How far is to far to you on race issues?

Well in South Africa most white people believe they are being discriminated against (reverse racism or reverse Apartheid).
Tensions are building up between racial groups here and it is like a volcano waiting to explode.
The thing is people from different countries don’t understand that white people are a minority group here and after the fall of Apartheid a lot of white folks had to make way for the previously disadvantaged black folks. However, like you said…how far is too far?

White people struggle to get jobs because companies have to have a certain amount of black people in the company. Thus if you are white the chances of you getting a job are slim even of you are qualified for the position. The government is struggling to deliver simple services because of this. Unqualified black people were thrown into all sectors and the result was mismanagement.

Though, black people will always use response that now white people know what is was like in the Apartheid years, ect. Just doesn’t work that way…you can’t justify hate against another race. It’s like saying,’ an eye for an eye’. U don’t solve the problem, you just keep feeding the fire.

Thought the dream was a non-racial South Africa yet nothing has changed, just the roles have changed.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying all black people think like this. I think the majority, just like the majority of whites, want peace and happy lives without any of this bs but the people in power will always play the racial card when their credibility is under attack thus only contributing to the tension.

Anyway

White folks,youth, here feel pissed off because their constantly being portrayed as war criminals and racists because of something that happened in a time some of them weren't in even born. They don't have much to be proud of when it's being striped from them.

i didn't read whole thread, so sorry if this is a repeat.

i believe that as far as america goes it is mostly a matter of minority and majority.
blacks are a minority, so it's easier to get away with something like black ent. tv., or strictly black schools.
whites being the majority, it's basically just politically incorrect to have a similar thing.
it would cause an uproar to have a 'white history month'.
i'm white myself, and don't mean this in any sort of racist way, it's just how things have been for quite a while.

White people just do not seem to realise that most of the celebrations that we see are of white people in the west. The entire celebratory system is set to serve the majority. If the majority is white well fine.

What rankles me is a certain kind of deeply obnoxious and thinly veiled racism that some seem to try and hide behind. Fact is most racists are cowards. Most people manage to celebrate without being racist. Some racists try to stir up trouble by claiming one group can do things thatanother cannot.

Knowing history is very important for example the black presence in certain European countries present since Roman times I am not talking about slaves neither.

In these dark times we need to celebrate as much as possible!

the whole thing about south africa is a prime example why the world and what man knows as himself will either extinguish/ be propelled to a future of sterility and whiteness; or accept chaos and view degeneration as a process that is as beautifull as a leper or "insert beautiful noun".

if SA does not accept that its body has lost an eye and is not willing to loose another then it will blindly with one eye lead itself in no direction.

i will say racism has gone too far when it is viewed as clean; and dirty for a person who is not racist: for when this happens you can expect not to know of existence.

but i will say a lack of racism is going to far; if you do not value what another person has ordained as a difference between you and that person to the point of your own self annihilation.

reply to post by SlovenlyGhost


Well I know that a lot of highly educated black people struggled to get work during appartheid. Most just lef t or became beaten down. So what did you make of tghe OP?

The one entitled "How far is too far to you on race issues"?

reply to post by SlovenlyGhost


Gee, I wonder if that has anything to do with this.




















It's not that black people in SA hate white people; it's that black people hate THE white people in SA. Because the white people in SA are, for the most part, a bunch of greedy sociopaths.

"I can't believe they just spat blood in my eye after I stabbed them in the chest, those monsters!!!11!!1!"

"I can't believe the dog bit me after I slaughtered its puppies in front of her!!!11!1!"

"I can't believe they flew a plane into the Trade Center after we trampled over their supply lines and publicly insulted their culture whilst touting our own" (Sorry, did that one hit too close to home because government propaganda told you they were terrorists? Shame.)

Seriously, this is why I moved away from the States. Because too many Americans are beyond thick and complacent (in all of their definitions) and it has turned the place into just as much of a time bomb as SA is.

Philosophically, yes -- the racism will never end if this continues forever... however, you can't expect 50 million people to just Gandhi it up and drop all of this hate that the white people created for them.

The only thing keeping these white people in SA anyways is that they have estates worth $20 million that they paid the black people $0.12 a week to build for them. Now that there is a minimum wage, and the black people can afford food to have the energy to fight for themselves, the white people "just want to be friends!"! How convenient!

I am ashamed to be Caucasian every time some ignorant white guys brings up anti-white racism in SA as if it's the black populations (you know, the people whose country was hijacked and whose people were raped of their freedom for lazy white folks' corporate interest) responsibility to put an end to it. I hate to be Captain Hindsight here... but maybe they should have thought about that in the first place? If these white people used some perspective thinking before this all erupted, this would be a non-issue.

The SA legal system is pathetic, and the Black people will have no justice for their oppression. We cannot blame them for seeking it themselves. They are clearly sending them a message: "You had your fun, now get out", and they were practically begging for it.

Wow, from this thread you'd think the world started 200 years ago.

This "back and forthing" of racial prejudice has been going on for millenia. No one race can say it's always had altruistic tendencies through the ages. And frankly it hasn't just been white vs black. It's been black vs black, white vs white, asians vs asians, etc..

So this whole Pride thing seems to be a bit silly and backward-thinking if you consider the history of the human race and anyone spouting 'Pride' is just being antagonistic and not worth talking to.

I think the only race war that would have been acceptable is homo erectus vs neanderthals.. survival of the fittest..

reply to post by juniperberry


I absolutely agree with you.

The only thing worse than intolerance and bigotry on these issues, are people somehow attempting to justify, rationalise or excuse one set of intolerance and bigotry over another.

I find it pathetic, and I think that people who use these tactics need to take a long, hard look at themselves in the mirror.

I bet the reflection won't be pretty.

reply to post by SlovenlyGhost



Well the problems of south Africa basically arise from capital flight. Human capital flight has occured as has financial capital flight. Here is a link to the capital flight but just google capital flight for more info.

www.tips.org.za...

Originally posted by Sherlock holmes

None of us have any choice over what race we are, so why on earth would we be ''proud'' of an accident of birth ?

So I guess a women shouldn’t be proud of her looks? Or anyone proud of their intelligence? Or how about being human, verses being an animal? Or even a foreigner!!
I say no matter how little control you have over it, if something is good, then you are right to attach value to it (and therefore be proud of it!).

Personally I don’t really have a problem with anti-racism, providing it doesn’t interfere with keeping foreign people out of the country. (And of course making sure those who are here, do indeed contribute more than they take-steal from our society -general economic, progress).

reply to post by Advantage


Your Grandfather was a VERY wise man.

I really, honestly felt that race was a dieing issue in the Western world. When I witnessed Obama getting elected I saw it as a reflection of a trend in American society that has all manner of peoples moving out of their stereotyped roles in society and business and finding success and acceptance in new arenas. This trend emerged slowly but has been growing consistently for several decades now and is really changing demographics and social tensions in a detectable way in my view.

I think it's time for everyone to drop the race issue as a public face. If we continue to have this African American group and that Latino group and those guys in the Asian American group, what purpose does it really serve?

It continues the segregation of our nations.

How does one really expect whites to react when they shift from being told to share to being told to accept oppressive treatment? It's hypocritical to say that you are fighting racism and in the same breath say you can't have what I have because you are white.

The only way to leave this mess behind is to accept a few things..

First, if you want equality you have to accept equality. (duh eh?)

Second, there will always be someone that finds it suitable to blame their issues with you on your race. If it happens, it isn't a reflection on everyone of that creed. If a black guy is slurred by a white guy (or vice versa) and he proclaims that whitey is racist because of that, isn't he equally as ignorant for applying one mans actions to an entire race? Isn't that one of the mechanisms that keeps us all at odds????

I really wish we could, as a nation (or world), have one of those uncomfortable moments where we turn to each other, all feeling like idiots and say.. "hehe, hey man, I was just joking".

If it was as simple as personal disagreements we would be doing that now.

I don't know what the greater equivalent of that is, but we need to find it and say it. We need to just get over the whole thing, in a big way.

Race is something that people shouldn't be proud of. People should be proud of who they are and not necessarily of their ethnicity or whatever fictional reasons they create. The people that act like they are superior to everyone else because they're white or Mexican or they're smarter than everyone else because they're Asians are the worst. They should just accept that certain races have done certain things... but for the most part people on an individual level are equal. I mean even with these racial stereotypes you can't take them too far- there are smart black people, there are strong white men, and there are weak black men, and there are stupid Asians. So these stereotypes aren't necessarily 100% fool-proof, and because of that people shouldn't have racial pride at all. It's not okay for blacks to do it and it's not okay for whites to do it either. People can be proud of their culture and what they do but not like these other things... culture is kind of separate from race but that's just my opinion.

reply to post by Frankidealist35



Well the chinese are supposed to be the most racist people on the planet and certainly are proud of what they have achieved. Naturally this has major implications for the so called east/ west divide.

It goes too far when they are constantly telling me that I should feel ashamed because some cotton growing white joe that has no family ties to me had kept some slaves some 100+ years ago, and that I should bow down and kiss their A$$ cause of it. Oh and how they can call me all kinds of racial slurs like gringo and cracker whitey, etc, but demand my respect, Well to that I have a big fat middle finger for them. I rebuke it all! KISS MY A$$!

reply to post by ldyserenity


Well the in society that you made indirect reference to most whites benefited directly from racism as they received unearned benefit simply by being white. you need to ask when the majority stopped being racist and how you would feel if I got a better job than you simply because of my skin colour!

No I won't kiss any part of you

I choose the company that i keep. I have friends in all walks of life. I'm proud that i can support my family. I'm proud that i take care of my children. Racist have no hold on my life. If i dis-like someone it is because they done me wrong.No matter what color. I can't stand more people in my own race than any other. I'm proud of what i have become. Skin color had nothing to do with it.

reply to post by tiger5


Well obviously I am not saying all of them do it, but I worked with a majority of people that did do just exactly that to me, and told them in no uncertain terms what I wrote there and I gave them the finger and walked out of that job, if you're jumping on the defensive, then you obviously think that because some plantation owning whitey had a farm of slaves back in the day, that I owe my life to you, or you like to use those negative terms, so well if the shoe fits, well you wear it, but don't try to veil your obvious hatred, also a few were nice to me at the same job and never treated me like that, and they were told before I left exactly what I was going to do and say to the remaning staff there... And unemployment was a nice sum I might add after all I'd worked at $10.50/hr(paid less than the majority of them, and I was the only white worker in the building I might add) and for five years there so I was laughing all the way to the bank meanwhile the pot smokers and the abusers(it was a residential living for the mentally disabled) got turned in by me, and all of the nasty ones got fired, and that is how they deserved to be treated.
Apparently you are on the side of racism, me I would like to say that if you are, then please find a way out of this country there are far too many of the racist mentality. That's what my point is. Not to literally kiss my A$$. Find a place where you can all get together and live and say all the nasty, demeaning things you want to say about our color amongst yourselves. Nobody is keeping you here, you are free to go and celebrate your racism elsewhere!
And this is not to everyone just those that thought I was attacking you, which means you must fit the profile. If you get all bent out of shape because I never once put that all of them did it, I just put that the ones who do are going too far. Either way, if it was the other way around it would still be the same...if someone is telling you to feel ashamed because of your skin color, it isn't about their pride, it's about them being racist, and it's about them demeaning you to make themselves feel superior and likewise you should give them the finger and tell them where to go!!!!!
Oh and to add where you say about getting hired based on merits and not color...well I am white and have ten + years in retail and a stint in insurance(2 yrs) and medical (5 yrs plus military EMT training) jobs and I been looking for two years for a job, in this economy none of that poor me I aint gettin hired cause my skin color holds as bout as much water as a sieve!

reply to post by ldyserenity


Spare me your lifestory I have neither the resources nor the inclination to verify anything you have written. I am not on the defensive at all. I just responded to the assinine neocon arguement about the effect of racism or slavery that basically goes to state that it wasn't me or may family just got here in the 50s when all was rosy!!!! . In a society obseesed by practicising racism few whites would have had the strenght to reject the benefits of having a white skin. Most did not! Where did a significant part of the wealth of America and the UK come from?

Despite what has been my experiences I still do not practice hate or support it. Face the facts. In fact it was you that decided to come out swinging and defending.

No worries

Originally posted by tiger5
reply to post by ldyserenity

 

Spare me your lifestory I have neither the resources nor the inclination to verify anything you have written. I am not on the defensive at all. I just responded to the assinine neocon arguement about the effect of racism or slavery that basically goes to state that it wasn't me or may family just got here in the 50s when all was rosy!!!! . In a society obseesed by practicising racism few whites would have had the strenght to reject the benefits of having a white skin. Most did not! Where did a significant part of the wealth of America and the UK come from?

Despite what has been my experiences I still do not practice hate or support it. Face the facts. In fact it was you that decided to come out swinging and defending.

No worries

No the OP asked what was too far, I simply said what is too far, On either side of the coin it's is too far that's just the context I used from my own experience that's all I can draw on as I don't know the other way around. That is simply My experience. I don't feel it is right to demean anybody based on the past, the past holds no bearing that is my point... I guess the other way you could equate it is if say a white woman got raped and it was a black man who did it, and now her great great great granchildren think that all black people owe them something because the great great great grandmother got raped by said black man, it's ridiculous. I am just saying. I wasn't swinging.
I haven't been able to use any kind of the such said "white silver spoon" that everybody seems to think we have... I mean I have never once gotten a job based on my skin color ever... I worked very hard and had experience ( and the first job I had actually was because I knew someone who had family that managed the place) but everything after that wasbased on my working hard for them and always being there when scheduled. And I know a lot of minorities that got scholarships that they did very hard work for to recieve and I didn't perform very well in school (I had problems with authority) and I would not even be considered for a scholarship So where does my color help me? That is nuts... I have struggled all my life just as someone of any other race/ethnic background would have if they screwed up in school as I did. By what you are saying it seems to me you think we get a free pass in this world, if we do, I am starting to wonder WTH was I when they were handing those out? I don't think you know the truth of reality today, in the business world it is truly equal period!!!! And I can attest to that, unless you got family and friends in high places, sometimes but that can go for any ethnic group!!!! I know you can't beleive that they just look at our skin color and we get hired. I mean I have gone for jobs that although I am very proficient in them I won't simply ever get hired because I don't meet the formal & adequate certification or experience with, computers is one example, but even the restaraunt business won't hire me because the only formal restaraunt I worked for was some twenty years ago and temporary so not a long stint... I really wish I did get one of those free job passes That is so ludicrous. We have to work just as hard as any other person in any economy to get a scholarship or a good job... I mean really that's your defense?