Mysterious Missile Launch Over California - 11/8/2010

reply to post by backinblack


tommyjo - that's a link to a jpg from orbit of the adriatic sea between italy and greece - did i miss the context

of this picture post? why did you link this?

BTW folks i emailed the catalina chamber of commerce and asked them if any

of their 5 webcams caught anything like the contrail on november 8 -and the answer was...

NOPE!

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We have asked around and checked various web cams and nothing was noted in that direction at that time. It would have been a highlight as you mentioned!


P.O. Box 217
#1 Green Pier
Avalon, CA 90704
310.510.1520 Voice
310.510.7606 Fax
"Catalina Chamber of Commerce" on Facebook and Twitter
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www.CatalinaChamber.com

reply to post by operation mindcrime


What about the issue of Flight Safety? Where is the NOTAM?. How would they know that the airspace at the launch site is officially clear? The crew of UPS902 MD-11 transiting the area would have reported such a launch? AIS would have tracked such vessels in the area. Someone by now would have put two and two together in the monitored movements of such a launch vessel.

www.aislive.com...

TJ

Originally posted by JimOberg

Originally posted by tommyjo
Edited footage fooled a lot of people. Consider the fact that the 'light/burner' sequence was slowed down for effect? Oh look a burner they cry! Doug Richardson of Jane's has since retracted his initial assessment after seeing the later footage. He was fooled by the persistent contrail footage.

TJ, can you please share a link on that statement?

See post from Mercurius on the following.

forum.keypublishing.com...

Jane's website has a very expensive subscription. Mercurious has highlighted the following.

"The Jane’s account of the event has now gone up online on the Jane’s Missiles & Rockets website, and they are accepting the airliner-contrail explanation."

TJ

Originally posted by drphilxr
reply to post by backinblack

 

tommyjo - that's a link to a jpg from orbit of the adriatic sea between italy and greece - did i miss the context

of this picture post? why did you link this?

I didn't link that. It was backinblack.

TJ

Originally posted by commonsense2010
Airliners do not leave super long corkscrew contrails with a flame at the top.

It's the corkscrew effect that I can't get my head round either. The chopper pilot also mentions he saw the corkscrew movement, so it's really down to him isn't it? I don't think there is much in the way of edit either, at the head of the trail there is shading and light, much as you would see at that time of day in a normal contrail. I don't see how any light at the very tip of the trail could be from the sun, even the 'plane heading in the opposite direction is mostly in shade with little glint from the sun on it. It's down to the chopper pilots veracity as to what he was seeing, and it's hard to see him staking a professional reputation on an ordinary contrail. Hard to call on, but so far, to me, the the pilot's story is the most likely event.

reply to post by smurfy


It was never the helicopter PILOT making these comments!!! This has been told over and over again...it was the cameraman. The actual pilot has been (very wisely, in order to keep his job) NOT going against the cameraman's "story."

AND, that is NOT a "corkscrew" effect, it is just the way the contrail happened to billow, as and after it formed.

Jim Oberg (iirc) pointed out that missiles don't "rotate" around their longitudinal axis anyway...however IF the "billowing" confuses you, think about how high-bypass jet engines provide their thrust, and what the airflow is doing, as it exits the big fan that provides the propulsive force.

Research it. The column of (horizontal) air that exits the fan shroud has some rotation imparted to it, FROM the fan itself.

That cooler "tube" or column of air envelopes and surrounds the much hotter central exhaust gases...this is why high-bypass fanjets make such big contrails, in the first place. The rotation effect is obvious, once you understand the process.....

reply to post by weedwhacker

It was the video man in his capacity I was referring to of course but I leave my post as is. Still, I assume the chopper pilot had vision of the spectacle also, and presumably a Gub as well. Again do not tell me to research, I don't tell you that, even if needed! so have some manners. I know that missiles () are not intended to corkscrew, it was the videoman who made the comment...take it up with him.

reply to post by backinblack


Hasn't this been covered several times within this thread? Of course the contrail is going to be visible to the naked eye at that distance. Why wouldn't it be? The optics used by Gil Leyvas will also be able to zoom into the head of the contrail as he did on the 8th November. He was using a 2x extender on his camera although that range he was unable to zoom right into the tip and fill the frame.

The contrail was imaged by satellite. You can see how large this persistent contrail was and roughly work out the distances.



From

www.space.com...



"At Langley Research Center, Minnis and his colleague Doug Spangenberg analysed a sequence of infrared images of the area collected between 5pm and 6.45pm on Monday by a geostationary operational environmental satellite.

"At 5.30pm, suddenly there is contrail extending horizontally from the left side of the image ... that bends toward the north-east, pointing directly at Catalina Island," said Minnis.

The contrail had to have started 15 to 45 minutes earlier and become quite wide to be visible to the satellite, he said.

Minnis accounted in his analysis for earlier and later contrails, conditions that would cause a contrail to persist, movement of the contrail, and nearby clouds."

From

www.guardian.co.uk...

Patrick Minnis has covered the event in the following.

spacefellowship.com...

Contrails can be hundreds of miles long. See images and links.

earthobservatory.nasa.gov...

veimages.gsfc.nasa.gov...

From

visibleearth.nasa.gov...

veimages.gsfc.nasa.gov...

From

visibleearth.nasa.gov...

TJ

reply to post by smurfy


The cameraman claimed he witnessed a similar event on 4th November. The question arises did he see UPS902 a McDonnell Douglas MD-11 on the same route and times as the 8th November?

See my post

www.abovetopsecret.com...

TJ

Originally posted by weedwhacker
Research it. The column of (horizontal) air that exits the fan shroud has some rotation imparted to it, FROM the fan itself.

I suppose that may be true, however I thought the dominant cause of rotation was the vortices made by the aircraft, particularly the wingtips.

Scientific American mentions contrail rotation and they mention the wingtip vortices but they don't mention the rotation imparted from the fan itself, not that it means the fan doesn't impart rotation, I'm sure it does, but I always thought the wingtip vortices overshadowed the effect from the fan rotation. I tried to research it but this scientific American article is an example of what I came up with regarding the rotation and the fan rotation isn't mentioned as a cause (nor is it ruled out):

www.scientificamerican.com...

The mixing gases contained in the contrail rotate with respect to the ambient air. These regions of rotating flow are called vortices. (Any sharp surface, such as the tip of a wing, can cause vortical flow in its wake if it is sufficiently large or the flow is sufficiently fast.) On occasion, these trailing vortices may interact with one another.

In one well-known example of this fact, the Crow Instability causes the vortices to develop symmetric sinusoidal oscillations and eventually to merge and form vortex rings behind the jet.

Which gives me an excuse to post one of my favorite videos on a NASA experiment to see the effect of a wingtip vortex:

NASA Airliner Wing Vortice Tests

There's a lot of rotation going on there, but I doubt any of it is from the rotation of the fan, though I could be wrong.

reply to post by Arbitrageur


Yes.

Thank you. Vortices too, but if I keep posting logical explanations, sometimes they get ignored.

Thing is, every contrail reacts differently, and the result, and persistence, (or not) and eventual shape (if it lingers) will vary greatly. Contrail to contrail, altitude to altitude, time to time, hour by hour...etc, etc.

Depends on so many variables. .......

Toss in different angles of lighting, angles of view (POV)....and this means that any one, or two interpretations can turn into thisi feeding frenzy of nonsense, as we've seen for this last...what? Week and a half??

reply to post by weedwhacker
Yes a lot of contrails look different.

After I posted that I had a thought...do the engines all rotate the same direction? Or do the engines rotate in opposite directions on opposite wings? If they all rotate in the same direction, then we'd have a way to tell if the spiraling contrails were caused by fan rotation or wingtip vortices, but if they rotate in opposite directions on opposite wings, that doesn't help identify the source of the rotation.

I was pleased to see Jane's revised their assessment to the more logical contrail explanation. I was really surprised when Jane's editor initially thought it was a rocket launch because I've always thought Jane's was a decent source.

reply to post by tommyjo


Strange you link to a weather site that coordinated the data and came up with the assumption this was NOT flight 902..They say it was AWE808

"Later, while viewing some blogs, I found that the contrail corresponded remarkably well with flight AWE808, which flew from Hawaii to Phoenix; it showed the change in course to the northeast at the same location, further confirming my conclusion."

www.space.com...

So they are saying this contrail visible on satellite matches a plane that flew over 30 minutes before this other trail was filmed....

I find it odd that everyone managed to make all the data fit flight 808 then suddenly altered it all to fit flight 902.

Maybe as time goes by and becomes increasingly more aware,,and on such a global input of ideas from every people, the conscienceness of that great dragon is moved,, easily swayed in a direction of ,smoke or reality,, and the battle still is on going with only tiny glimmers here and there of a long forgotten feeling, not felt in a long while but greedly held onto
by those who do understand the glimmer,
That yes we are mortal, and yes # happens,
But it can't be time yet, screams the Dragon, and bound he is no more.

over & over again, believers to airplane have forgotten about "miserable" glowing point btw, Phage leaved our discussion?

Originally posted by SarK0Y
over & over again, believers to airplane have forgotten about "miserable" glowing point

Are you talking about the dim red glow that briefly appears?

If so, I haven't forgotten it, I wondered if it might be some exhaust the first time I saw the video. But I watched it some more and decided it's not rocket exhaust based on several factors:

1. It's too intermittent. Rocket exhaust would be steadier. On the other hand, intermittent glare is consistent with a reflection.
2. The red color and low intensity don't seem right for a rocket exhaust. However the red color is a match for reflected sunlight at sunset.

And no, I don't think rockets reflect sunlight the same way airplanes do. Someone proposed that but that makes no sense to me.

Did someone say "rockets red glare" no way,, lol

reply to post by Arbitrageur


after sunlight reflecting, here: www.abovetopsecret.com...
after color fluctuations of incandescent point, here: www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by Arbitrageur

Originally posted by SarK0Y
over & over again, believers to airplane have forgotten about "miserable" glowing point

Are you talking about the dim red glow that briefly appears?

If so, I haven't forgotten it, I wondered if it might be some exhaust the first time I saw the video. But I watched it some more and decided it's not rocket exhaust based on several factors:

1. It's too intermittent. Rocket exhaust would be steadier. On the other hand, intermittent glare is consistent with a reflection.
2. The red color and low intensity don't seem right for a rocket exhaust. However the red color is a match for reflected sunlight at sunset.

And no, I don't think rockets reflect sunlight the same way airplanes do. Someone proposed that but that makes no sense to me.

I see where you are coming from, although the low light seen is fairly constant, but at one [stage] it gets to be almost white, perhaps it could be in a stage situation, I'm not sure how many stages there are, (if a missile) for the sake of argument say three stages, and this could be the second one. On the fun side how many times is it a missile has been launched at a significant moment in Obama's travels, the Norway er um, spiral...corkscrew was one, this may be another, are there any more? There is also the strange news announcement today/yesterday that NATO have invited Russia to join with NATO in missile defence, so against whom? and it's not really news at all. Russia is already building compatible radar defenses for some years with the same almost off the shelf SSPAR system already in use, certainly in RAF Fylingdales, Lekhtusi Voronezh, Alaska and most likely area 51 and elsewhere, see this thread,

www.abovetopsecret.com...

So some money has already been spent, that's interesting in itself.