Freemasonry, secret or not?

reply to post by TheLoneArcher


exactly.

And how do you keep an idiot in suspense?

reply to post by Dr Cosma


Oh, ooooooooooo, I know this one, but I will tell you next week.

reply to post by TheLoneArcher


lol

exactly.

reply to post by Dr Cosma


You see, although we are on different sides of the fence, there is no reason why we cannot have a little light banter. I am sure that I will never convince you that we are not bad people, for the most as I am sure there are bad apples everywhere to give organisations a bad name, and that you will never convice me that I am a dishonest secretive scheming turd. You have your life and I have mine, I am sure that we are both happy with the hand we have in front of us.

Still, if you would like to continue that debate, please feel free to continue. If not I wish you a great weekend.

Originally posted by TheLoneArcher
reply to post by Dr Cosma

 

You see, although we are on different sides of the fence, there is no reason why we cannot have a little light banter. I am sure that I will never convince you that we are not bad people, for the most as I am sure there are bad apples everywhere to give organisations a bad name, and that you will never convice me that I am a dishonest secretive scheming turd. You have your life and I have mine, I am sure that we are both happy with the hand we have in front of us.

Still, if you would like to continue that debate, please feel free to continue. If not I wish you a great weekend.

Well thank you for your kindness and I assure you, I give it back.
May you also have a nice weekend

Yes of cos we can have a banter, we are still men.

And no, like I said to network dude, I dont think you are a demon or a bad person.

Who am I to say you are a bad person, I dont know you.

I always speak in general terms, always.

I dont believe that USA should be in Iraq, but do I believe the men and women who are fighting for their country are bad persons, no, definitley not.

I speak of your organization.

Look when I was younger, I too was a part of something which had an ideology.
A gang.
Did I have physical trouble because I upheld what we believed in, yes I did.

Now do I look back and think, what the hell, yes I do.

Can I convice one of the young padwas that the gangs ideology is not good?
Probably not.

At Present Freemasons holds the false Promise,what ever their agenda is,they do not have True Divine Purpose,they are so obsessive with their own power they are been illusioned and kept their fellow Mason in illusion to,
Their is no God "aham brahmasmi" I am God ,Mason keep individual believing in GOD which Outdated Theory as Humanity is awakened to its Own Divine Awareness,How long mason wants to Do this its Boring Guys please Update your Awareness matrix
What Ever rite you are either York Rite, Scottish Rite, Shriners, Rosicrucians, Theosophists etc?.
Freemasons are Outdated Group,We should follow our own Divine Awareness we dont need World Govt or Freemason to feed us give shelter we can have our Own shelter,food and Divine Group which can manage with out Money or any kind of rule Upgraded Humanity Divine Matrix.

Originally posted by digby888
reply to post by TheLoneArcher

you should read morals and dogma

by albart pike

I never understood the fascination with Pike. Pike, from all appearances, was an agent who helped neuter and destroy Masonry. When I read his work, it makes me wonder how Masonry fell so fast. I guess with people like Pike at the helm, trying to fit everything into his Kabballah mentality, it makes sense that it would fall.

Brothers Hall and Frank Higgins, imo, are a much better and sane read.

reply to post by TheLoneArcher


Ok to get back on topic again.

A freemson who's actually a templar, told me he believes jesus was just a man.
He also told me he does not believe in the after life.
He also, believes in satan.

What do you think that meens?

I would like to hear your view on that.

reply to post by Dr Cosma


Wow. He actually said that?
Humm, well, not belonging to an organised religion I do not believe God to be that of any of those. I believe that God exists in everything, that creation itself is God and vice versa. Yes I believe in divine creation, although I could never even begin to understand how and why. Good and evil however, reside in all of us. The devil is the manifestation of our own evil deeds. The thing about FM is that we simply insist that the candidate believes in divine creation.

Does this answer you?

reply to post by TheLoneArcher


In a way. It answers what you believe in.
This mason that told me has been in the craft for a very long time, although I dont know his rank.
He doesnt say much.
Actually thats all he's told me. The reason why it was profound to me, to hear that, was because of the timing.
Someone very dear, very near, to both of us, passed away. On the day of the funeral, that is what he told me.
He said he does not believe in the afterlife, he said when you die, thats it, there is nothing.
At a christening, the priest asked "do you renounce satan"
We were standing at the back, he looked at me and said "I dont".
On another ocasion he told me he believed jesus was just a man.

What do I think about this?
Im not an expert on anything so this is my opinion;

The Bible says, Jesus was the son of God - this mason said he was just a man
The Bible says, there is an afterlife - this mason said he does not believe in the afterlife
The Bible says, satan is Gods enemy - this mason said he does not renounce satan

This all to me is like reverse psychology
Could the very big secret is that they dont believe in anything, God or the afterlife?
Could it be just a tool to control the population?
Could they believe that the human being is God and satan?
And there is no divine judgement?

Very possibly.

It's very easy to look at it that way, a local priest might believe the whole Bible to be true.
But way up in the vatican, does 'Darth Ratzinger' (a bit of humour) believe this also, or is he part of the circus?

These are my thoughts.

Originally posted by Dr Cosma
Ok to get back on topic again.

A freemson who's actually a templar, told me he believes jesus was just a man.
He also told me he does not believe in the after life.
He also, believes in satan.

Sounds like he's confused. How can he believe in satan but not an afterlife without contradicting himself?

What do you think that meens?

Masonic fraternities don't dictate to members what to believe, so what he personally believes is his own business. But like I said, if that's really what he told you, it seems contradictory to me, regradless if he's really a Mason or Templar.

reply to post by Masonic Light


Did you just read that post or havent you read the next one where I explain possibly he believes that the human being is God or satan.
Basically a person will choose his path, without the consequence of divine judgement.
Satan can be seen as the dark side of the self.
That is my interpretation.
And no, he is not confused. Like I said, this person has been a member for a very long time.
So one can assume that he could possibly be a high ranking member.

Anyways those are my opinions on what he said.

Originally posted by Dr Cosma

You know what a real man is?

One who holds no secrets.....Today, I feel great in knowing that I am wise, for I keep no secrets.

Since you seem to really enjoy Bible quotes:

A talebearer revealeth secrets: but he that is of a faithful spirit concealeth the matter. (Proverbs 11:13)

He that goeth about as a talebearer revealeth secrets: therefore meddle not with him that flattereth with his lips. (Proverbs 20:19)

Debate thy cause with thy neighbour himself; and discover not a secret to another. (Proverbs 25:9)

Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began. (Romans 16:25)

A prudent man concealeth knowledge: but the heart of fools proclaimeth foolishness. (Proverbs 12:23)

It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter. (Proverbs 25:2)

Originally posted by Dr Cosma

Did you just read that post or havent you read the next one where I explain possibly he believes that the human being is God or satan.

That's fine, but is inconsistent with Masonic teachings.

Basically a person will choose his path, without the consequence of divine judgement.

Many hold to this ideology, which is called humanism. However, again, it is inconsistent with Masonic teaching.

Satan can be seen as the dark side of the self.

Yes. I don't believe in the literal existence of satan either. However, what believes about satan has nothing to do with Masonic membership. On the other hand, belief in God and the immortality of the soul *are* requirements.

And no, he is not confused.

He is confused if he thinks that atheistic views are compatible with Freemasonry and Templary.

reply to post by Masonic Light


And the your point is to what?
That post was my opinion which I am entitled to.
Dont take that out of context.
What are we talking about here, that I believe what that mason said could be intrepeted as they dont believe in divine judgement, no God, its all bs, or that I believe I am a real man, lol?
Please do me a favour and join in if you know what youre talking about.
Which from my point of view, you are confused.

reply to post by Dr Cosma


please tell me you aren't basing all your thought of masonry on one person's words?

I know of a mason who had a change of heart on his belief in God and subsequently left the craft because of it. He had enough honor to know that if he didn't still follow the precepts of masonry then he should not continue to purport himself as one who did.

I am not trying to get you started again, just asking.

Originally posted by Dr Cosma
And the your point is to what?
That post was my opinion which I am entitled to.
Dont take that out of context.
What are we talking about here, that I believe what that mason said could be intrepeted as they dont believe in divine judgement, no God, its all bs, or that I believe I am a real man, lol?
Please do me a favour and join in if you know what youre talking about.
Which from my point of view, you are confused.

I think I answered your comments. Of course, I didn't expect you to be able to answer mine.

Originally posted by Dr Cosma
The Bible says, Jesus was the son of God - this mason said he was just a man
The Bible says, there is an afterlife - this mason said he does not believe in the afterlife
The Bible says, satan is Gods enemy - this mason said he does not renounce satan

I do not believe in the Divinity of Christ nor do I believe in Satan (although I do believe in an afterlife). Their is no prerequisite of taking the Bible literally to become a Mason. One should however adhere to its lessons of morality, brotherly love and charity.

reply to post by Dr Cosma


Rubbish?? I don't know??

Look, you may get somewhere with people you interact with in life with put downs like that little lad, but it don't work for people that have a brain and think for themselves....I read every post my little love.....and a put down in response to a valid question only tells me your argument is weak....

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus


If you don't believe in the divinity of Christ Sir, then pray tell me how you reconcile original sin, and the requirement that all man must die, and never be redeemed unless the ultimate price be recompensed for that event??

If Christ didn't come, and He wasn't divine, then how is that sin paid for?? A mere mortal man couldn't pay it....So, is it still unpaid? And if so, then we have no hope for redemption, correct?