Revising the "Cogito" of Descartes

Originally posted by Vicky32 Solipsism is the ultimate in selfishness/self-centredness. I agree with whoever said it's a product of individualism. Less individualistic cultures simply laugh at the solipsist, as at a 3 year old who thinks the world revolves around him!

But there is a specific reason why solipsism is such a seductive argument: It originates in the 'movement' of self-reflection which is the very origin of the "self"; which, then, is maintained by the 'thinker' which only postulates itself into existence. In other words, solipsism is the manifestation in words of a fundamental mechanism of consciousness.

Vicky AFAIK Descartes went further, adding that as he knew he wasn't God, and knew God doesn't lie, that the world and other people also exist.

But this is merely another thought, which is not as certain as the postulation of the 'thinker' itself.

In other words, it is a specific attempt to deny the fact that the 'thinker' 'thinks' itself into existence and is self-created.

Even worse, however, it turns the feminine perspective completely upside down by placing the existence of thought before the existence of reality.

If you try to discuss the cogito with a group of men, they will likely consider the discussion to be important in one way or another.

Try discussing this with a group of women, however, and the much more likely response is "Huh??? This is supposed to actually mean something or to be important? Are you serious?"

In other words, it is quite obvious to the feminine perspective that the statement should have been "I am, therefore, I think" rather than the reverse.

Women are much more grounded in reality; whereas men are grounded more in thought.

Mi cha el

Originally posted by Michael Cecil

Originally posted by Vicky32 Solipsism is the ultimate in selfishness/self-centredness. I agree with whoever said it's a product of individualism. Less individualistic cultures simply laugh at the solipsist, as at a 3 year old who thinks the world revolves around him!

Originally posted by Michael CecilBut there is a specific reason why solipsism is such a seductive argument: It originates in the 'movement' of self-reflection which is the very origin of the "self"; which, then, is maintained by the 'thinker' which only postulates itself into existence. In other words, solipsism is the manifestation in words of a fundamental mechanism of consciousness.

I am reasonably sure that my experience is different from what you say... inasmuch as from my earliest memories, I was a part of the family, and thought of myself in relation to them (parents, sister, brother) and to an extent still do. The 'self' and the 'thinker' co-exist, and always have done (assuming that I really get what you'tre saying!)

Vicky AFAIK Descartes went further, adding that as he knew he wasn't God, and knew God doesn't lie, that the world and other people also exist.

Originally posted by Michael CecilIf you try to discuss the cogito with a group of men, they will likely consider the discussion to be important in one way or another.

From my experience, that's true! I first heard of the concept of solipsism from my brother - I was probably 17 which means my brother must have been around 9 years old - he'd learned of the idea from his (male) school-teacher. I laughed it to scorn! (As did my brother when he thought about it some more.)

Originally posted by Michael Cecil[/iTry discussing this with a group of women, however, and the much more likely response is "Huh??? This is supposed to actually mean something or to be important? Are you serious?"

In other words, it is quite obvious to the feminine perspective that the statement should have been "I am, therefore, I think" rather than the reverse.

Women are much more grounded in reality; whereas men are grounded more in thought.

Mi cha el

By and large, having given it some thought, I believe you're right, speaking as a woman!
I don't actually go a bomb on philosophy or psychology despite having studied the latter (Ed. Psych, not general!)
Vicky