An odd trend occurring in the A&U forum

Honestly it would be more cruel to support their belief in a video you think is fake than to just be straightforward. Imo

reply to post by DrunkMonk


I think the problem is two sided.
1: Some of the silly threads posted that are so obviously not UFOs etc.
2: The skeptics. They should just post a civil response pointing out the obvious and then move on.

Chad & Zorgon

Its a trend the by the new Generation these days since the digital vids and cams are now in just about anything u can carry they tend to surf utube and alikes to catch something new.

The problem is that they are still a bit nieve and get tripped up by out of focus planes, birds and cgi nerds.

My son who is in his mid 20s has watched just about every doc looked at every picture regarding ufos, moon and mars anoms and anything else related you can poke a stick at, but he spends hours searching liveleak and utube to hopefully catch the big one first.

reply to post by backinblack



lol, how does you son expect to "catch the big one first" by watching liveleak & youtube???
Wouldn't that mean it's already been found???
I think you need to educate your son that the only way to be first is to get outside with a camera..

Mod Edit: Big Quote – Please Review This Link.

reply to post by backinblack


lol, how does you son expect to "catch the big one first" by watching liveleak & youtube???
Wouldn't that mean it's already been found???
I think you need to educate your son that the only way to be first is to get outside with a camera..

He does!

Next smart arse comment.....

Mod Edit: Big Quote – Please Review This Link.

Originally posted by Chadwickus

To me, I think it has to do with the fact that there is a new "breed" of UFO believer here on ATS, one that carries on like a pork chop when their video mystery gets solved, the disclaimer is borne out of fear of upsetting these types by basically saying, "look I'm on your side and I don't want to hurt your feelings but..."

Spare the rod, spoil the child? IMHO The truth needs no sugar coating to make it more palletable for those with less intestinal fortitude. There's no transgression against T&C by getting to the point and telling it how it is. This is not rudeness. It's forwardness without the desire to whittle away precious time on idol banter.

If the truth is that the current viral Youtube is a prosaic object or is weighted heavily toward a prosaic explanation, then the people who cannot accept this need to grow a pair. There should be no disclaimers, so long as everyone plays the ball and not the man.

The trend I see, not just on these forums but also in society at large is people reserving the right to feel offended, insulted, victimised or infuriated. It's almost a default response to any situation where the individual cannot offer a valid argument or solution of their own. Just get angry!.. disapprove!... that way people may not recognise that you have nothing worthwhile to contribute yourself.

To slightly digress... I did a little investigation of my own on the forum recently. An interesting thing I noted is that majority of the well known sceptics on this board have very small foe lists.. if any at all. On the other side of the coin, I noted that many of the well known 'believers' on this board have well populated foe lists. Though I hesitate to give my own impression of those results, what does that tell you about the mindset of these particular parties? Ask yourselves these questions. Who holds grudges and who does not? Who harbours negativity and who does not? Who perceives the other as the 'enemy' and who does not? How will this play out in threads?

I've already said more in this particular forum that I would like to.. so with that, I'm off to the other forums on this board. I find A&U far too depressing to post in for now.

IRM out!

reply to post by Chadwickus


Its not really a new breed, I use the phrase myself all the time and yes it is a way of taking the sharp edges off a negative view of a posters vid or idea or at least I do it for that reason. Its more a matter of decorum, there's no need to spit rage and bile in their face, since some people genuinely are new to it all and havent got the critical eye yet to filter the rubbish from the gold.

Im a believe and have been all my life for the 3 plus decades ive been alive, ever since I was a kid and first picked up my mums Adamski books and oggled the pics of saucers and glowing mother ships (yes Adamski is 99% a fraud but it was a foot in the door and as a kid I didnt know any better... although mum still puts alot of stock in him, but the last time she really read anything about the UFO field was back in the 60's when it was all space brothers and etc, heck it wasnt until 10 years ago she even acknowledged the possibilities of Greys and even now still thinks they might be something else).

But im also one of those believers that never takes anything on face value since as a field of interest its impossible to prove a bar of it outside of a landing filmed on live TV (and even that will have people screaming fake). Everything, even the greatest pieces of proof in the UFO field that could point to 'Yes UFO's are real' is still no where near the level of proof required to call them fact... its because of this that while Im a believer I keep my opinions at arms length and throw as critical an eye over the evidence as I can, and never claim something is 100% undeniable evidence... especially now days given the torrent of vids and fakes and extremely wild claims brought up by people who are either deliberately trolling or playing suckers for all they are worth.

To me the problem with a large part of the current crop of UFO believers is that they seem to believe to much, even when one event or theory contradicts another, you cant say 'Hmm you have a great point alien channeler number 4' then go 'Hey i like what you say alien contactie who has secret undeniable truth that they cant show just yet' the next, since so often what one claims as truth crashs head long into what the other one claims is the real truth creating a real mess... you cant have your cake and eat it too, although in this day and age people sure as hell try. You cant say every ones right since thats impossible, someone has to be wrong, even among the so called rights... but alot of hardcore over-believers do believe everything, and they seem unable to logically notice what that does to their own credibility, and get extremely hostile if this is brought up.

I usually wouldnt require having to drop a disclaimer like 'Im a believer also, but...' if we didnt have some people throwing the dis-info label around at any one that disagrees with them even in the slightest. Not that being called that worries me in the slightest i couldnt give a fig, but its being used now days as an opinion killer all the time, and its constant use makes me wonder just how paranoid so many of us here on these boards are, its a conspiracy site sure but their has to be a sane limit.

So for me its not really a trend, but a reaction to the real emerging trend, which appears to be a rapid influx of questionable videos and plain as day goofball 'theories' (Come on admit it some of the recent stuff makes some of even the wildest from a few years back seem almost believable)... ive only been here on ATS roughly 2 years (although I was a lurker for a good 6 months prior to that) but the level of discussion and what was posted is day and night in quality compared to what it was a year back... not for the better unfortunately.

Before there where debates and discussion and no one cried 'This is it, the final Proof!', now all we seem to have is arguments and threads turning into a 2 camp war within a page. The quality and shear quantity of supposed evidence hardly helps this either, there's almost a new piece of proof posted every day.

This might go down badly, but might I say alot of it could be an American thing?... its something ive sort of noticed with your political climate also, the divisions between left and right have widened by miles recently, its as if you have to be on one side or another and you can never give the other any respect or leeway since that somehow belittles your own stance and the stance of those on your side, there's no middle ground anymore and its taken on the air of a war of words where the only result anyone will be happy with is the complete destruction of the other.

I dont think i really said what i wanted to. Im a middle grounder I believe what i believe but I dont believe it fully, and will change it if shown things to make me change my belief. I do have a low tolerance for 'crayzie' though but I do my best not to blast people, or simply ignore what id call the 'Loopies'... at the most ill leave an opinion and leave it at that unless addressed directly.

I just wish we got back to civil discussions, not one sided circle jerks where any opposing point of view is slammed as a covert attempt to suppress the truth, since that never gets to the bottom of the truth ever... the problem is, is the believers or those who act extremely strongly about UFO's are the ones who for the most part who are doing this 'If your not with us your against us' mentality... which makes everyone middle or skeptic the enemy.

Its all rather sad really...

But hey at least we all have this recent NASA announcement comming to tide us over, hopefully that brings us together in our collective over optimism regardless of how or what we think it'll be... although it'll be a real poop storm afterward unfortunately I often feel when reading the A&U forum like im a kid in the middle of their two parents having a marital splitting argument, you cant get involved without getting in the line of fire... and when you do, "Im a Believer, but..."

Originally posted by InfaRedMan

The trend I see, not just on these forums but also in society at large is people reserving the right to feel offended, insulted, victimised or infuriated. It's almost a default response to any situation where the individual cannot offer a valid argument or solution of their own. Just get angry!.. disapprove!... that way people may not recognise that you have nothing worthwhile to contribute yourself.

This is a great observation and one I also share, although I must admit I have done that myself, unknowingly before (Not on ATS). Sometimes no matter how much you might feel that your right.... your still in reality, wrong... no need to feel ashamed every ones experienced it, or will. Every ones gotta own up to it as my brother puts it...

"They take offense at everything, but responsibility for nothing."

The pox of the current world.

reply to post by Chadwickus
Chad, maybe we've done too many tours of duty and experience is seeing through too much?

A lot of the recent aggro went unnoticed by me because I don't read the YT threads. Failure rate of 99% with 1% being interesting for the discussion or remain unresolved. I don't ignore YT threads, they just don't raise any interest.

The disclaimers could be an outcome of the youth on ATS? There are posts where the member says they're 14 so we have to allow for the possibility that a shy or awkward poster is still pretty young. Perhaps the members who have tantrums are part of that age-group? A couple of very thoughtful and intelligent members have surprised me when they mentioned their age so I'm not criticising a whole age-range.

Zorgon made an obvious point that I hadn't even considered...the You Tube posting style coming over here. Two or three sentences of condensed attitude lacking insight? That has to be part of the problem and explains why a measured reply gets the vitriol.

Other members in this thread have made far better points than these. I'm just posting to say forget about it. If anything good shows up on You Tube the world will know within hours. Things have changed in the A&U in recent months Chad, but it isn't worth getting bugged over.

Originally posted by zorgon
Well CHEER UP

We have a NEW Chinese Moon Mission to play with and they are starting off with old Clementine anomalies and playing coy. Seems there is some hope

Something to look forward to.

I hope Google Translate lifts its game before the pictures start getting analysed.

"It's not a golden dragon rice monkey! Its a rock"

reply to post by zorgon


Zorgon actually hit a lot of points I liked in this thread.

Problem is as well one harsh debunking of a person and it follows you around. I've had posters follow me from one thread to another and just automatically assume I'm there to be skeptical. So I think some of it is avoidance of that.

A lot of posters I've seen end up with this mystique about them where they are skeptical some of them time that everyone kind of looks at them a bit oddly. It's almost like you have to excuse the fact you don't believe someone, or post a list of threads where you've been supportive of someone's investigations/believed in someone before you can begin analysing.

I think the overall quality of a thread is aided when people stay on topic and don't analyse each other's past postings (unless they're *completely* relevant).

OP I think you are indeed reading too much into this.
Seems to me that people start posts with words like "I'm a believer but....." because they have seen a lot of "debunkers" jump straight into threads and claim "Chinese lanterns" "birds" "RC plane" or whatever, without appearing to consider that it may be something mysterious.
Stating that they are a "believer" at the start of the post is simply attempting to make it clear that they are not jumping to conclusions and have weighed up all the available evidence "objectively" before deciding whatever the object is, is an explainable event.

Thanks for all the replies guys, good to see I'm not the only one feeling these vibes round these parts.

So, is there a solution?

Originally posted by Chadwickus
So, is there a solution?

The Passage of Time...

Id say it'll shake down eventually its just a matter of keeping ones sanity and not disowning the forum to the point you feel like you will never come back (Like some seem to have done in recent weeks). Its been pretty busy when you think about it the last year, it'll get worse for a good couple of years the closer we get to 2012 and more people try and equate conspiracy X Y and Z with it for what ever reason, but more than hopefully once where all still sitting here in front of our PC's come 2013 and no real alien invasion or disclosure or end of the world scenario has played out we'll all scratch our heads shrug our shoulders and get back to a more balanced level of civility (unless we havent all eaten each other in a mad whirlwind of aggression before then ).

reply to post by Chadwickus


If it's a new trend to be polite in this forum....I don't see what the problem is?
You know, it's not a bad thing to have manners while debunking. Actually, I'm more opt to read a post that is polite while debunking than reading a post that starts to insult someone's intelligence. If you have to be rude in order to prove your point..then your point wasn't good to begin with. If you have a good point to make, then your point will stand for itself without the degrading technique. It's just a thought... No one takes a jerk seriously...

Click here for more information.

An Even Trend

Regardless of how someone may introduce or disclaim evidence presented in this forum, it doesn't change the fact that presenting it here explicitly means inviting ATSers to examine it and offer their opinions. People may not like what they hear, but if an opinion is on-topic and civil, it's as valid as any other.

It's always been that way, always will be.

I suspect some of the more timid introduction techniques alluded to in the OP may in fact be signs of concern on the part of some members that they're going to be pounced on and mercilessly abused for posting.

I can't say I blame them. There are good reasons why Springer posted this thread. There are also others like it from over the years (see the "sticky" threads in this forum for examples).

The whole point of ATS is to give people a place where they can talk about subjects they can't talk about anywhere else. It is impossible to estimate how much valuable information on the UFO phenomenon, for example, has been lost simply because people were afraid to say anything about it and suffer ostracism, humiliation and even unemployment as a consequence.

Such intimidation buries the truth and has absolutely no place anywhere on ATS. :shk:

So we enforce basic standards of civility in this forum, just as we do everywhere else on ATS. Doing so opens doors that might otherwise be closed, and encourages those who might otherwise fear reprisal to come forward with what they know.

That is absolutely vital to our community. Without it, ATS has nothing.

Hence all the reminders, again and again, about courtesy. Yet no matter how many times, in how many ways, or in how many places we do it, someone always seems to miss the memo or takes it upon themselves to try to poison the well.

They keep us busy, but it's worth the effort.

Ironically, the idea that being a skeptic means being a jerk has been thoroughly debunked.

We act accordingly.

reply to post by Majic


Good and fair points, as long as people understand that there are two sides to the coin.

I just think it's a worry when some believers have to pander to other less thick skinned believers so as not to offend or create an argument.

Sad Pander

reply to post by Chadwickus

No one needs to pander to anyone. As long as we're decent about it, we can say pretty much anything we want.

And with over 16,000 posts under my belt, odds are I probably have.






P.S. For whatever it's worth, I am a major fan of skepticism (not to be confused with cynicism, as it so often is) and recommend it for anyone who seeks to navigate the murky, turbulent waters of the unexplained and unknown. Being skeptical, at its heart, means simply accepting that anyone, including ourselves, can be wrong. By acknowledging that and becoming comfortable with uncertainty (i.e., not thinking we have to know everything), we can overcome many of the logical pitfalls that accompany false certainty.

Or I could be totally wrong about that. You decide.

reply to post by Chadwickus
Yoyo mofo, Hiya Chad, is there a solution? Probably not.

At least not without putting people through a sort of 'stereotype mould' or cookie cutter before they begin posting! Other members can't be encouraged to conform to anyone else's expectations in their posting styles. We've all got to be ourselves as much as we can within the T&Cs.

Some guys might start shy and grow in confidence as they hang around the boards. Most of do and the few guys who start strong are usually experienced forum posters or maybe even banned guys sneaking back...we know them.

When I started off, I was impressed and mildly intimidated by guys like you, Phage, Zorgon and a few others. You all seemed like the fountains of all knowledge with the ability to dissect posts. When members have the appearance of such authority, a lot of newer or less-informed guys are scared of looking foolish. Let's be honest, some members make foolish posts and some members will rub their noses in it! That's gonna scare some types of personality...

Possibly the poster who's opening lines are actually appeasing ('please be nice to me!?') a section of members will toughen up (smarten up?) and realise that none of us are always right? It doesn't take long to realise that the guys sitting at the 'high table' are just flesh and blood people sitting behind screens like the rest of us. That's possibly when the appeasing ('don't hurt me!?') stops and the true opinions and thoughts begin to come across...