what does happen when we die.

Originally posted by rubbertramp
reply to post by ReginaAdonnaAaron

 

thanx for the reply, it's a bit too biblically christian for my taste, but this is why i posted this so people can express their beliefs. thanx.

It should be noted, that a person can seek forgiveness after having committed a vile act while still in the Physical Realm.

would this count for someone who, lets say, molested and murdered a child?

Thank you for the opportunity to make these Truths public in response to your question so that others may learn from it and have the opportunity to accept the knowledge, understanding and wisdom that comes from Yahweh who is our Creator.

Yes, it applies to all vile sins. Yahweh is a loving and forgiving as well as fair and righteous God - but it must be heart-felt repentance and Yahweh is the judge of all hearts.

reply to post by rubbertramp


I know what I offer in this post will go against the grain of most Belief-Systems and Faiths, so I apologise in advance for any offence it may cause.

Life and Death are like going to sleep then waking up.. in that order.

Over the years I've been lucky enough to have what we can call, "Lost Dead" come to me. It wasn't my choice at first but I learned to go with it. This has allowed me some inspired, direct observation of those stuck here and those newly released from the body.

To cut a very long story short, once they are ready I put my arms around them and take them into the Light.. a place I found on my own as a teenager in 1977. Once there I can rely on the fact that someone or something is always waiting for the new arrival, and, within a minute or so the new arrival starts to do what I call Waking-Up.

When this happens.. it's beautiful to see and brings tears of joy to my eyes every time... they look as if they are lighting up from inside.. and the Human Facade starts to break down. All the Beliefs, all the Concepts, all our long held thinking about should/shouldn't and can/can't be's.. it all starts to fall away until the arrival stands clear and bright.

I love seeing this. It's like watching them wake up from a dream.. .The Dream of Life in the World.

Originally posted by ReginaAdonnaAaron

Originally posted by rubbertramp
reply to post by ReginaAdonnaAaron

 

thanx for the reply, it's a bit too biblically christian for my taste, but this is why i posted this so people can express their beliefs. thanx.

It should be noted, that a person can seek forgiveness after having committed a vile act while still in the Physical Realm.

would this count for someone who, lets say, molested and murdered a child?

Thank you for the opportunity to make these Truths public in response to your question so that others may learn from it and have the opportunity to accept the knowledge, understanding and wisdom that comes from Yahweh who is our Creator.

Yes, it applies to all vile sins. Yahweh is a loving and forgiving as well as fair and righteous God - but it must be heart-felt repentance and Yahweh is the judge of all hearts.

very interesting. to be honest in ways it repels me away from your faith.
if a molestor and murdered of a child can be forgiven by an apology it makes me wonder.
if they were forgiven by a series of actions taken to make up for and/or prove it a mistake and was not their usual self it would be easy to comprehend.
like my example, i'd have more forgiveness for someone who had a mental break, or other issue.
yet, to molest and murder a child, then ask for forgiveness to be accepted into heaven is far to easy for an action like i gave.

Originally posted by davespanners
I'm going to vote for a slow decrease of brain function, possibly with a few nice visual / auditory hallucinations thrown in to make it a bit less distressing and then the absolute black nothingness of oblivion.

You get my vote Dave. The hallucinations become "visions of the afterlife" if the person is brought back from the brink by medical staff.

Note how the afterlife just happens to match the collective belief system of the society (not necessarily person). What a coincidence......think about it!

If there truly was an afterlife then everybody brought back from the brink everywhere in the world would have the same visions to tell.

Originally posted by rubbertramp
i tried searching this topic but didn't come up with much.
thought it would be interesting to give everyone a chance to just express beliefs on the subject.
do you believe in an actual heaven and hell?
do we just decompose and end up as dirt?
is there a certain energy level we obtain?
where do 'ghost' or 'spirits' enter the equation?
are we able to choose our destiny in any way?
anyone think we are reincarnated?

The closest you can come to some sort of "experiences" is through past lives regression. Even that it wouldn't really tell you the transitional experiences. Imagine that in reincarnation and you are reborn and subjected to the law of karma, does that mean you will experience heaven or hell in your next life??? So, living is either heaven or hell for your next life?

You can study ghost stories and why some spirits decided to linger on earth after death. You can physically die but your consciousness lives on?

reply to post by rubbertramp


The dilemma with people who have died and then come back, IMO, is the same one we have with the whole extraterrestrial scenario. We have millions of "first hand" accounts that people recount, but the skeptics of the world want real hard proof. Those who have not had a first hand experience, tend to not believe the people who claimed to have had one. Why is that? Are they all liars? I don't think so.

Having said this, I died for 7 minutes, and then was in a coma for a little over a month, kept alive by machines. I feel that I have "first hand" knowledge about what happens when we die, but it would not readily be accepted as truth. Why? Because I have no tangible proof. Even though I feel that the changes most people go through physically, emotionally and spiritually after surviving death are proof enough, the world however, does not.

reply to post by rubbertramp


Hey rubber-tramp!

I made a thread on this quite a while ago... asking members if they believe in life after death. Check it out if you're interested: www.abovetopsecret.com...

As for my own personal view...

I believe that when we die, our consciousness continues to exist in other realms or dimensions; realities that our material third-dimensional brains could never understand or comprehend... simply for lack of absolutely anything to compare it with.

What happens then is up for debate... but I base my view upon the fact that in essence, we are all energy; vibrating matter.

Our consciousness is energy, and just like the energy that is in all forms of matter (right down to the atoms and even further), it never disappears or ends- it simply changes form.

Originally posted by davespanners
reply to post by KrypticCriminal

 

Worthless? Not really

I kind of enjoy life, although mine is by no means perfect, why can't the point of life be to be alive?

Sorry, maybe worthless was the wrong word, i meant pointless or meaningless, but fair point. In a way you try to make the most of it just in case.

I have to admit that i would be the same if i had'nt had experiences with the paranormal. Thats the only reason im open to an afterlife. I do occationaly still think that im being egotistical, in my believe that we are special somehow and deserving of an after life.

Still, i cant discount what experiences ive had so what do you do. Maybe you'll have something that will change your mind one day.

reply to post by ReginaAdonnaAaron


Just wanted to say I loved your comment on this on pg 2
Stars for you*******my friend

reply to post by rubbertramp


my wife and I lost our eldest son in November 2000 27Th
we were both distraught but my wife was losing it big time so i went along with her request to see a medium,at worst it may make her feel a little better and at best we might just learn something new!?
WOW did we learn something new
unknown to the medium at the sitting was our personal circumstances for the previous weeks.
my wife sat down at a table of about 8 people, it was a sort of marathon where 6 mediums tried to give all at there table a reading then musical tables and started all over again.
so when it came to my wife's turn with a women medium, we didn't hold much hope on everything positive.
the medium started her reading looking right at my wife and said "i have a young man here who passed over in tragic
circumstances, he is by your shoulder and he is upset and crying,he is saying sorry and he didn't mean to do it
he says thank you for talking to and kissing his photo every morning(proof 1,she never told anyone she did this including me), he says when we were discussing whether to go shopping to town or on the coast,he was there and was bewildered that no one was talking to him,(proof 2,we were talking on the saterday morning of going to Aberystwyth on the welsh coast for some fresh air and the monthly shopping stock up.
he then said it was him with the bell,whatever that means,the medium said...??
the bell was a Xmas bell we hung on the large Santa model we had on the mantle piece shelf,
while we were sorting through his things such as clothes and credit cards(to pay bills) my wife went to the stairs to take the first bag (to be sorted out) upstairs,while i stayed in the dinning room sorting out the second bag,This means we were at opposite ends of the house and nowhere near the lounge where the bell was,.
it started to ring and did not stop till my wife turned round on the stairs and entered the lounge shouting through Dave was that you,i said no i thought it was you, we both looked around the room to see the bell still swinging,only when we saw it did it stop,
i am a believer now of life after death and as such death no longer holds any demons for my self or my wife,

long winded i know but in answer to your Q yes there is an heaven,ergo there must be a hell,
Equal opposites and reactions and all that,
just thought it might help someone else who has lost some loved one, or is having a faith crises,
this world we live in is fast running out of time,and has such when the end comes IT AINT GONNA BE PRETTY
as the man says.
i am not overly religious but i believe that the human spirit never dies it just keeps on evolving, always higher,
so that's my two peneth worth,for what its worth.
god bless everyone,and i hope the end will be peaceful for you all
vassili9876

I don't have a clue what is going to happen........I just know/believe/want something to happen. No blackness......no oblivion........but something. It's very exciting to think about...all the possibilities....because if my belief is incorrect......it won't really matter will it? I'm gone forever at that point. So i'll keep on believing that the journey is just beginning at death........until I croak and blackness ensues......or adventure abounds!

Throughout the ages and cultures, NDE's seem to have a common theme. Light at the end fo the tunnel/intense feeling of love/beings of light/hovering over body etc.... If these were just a biological response...why dont more people have them? Surely experiences would differ based on cultures and traditions? Even on a personal level...someone who loves food...why arent they greeted by a giant french fry or ice cream cone? How can consciousness exist if the heart and brain are not functioning?

So, throughout time and history we have consistency in what people generally experience. Again, are these experiences biological? Maybe more people do have them...they are just unable to recall them? Perhaps some people are more connected on a spiritual level. At least briefly, you have to step back and contemplate the size and scope of this Universe. Why is it here....do you think everything exists from the perfect alignment of the most random equations?

For those of you that don't believe in the spirit or ghosts or whatever, I want to suggest that you search for most haunted places near where you live and go to one of them at night or day and just browse around...

Or go to a cemetary and start yelling that there are no such things as ghosts or spirits and see if you get touched or maybe even followed home by some non existing spirit.... (actually, don't do that.. even if you don't believe, I would not wish that upon anyone, because it can and will happen) you could get followed home by some predatory spirit

There is now tons of evidence that it is a real thing..
My neice has a home located on what was an old sawmill in the 1800's and they started talking about odd things happening inside the house, but only in one of the back kids bedroom... and off that bedroom is a bathroom with a shower, she would be taking a shower and get creeped out and say later that it felt like someone was standing like one inch away from her and looking right into her face.

Now they have 2 kids and one is a 2 year old boy and he will not go in that room and when they asked why, he points in there and mumbles something, the older kid that is 4 says there are strange people in there...but both kids seem to be pretty afraid of that area....

They always have some new creepy story when the family gets together ..

Personally I think there are so many questions about it that they just can't be answered unless you die first

The mainstream evidence is all stories and personal experiences, but I do not think everyone can be lying...
There is much further evidence in the form of recorded ghost voices that when the voice is recorded it is captured in a frequency that is outside the normal range of human hearing and wasn't heard at the time, but the device converts the sound upon playback to be hearable...

what does happen when we die.

As other's have mentioned, "who knows?" One can sort through the many customs and perspectives to try and form an idea, but in the end we won't know til it happens I guess.
One book I ran across does an excellent job of exploring the subject, Deepak Chopra's Life After Death.

What was most magical in my childhood was transformation. Death itself was seen as a brief stopping point on an endless soul journey that could turn a peasant into a king and vice versa. With the possibility of infinite lifetimes extending forward and backward, a soul could experience hundreds of heavens and hells. Death ended nothing; it opened up limitless adventures. But at a deeper level, it's typically Indian not to crave permanence. A drop of water becomes vapor, which is invisible, yet vapor materializes into billowing clouds, and from clouds rain falls back to earth, forming river torrents and eventually merging into the sea. Has the drop of water died along the way? No, it undergoes a new expression at each stage. Likewise, the idea that I have a fixed body locked in space and time is a mirage. Any drop of water inside my body could have been ocean, cloud, river, or spring the day before. I remind myself of this fact when the bonds of daily life squeeze too tight.

In the West the hereafter has been viewed as a place akin to the material world. Heaven, hell, and purgatory lie in some distant region beyond the sky or under the earth. In the India of my childhood the hereafter wasn't a place at all, but a state of awareness.

The cosmos that you and I are experiencing right now, with trees, plants, people, houses, cars, stars, and galaxies, is just consciousness expressing itself at one particular frequency. Elsewhere in spacetime, different planes exist simultaneously. If I had asked my grandmother where heaven was, she would have pointed to the house we lived in, not only because it was full of love, but because it made sense to her that many worlds could comfortably inhabit the same place. By analogy, if you are listening to a concert orchestra, there are a hundred instruments playing, each occupying the same place in space and time. You can listen to the symphony as a whole or, if you wish, put your attention on a specific instrument. You can even separate out the individual notes played by that instrument. The presence of one frequency does not displace any of the others.

www.randomhouse.com...
It's really just a poetic stab, but I thought it was a nice read and it left me with more awe of the experience.

Peace,
spec

I'm Agnostic, so I'm not too sure of that whole Heaven-Hell thing.
But my religion is based on human experience, so I can't say that nothing happens when we die.
I've heard too many stories of people in the hospital who have actually "died" for a few seconds, but came back thanks to doctors. Most seem to describe them in a big, beautiful field with a light gleaming in the distance, sometimes with family members present.
I believe this to be true, so something similar to this must happen when you die. I do not believe it to be too likely that God (or any other deity) will be sitting there waiting for you, but I can't say it to be impossible. And I don't think there is a "bad" or "good" place to go, it's all just one place, outside our realms of knowledge and science. Whether that place is happy, evil, or in the middle, I don't know. And we'll probably never know.

Originally posted by rubbertramp
i tried searching this topic but didn't come up with much.
thought it would be interesting to give everyone a chance to just express beliefs on the subject.
do you believe in an actual heaven and hell?
do we just decompose and end up as dirt?
is there a certain energy level we obtain?
where do 'ghost' or 'spirits' enter the equation?
are we able to choose our destiny in any way?
anyone think we are reincarnated?

I have had an NDE(Near Death Experience) but I actually died for 15 or more minutes. What I saw may be an affirmation of an afterlife but then again if I came back that couldnt have been the after life..... remember if you choose to live do not walk into the light; or at least turn your back to it.

All I know is it felt liberating and like the beginning of an endless journey of wonder. I want there long enough to say anymore other than, prepare for the afterlife with knowledge and you will be okay; knowledge is all you take with you besides your life experience, which is also another way of acquiring knowledge. Oh yeah and let go of all of your earthly desires/worries.

Despite our religious beliefs, we really don't know.
Personally, I think what little we know about quantum physics even at this point, is proof-positive that what we're concious of now is merely a drop in the proverbial bucket.
The known laws of the universe tell us that 1.) We are energy & 2.) Energy cannot be destroyed
Now, what one thinks the transitional result of that energy, once it is spent/expired here on earth, begins to encroach upon religious belief.
IMO, science has proven and continues to prove that we continue after death. But exactly how we continue, well, we haven't gotten that far yet.
I also think the reason we have no definitive answer is because it would bear too much of a loitering influence on our lives here. Simply put, we'd most likely just sit around on our a$$e$ because we'd already read the last page of the book, so to speak.

Originally posted by rubbertramp
very interesting. to be honest in ways it repels me away from your faith.
if a molestor and murdered of a child can be forgiven by an apology it makes me wonder.
if they were forgiven by a series of actions taken to make up for and/or prove it a mistake and was not their usual self it would be easy to comprehend.
like my example, i'd have more forgiveness for someone who had a mental break, or other issue.
yet, to molest and murder a child, then ask for forgiveness to be accepted into heaven is far to easy for an action like i gave.

The point is that no human being can earn their way into heaven. That is what makes it truly fair. God is more interested in our heart than our deeds. When we choose to do sh*tty, and yes even evil or terrible deeds, granted our heart ain't even close to being right when we're doing it.
However, there are people who have done terrible things for countless reasons we'll never know, maybe because they were hurt as a child, so they just continued the sick process and took on the role of abuser, we simply don't know. The fact is, people are abused and terrible, horrible things happen---the ultimate reason for that? I don't know. However, the fact also is that some of these people become truly, truly repentant and have heart-felt regret for what they've done. God sees that, and most of the time, we don't. One of the biggest tenets of the Christian faith is "forgiveness." Whether asking God, or whether asking each other. That is what helps to make our heart right.
It rains on the wicked and the righteous alike, so the wheat will continue to grow with the tares until the harvest.

Originally posted by davespanners
I'm going to vote for a slow decrease of brain function, possibly with a few nice visual / auditory hallucinations thrown in to make it a bit less distressing and then the absolute black nothingness of oblivion.

"Once you go black, you never go back"
Haha sorry I just had that song stuck in my head when I read this.

But really, I do think that this is a pretty logical possibly.