of cats but there is no way I want to part with these mother cats- they deserve to have a good life with me

now the coughing.choking/ breathing fits are nothign like a cold or flu and i do not cough all night regardless etc, and the codeine does stop the coughing/breathing/choking fits and I can breathe normally again. for me it works

the nearest i can work out is that these started when I was given a tetanus shot after a car accident but doctors dont want to believe me

there is rather a lot about tetanus vaccines and reactions to them if you google so it could have been a bad vaccine or I am hyper sensitive to tetanus vaccine

the allergy you mention - to cats? yes the allergy tests did suggest i am allergic to cats but I had to be away form all cats for about 6 months and I got a choking/breathing/coughing fit every day whereas when I have my cats in my home it seems to make little difference so go figure, because i dont understand it. That is what I mean when I say i had the prick allergy tests done and it indicates I am allergic to stuff that I dont seem to have any reaction to. like tomatos - I am supposedly allergic to tomatos but it never brings on any reaction however I am not supposedly allergic to flour but often will start a coughing/choking/breathing fit after havign a piece of bread. I can go through an entire list of stuff that the prick test said I am allergic to and i dont have a single reaction to and a lot of other stuff that I am deffinitely not allergic to according to these tests and they do start me having a coughing/breathing.choking fit

this would seem to me that the allergy prick test gives false positives and negatives in some ppl