A question of Space and Time

I have a few questions about space and time and Spacetime.

Does "Space" exist outside of gravity? What I mean by this is that "space is supposed to be a "fabric" in which everything exists. I ask the question because we have never been to, measured or experienced what lies outside of gravity. The only thing I can think of that travels between the large gravity wells made by galaxies is Light.

Is it possible that between or outside the influences of gravity that space does no exists but instead just vast timeless Worm holes" or warps"

Ask the question for a moment... what is inside a worm hole if the space is warped so there is a "hole" between the points of the worm hole? Nothing? This implies that warped space can create a nothingness between points of gravities influence.

If this is true then perhaps our travels to other galaxies will be instant once we remove ourselves from the influence of our own galaxies gravity.

If we are lucky maybe when voyager finally moves out past the influence of our sun it will instantly "warp" to the next gravity influence?

New line of question...
Is there any known "thing" that efects or is known to interact with "space" besides matter or more accurately the gravity associated with matter?

Maybe space is created by matter or the effects of matter's gravity. Could the quantum world simply be to small to be influenced by the fabric of space thus you get quantum intaglement?

We may never be able to be small enough to ignore the fabric os space like quantum particles but perhaps we can find other ways to remove it or get away from it so we can travel in the same world that those quantum particles do.

I am hoping that between the huge gravity wells of our Sun and Galaxy that we too can travel and exist in the medium that quantum particles do and ignore the slowing effects of the force of gravity.

Time may nearly cease to exist outside of gravity. Hopefully the small amount of matter we have in our "ships" and bodies will be sufficient to maintain our particles outside of space and some small amount of time will be generated by our own bodies and "ship".

Seriously...what if space only exists when gravity is present?

I don't think you can ever reach a place in the universe where gravity doesn't exist. By scientific thought gravity, the strongest but also weakest force known, holds the entire universe together.

I do feel that gravity has a direct effect on time. I also think that if you were to enter areas where gravity is weaker that a person would experience a difference in how time flows, in that case faster, while in higher gravity time would be experienced as flowing slower.

reply to post by Xeven

Does "Space" exist outside of gravity?

The quick answer is no, theoretically speaking. It can be proven mathematically that gravity does not have a distance limit. Consider the Inverse Square Law,

physical quantity or strength is inversely proportional to the square of the distance

Source=Wiki

If you do this calculation with any force you will find that it has a seemingly infinite value, it gets astronomically smaller but never-the-less it is still there. So all 'observable space' has gravity yet the question becomes, "What is space?".
I would not consider space to be a "fabric". I know that this is what's being toted around as a real idea but space is a concept rather than something solid like a fabric. Space is not empty yet its quantity is that which can not be measured. It is by definition the lack of, or that which is absent.

Is it possible that between or outside the influences of gravity that space does no exists but instead just vast timeless Worm holes" or warps"

Sure, but since we can not measure it how are we to say that it exists? So therefore what you're describing is non-existence itself. Here we get into a deep philosophical question, "Does non-existence exist?"

I think what you're asking is if there is gravity between galaxies and the obvious answer would be yes, however comparably small it may be. Of coarse gravity effects time, so time in these 'between' areas would be different relatively speaking. The question is, "How much different".

If this is true then perhaps our travels to other galaxies will be instant once we remove ourselves from the influence of our own galaxies gravity.

I think that this would play havoc on our mental abilities. I'm not sure that I would be interested in doing this without a better understanding of the effects.

If we are lucky maybe when voyager finally moves out past the influence of our sun it will instantly "warp" to the next gravity influence?

Keep in mind that we are inside of a galactic gravity well, or influence of gravity. So even though time may be different outside of our 'Solar bubble' (gravity well) it should not be that different since the galaxy is influencing our time through acceleration.

The key here is acceleration, which effects mass and therefore time. The more one accelerates, the more mass one gains through inertia and the more time dilates (slows down) from this acceleration. This is a basic description of relativity btw.

Something most are not aware of is that our galaxy is rotating like a solid wheel, outside of the center "bar". This is significant because using the force of gravity alone to explain this rotation the outskirts of the galaxy should be rotating at a much slower rate and thus the spiral arms would get twisted up beyond recognition, yet this does not happen. It would look similar to mixing paint, after some point in time the two would become indistinguishable from each other meaning no more spiral arms.

So our entire galaxy is under a constant acceleration from a yet to be described force and we are in a time/gravity bubble within this galaxy. Theoretically stepping outside of this 'bubble' we would see a dramatic change in time through a loss of rotational acceleration. Of coarse we could impede this understanding by adding in a fictitious element, i.e. dark matter.

Maybe space is created by matter or the effects of matter's gravity. Could the quantum world simply be to small to be influenced by the fabric of space thus you get quantum intaglement?

Overall, I think this is a fair understanding. I would change your focus from a negative (space) to a positive (mass and time) and compare the measurements of these positives against the inability to measure the negative. Empty space has no value, it's only the things inside of this space that we can measure and therefore compare.

I am hoping that between the huge gravity wells of our Sun and Galaxy that we too can travel and exist in the medium that quantum particles do and ignore the slowing effects of the force of gravity.

In order to go outside of these effects and "warp" through space we must first understand how gravity propagates. Gravity does not move through an empty space but rather moves though a medium, the same goes for light. To effect gravity and therefore time one must be able to influence this medium. In order to influence this medium we must first recognize this medium and by using our current scientific explanation of "space" it is very unlikely that this will ever happen.

Time may nearly cease to exist outside of gravity.

This is a partial description of infinite. The non-existence of time, gravity and the ability to measure is infinite or that which is beyond measure.

reply to post by Devino


Thank you verry much for your reply it is very well thought out and helpful to my understanding. There is so much we do not know about the Universe. It is a shame we spend so much on our war machine rather than learning all we can about the Universe and how we can explore and expand humanity out into it.

reply to post by Xeven

Does "Space" exist outside of gravity? What I mean by this is that "space is supposed to be a "fabric" in which everything exists. I ask the question because we have never been to, measured or experienced what lies outside of gravity. The only thing I can think of that travels between the large gravity wells made by galaxies is Light.

The question, here, is what gravity is. Perhaps the relationship is backwards - space doesn't come from gravity, but gravity comes from the distance between two objects, and the potential difference between them. A black hole could be described as maximum entropy, and the farthest edge of the universe (reachable or not, 'imaginary' or not) as minimum entropy.

Is it possible that between or outside the influences of gravity that space does no exists but instead just vast timeless Worm holes" or warps"

I can't really say one way or another. Our current understanding of the universe does not really suggest it as being a realistic possibility - and we all know our current understanding is absolute (sarcasm intended, if it wasn't obvious).

Ask the question for a moment... what is inside a worm hole if the space is warped so there is a "hole" between the points of the worm hole? Nothing? This implies that warped space can create a nothingness between points of gravities influence.

Well, we've never really seen a wormhole - so it's hard to say for certain what exists between the two points - if anything at all. Think of entangled particle effects - if you had an entangled region of space, what happens to one happens to another (more or less) - there doesn't really -need- to be physical space linking the two.

But it is nice to keep all options out on the field.

If this is true then perhaps our travels to other galaxies will be instant once we remove ourselves from the influence of our own galaxies gravity.

There's no real way of knowing at this point in time - and it will probably be quite a while before we are capable of getting out of the local cluster, let alone to the galactic void.

If we are lucky maybe when voyager finally moves out past the influence of our sun it will instantly "warp" to the next gravity influence?

I don't know about that - but I could see it potentially speeding up or some other unprecedented activity. Though I do not know if we will be able to observe it very well once it gets out so far. We would probably need to build special arrays in space - larger than any here on Earth, to follow it.

Is there any known "thing" that efects or is known to interact with "space" besides matter or more accurately the gravity associated with matter?

Not that I am aware of... but that's not to say there isn't. Finding other things capable of imparting similar effects as gravity would go a long way toward figuring out what gravity is and reconciling it with quantum mechanics.

Maybe space is created by matter or the effects of matter's gravity. Could the quantum world simply be to small to be influenced by the fabric of space thus you get quantum intaglement?

Emergent gravity postulates that gravity is a macroscopic effect of quantum mechanics - so the two are one in the same. Personally, I am not of the opinion that the subatomic world is too small to be influenced by gravity - but I can only hold that opinion for as long as research remains inconclusive on the issue.

Time may nearly cease to exist outside of gravity. Hopefully the small amount of matter we have in our "ships" and bodies will be sufficient to maintain our particles outside of space and some small amount of time will be generated by our own bodies and "ship".

Well, we know that quantum activity slows in the presence of matter and the slowing is inversely proportional to the distance separating the matter involved. IE - the farther away from gravitational forces you are, the faster quantum activity takes place. Of course, the faster you move, the slower everything works, too... so - who knows.

reply to post by Xeven


Space and time could be the same thing.

Gravity is imagination. It is observation(experience), and focus.