Muslim group plans Remembrance Sunday protest

Originally posted by stumason
There's peaceful protest and there is incitement to hatred and violence.

Who has done more to incite hatred and violence?

That is the real problem here.

Take a good long look around you, THINK for a while longer.

What is coming is not the responsibility of any human, it cannot be stopped, course changed or avoided.

Evil has consumed you and all of your brothers and sisters, corrupted you and your governments, your armies and most of all, your faiths and faithful.

Welcome to the beginning of the end, our earned and well reaped reward for our own bloody violence and failure to advance beyond the human animal.

Whether humanity can survive the dark days to come, depends entirely on the actions taken in the very near future to leave the evil path it has collectively chosen.

Consider yourselves warned.

Originally posted by stumason
I am pretty sure you could not stand in a street in Washington or New York and call for the deaths of Americans, violent Jihad and the overthrow of the Government.

Please show me a source stating that this is what the protesters did. In fact, please show me where I mentioned violence or government overthrow. Where did that come from?

At the very least, even if there right to protest is protected, they would eventually cause a civil disturbance as I am sure the locals would get rather uppity and cause a fuss.

If the locals get uppity and cause a fuss because of a peaceful protest, then that's their choice.That doesn't make the protesters guilty of anything. That's warped thinking akin to "The devil made me do it".

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


Actually, if the protest is designed to incite violence or negative reaction - which you could argue this one is - then the protestors are guilty of breaching the peace, and could be arrested as such (they could be arrested to prevent a breach of the peace). In this instance their actions are the cause, and the reaction is the symptom. Remove the cause.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Please show me a source stating that this is what the protesters did. In fact, please show me where I mentioned violence or government overthrow. Where did that come from?

If you've had any interest in these kinds of Muslim protest groups, you'd know they regulary show up with placards saying "Death to British Soldiers" (as in the OP..did you even read it?), "Sharia in the UK", "Death to Infidels" and other such nonsense. I shouldn't have to repeat what has been shown multiple times before, not only in this very thread but others like it. However, if you really insist on being difficult as well as lazy, I can drum up plenty of pics for your amusement.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
If the locals get uppity and cause a fuss because of a peaceful protest, then that's their choice.That doesn't make the protesters guilty of anything. That's warped thinking akin to "The devil made me do it".

In UK law, these protestors could be found guilty of a variety of offences, such as Breach of the Peace, Incitement to Riot, Incitement to Racial and Religious Hatred, Affray..etc etc..

The very same basic laws exist in the US as well. I would be most interested if you could provide me with any evidence that protests such as the ones we have over here would be even tolerated to allow happen, let alone grumble about afterwards.

For crying out loud, you guys got your knickers in a twist over a mosque, what would happen if these idiots marched into Time Square with slogans such as "Death to American Soldiers" or "Sharia in the US". I am sure a riot would erupt, therefore the protestors could be guilty of incitement.

Freedom of Speech does not and should not stretch to allow people to call for your death, because some idots out there will act on those calls, leading to a possible charge of Incitement to Murder to the person who made the call.

Originally posted by stumason
However, if you really insist on being difficult as well as lazy, I can drum up plenty of pics for your amusement.

That won't be necessary as I participated fully in a 27 page thread about it here and read ALL sources.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

I'm well aware of the MAC and what they do.

Look, it seems you've taken my opinion quite personally and as if it's some sort of hatred against the UK. I assure you, that's not the case. My position is one that supports freedoms. No need to make it personal.

The very same basic laws exist in the US as well. I would be most interested if you could provide me with any evidence that protests such as the ones we have over here would be even tolerated to allow happen, let alone grumble about afterwards.

You've no doubt heard of Fred Phelps, whose group protests are soldiers' funerals? I assure you, we have many protests here.

For crying out loud, you guys got your knickers in a twist over a mosque,

Some did. I did not.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


Everyone wants to protect the freedoms of those who want to commit such acts, what about the freedoms of the rest of us who want recognise those who served and those who served and died, without having the memory of those who died sullied.

O yes, my freedoms are worth less because I seek to remember those who fell with respect and dignity.

Originally posted by Freedom ERP
reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

 

Everyone wants to protect the freedoms of those who want to commit such acts, what about the freedoms of the rest of us who want recognise those who served and those who served and died, without having the memory of those who died sullied.

You do have the freedom to recognize those who served and died, and I fully support that. What you do by recognizing them is out of honor and respect. But that freedom doesn't include a guarantee that everyone else will respect your beliefs and traditions and defer to them.

The truth is, we all have rights. And they have to be equal for all, or they're meaningless. And protesting is one of our rights. As I've said, I don't know the laws in the UK and I don't mean to hold another country to standards that we obviously can't meet, ourselves. Sorry about that. But it's the ideal I think we should strive for. Where everyone has equal rights and we exercise them equally.

Unfortunately, sometimes, there will be conflicts of rights... we're going to step on each others' toes. Sometimes, people's freedoms are going to be at odds with each others, which is what I perceive that the UK has with this MAC case and what WE have with the Fred Phelps situation. That's just going to happen in a free society.

I'm really sorry if your experience on Remembrance Day sullied the memory of a loved one. But I honestly think that the people who really wanted to pay tribute that day to their loved ones - did so, whether there were 30 people protesting them or not. The day was not about Muslims, or poppies or symbols. It was about people showing their respect for the ones who serve and die for their country... but the media took this story of 30 people and made sure that everyone knew about it... Think about that.. Who really cares what these 30 people think or said or did??? People got more important things to do. Don't they?

I've got to say that to make such a huge deal over this incident of 30 protesters in London, 3 miles away from the moment of silence gathering is giving them EXACTLY what they want. I think people who got so upset about these 30 protesters kind of let themselves be baited. And I think people in general should take more responsibility for their own anger.

Anyway, my point is ... I don't think asking the government to infringe on someone's right to protest - to guarantee there won't be a conflict - is the answer.

O yes, my freedoms are worth less because I seek to remember those who fell with respect and dignity.

You're freedoms aren't worth less. But they aren't worth more, either.

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Now you know where their anger and hatred comes from, shame on you, all of you.

reply to post by Fractured.Facade


No-one said they don't have the right to be angry, you are confusing the issues. Many who have condemed these people who carried out this protest, including me do not agree with the allies being in Afganistan. Why don't you balance things out a bit and post pictures of Afghan civilians killed by the Taliban, or the Iraqi Kurds killed by Saddam? Or the Iraqi christians killed for not being muslim? Or the Israeli civilians killed by palestinians? There are two sides to the whole mess that is the middle east.

Shame on you, and all those who would sully rememberance day, for it is a day when everyone mentioned above (including those in the pictures you posted) can be remembered with a moment of silence.

reply to post by 3finjo


Indeed. Anyone would think it's only Muslims who have ever suffered. Like I have said before, how quick they are to forget the blood and swet shed for them in the Balkans saving them from genocide.

Utter emotionalist bollocks is what those pictures are.

reply to post by Fractured.Facade


This is not a place for unclear thinking. You must state exactly where you stand regarding desecrating important national events and death of people. Had These people had a silent protest holding placards that were not obnoxious it would havebeen one thing. Instead the spew investive. Was it the right Placeto do so? I say NO.

I did not support the governments. I feel sorry for the soldirs as most are just ordinary working people.

Of course decent people would disagree with the war but to expect people not to go into the army and live on the dole is ridiculous. Also didn't moslem die in WW2? I know some families lost. You are getting close to doing your own anti British baiting. If I am mistaken I appologise. If you are baiting people who took a fearsome pounding during WW2 then perhaps you should relocate to a Moslem country. Fundamentalist Islam will never defeat the british black or white.


PS Afghanistan is a new war. Go back and look towards the end of one of the JAMES Bond films with Timothy Dalton you will see Afghanistan tribesmens were portrayed as friends of the west. That wa not ficition the Taliban was a friend to the west (as was Bin Laden) towards the end of the cold war. Because they were all anti communist. I thought that these people were backward. For example how could you not educate children becasue they were girls?????

Originally posted by stumason
Anyone would think it's only Muslims who have ever suffered.

No one is forgetting the sacrifice that the soldiers have paid. In fact, the vast majority of people "support the troops", no matter where they are, who they're fighting, the reason for the fight or the country from which they hail. The troops receive undying support. NO ONE is claiming that only Muslims have suffered, either! That's ridiculous. It's just that some of us are trying to show the other side of the story in this otherwise one-sided thread. Remember, there are two sides to every story and the truth is usually somewhere in the middle.

Utter emotionalist bollocks is what those pictures are.

Please. I've seen enough emotional outrage and emotional patriotism in these threads against these protesters to last a lifetime. There is NO shortage of emotional bullocks from people who are turning themselves inside out over what these protesters think and do.

Originally posted by Fractured.Facade
Now you know where their anger and hatred comes from, shame on you, all of you.

Thanks for that relevant post mate, no-one here understands human emotions and nobody has seen emotive photographs like those before. Pfff

I could just as easily post hundreds of pictures of children and wives crying by soldiers’ graves or videos of families who have lost husbands and fathers, that being where the anger and hatred from the other side comes from.

They are just people, one person's pain is no different or no more valid than anyone else's, whether their dead loved one happened to be a "tool of war" or not is irrelevant.

reply to post by Soshh


If they hate us, why do they come to live in our countries then? I know I certainly wouldn't go and live in the country of a culture I despised, or that which killed my family. Anyone who does either has rocks in their head, or they have some other agenda.

IRM

reply to post by InfaRedMan


For jobs, education, money, the promise of a better life. Most Muslims who relocate to the Western world do so for these reasons. Some, however, like this MAC group are trying to change things. This is the way things work in the world. Some people go to other countries with the idea of changing them. It's how our country (the US) was formed. People from other countries moved here. We sent missionaries by the crapload to other countries to try to change them. We sent an army to Iraq and Afghanistan to try and change them. It's what people do, for their own reasons. It has happened since we were able to travel.

If you google "Why do Muslims want to move to "Western" countries?" you'll find the reasons.

Originally posted by stumason

Utter emotionalist bollocks is what those pictures are.

Of course, that is the whole point of remembrance day isn't it?

In your case you should appreciate the opportunity to take a brief glimpse at what motivates your enemies and Muslim invaders of your sacred British lands.

Originally posted by tiger5

This is not a place for unclear thinking. You must state exactly where you stand regarding desecrating important national events and death of people.

Did you read all of my posts in this thread, or only that one?

Where exactly has my thinking been unclear?