Are We Dead Yet?

reply to post by dannyfal


The suffering you feel and describe is a common one amongst us humans ... but it is also an invitation, it can propel one to their true nature and fulfill one's potentiality. Many believe that if life is to hold any meaning, transcending the mental imprisonment of daily life as we perceive is our purpose.

This however can be a daunting and painful process but it is the only one available to any of us. Perhaps this is why many would prefer for the whole ship just to go down lest they have to take this considerable personal undertaking.

I always thought we Greeks invented the concept on 'spite' for we have the best way to describe it:

"If I can't push you over the hill then I will pull you!"

This is to say that the rest of the world doesn't need to go down just because some folks aren't prepared to do the internal work to shed their suffering.

There's something fundamentally so honest about the way you describe your current state ... this kind of vulnerability is rare and it is appreciated ... I hope it triggers in you the will to investigate what truly is behind it and shed said suffering. I always found it interesting that the point of the story of the death and resurrection of Christ is missed by so many. It is primarily a metaphor for the death of the life of the mind made 'me' so that one's true self, the 'I' can emerge. Think about it.

Cheers!

reply to post by dannyfal

so as shamans in remote locations all around the world have vast amounts of knowledge that can help the western world, we turn a blind eye simply because of how we were taught in schools (ultimately). i'm sorry if my explanation is retarded lol.

First of all you explained your feelings very well, not in the least retarted, it isn't always easy sharing our truths with others. Thank you for that.

You are correct in that Shamans in remote locations share their knowledge with us, just because you were taught one thing in school doesn't mean you shouldn't embrace other knowledge, if may resonate with you and ultimately change your way of thinking and your life.

Originally posted by schrodingers dog
reply to post by dannyfal

 

The suffering you feel and describe is a common one amongst us humans ... but it is also an invitation, it can propel one to their true nature and fulfill one's potentiality. Many believe that if life is to hold any meaning, transcending the mental imprisonment of daily life as we perceive is our purpose.

This however can be a daunting and painful process but it is the only one available to any of us. Perhaps this is why many would prefer for the whole ship just to go down lest they have to take this considerable personal undertaking.

I always thought we Greeks invented the concept on 'spite' for we have the best way to describe it:

"If I can't push you over the hill then I will pull you!"

This is to say that the rest of the world doesn't need to go down just because some folks aren't prepared to do the internal work to shed their suffering.

There's something fundamentally so honest about the way you describe your current state ... this kind of vulnerability is rare and it is appreciated ... I hope it triggers in you the will to investigate what truly is behind it and shed said suffering. I always found it interesting that the point of the story of the death and resurrection of Christ is missed by so many. It is primarily a metaphor for the death of the life of the mind made 'me' so that one's true self, the 'I' can emerge. Think about it.

Cheers!

Thats some really good advice. My "I" is apart of a greater "I" that honestly could care less what goes on in my lower personality. Its a place of rest that i thank G-d i can just repose in sometimes, when things become stressful. But i also think people have to be careful not to give expression to feelings that are in truth, completely evil. I get the mentality that gives birth to those feelings, and how when you feel that way it seems impossible to break away from them. Thats why the "I" exists. You dont have to be affected by anything, if you simply choose not to. Thats what i do when im irritated by someone or worried about a situation. I sit calmy, take a few breaths, enter that "self" state, as Jung would call it, and just rest there. Its also from here that im able to summon the proper attitude to show love, kindness and compasson for others.

The fact that a simple feeling like "i wish the world would go to hell", when given expression, can have such widespread effects, really evinces the power each of us have to either effect good or contribute to a negative atmosphere of apathy, and evil. Just one person, if he takes that attitude, could contribute, in potential, to the deaths of millions. Of course he didnt personally engage in the evil, but he disassociated himself from the consequence and aftermath of that desire for "chaos". He ignored the fate of others, who like him, simply want to live in happiness and in peace. Compound that by a few billion, and you can recognize the gravity of just one simple statement, made towards G-d himself, that i simply dont care about anyone but myself.

Its one thing to admit feelings one has, and another to willfully believe it. In the latter case theres always repentance, called 'teshuva' (literally, to return) in Judaism, which in itself means the return to oneness with the divine, which necessitates a compassion and love for all creatures, and only to want the best for them.

As for the Greeks and their nihilism. I got mixed feelings for the Greeks. I enjoy studying the classics (currently reading Euripides) and theres just so much i completely disagree with, and yet, much that ive learned and can appreciate. The Greek mentality has really helped in the development of the world, and our objective, scientific analysis of it. Their philosophy for life, however, is not whats best for mankind. The Jews however (im not Jewish, just appreciate their philosophy) contributed to this hybrid that is christian civilization a strong moral compass and a connection with the creator of the universe. Both the Greeks and the Jews have worked together in this enterprise, and both aspects are completely indispensible, imo.

Originally posted by dannyfal
reply to post by dontreally

 

honestly, you're right. its a pretty selfish point of view. nonetheless i think its a view that myself and many others hold (wanting chaos). i'm not saying its the correct way to go about life but this is just one of many answers to the OP's question.

but yea your right a lot of people would die and stuff, i personally don't see death as a bad thing. sometimes a lot of bad has to happen for a greater good. if i have to give up toilet paper and tv so future generations live in a less materialistic fashion than so be it.

but again, your right, i'm wrong. i know ATS isn't used to that lol but your argument was formulated too well to refute

Thanks,

I agree that 'evil' can produce good. But i dont think Humans should think that theyre the ones who should create and engineer the evil in order to bring about good. Good can about in anyway it wants, either through evil, or through simple good.

But i do agree that if the economy did break down and chaos ensued, all the materialistic people would be shocked out of their spiritual hibernation and forced to look at the world in a more meaningful way. Beyond Xbox 360 and clubbing and whatevelse is popular that they do. That would be a definite good.

But i cant ignore tha fact that wed lose more than wed gain. Many people would suffer horribly - both mentally and physically, and it would be hard to bear witness to that. I have close family members who need medications and i wouldnt want to see anything happen to them. Im currently in school and im looking forward to getting married and having kids one day. How can i do that in a police state america? I cant. nor would i would to bring kids into a world like that.

So, when you weight the pros and cons, there are pros in that this evil materialism will be extinguished to some degree, but the loss of living standards, death, sickeness, insanity, also the crime etc would be far worse.

Originally posted by dannyfal
reply to post by dontreally

 

but i'm bored at work so i'll argue against some of the things u said anyway lol. sorry

i do find most to be mentally enslaved... even those evolved spiritually. spending half of my waking hours in an office pays its toll on me mentally and spiritually. it takes the human quality out of you. couple that with the retarded money system we have in place and it all just seems so... pointless

a lot of my negativity stems from the lifestyle we are born into in the western world. we aren't really allowed to think for ourselves as children, and most of what u pick up as an adolescent is from other peers. i have a hard time explaining things so i'll put it in a different way. we are led to have a fixed belief system (whatever it may be) which automatically closes us off to other ways of thinking. for example, we are force fed that science is the end of all truth and that there are no other possibilities. so as shamans in remote locations all around the world have vast amounts of knowledge that can help the western world, we turn a blind eye simply because of how we were taught in schools (ultimately). i'm sorry if my explanation is retarded lol.

You dont have to be a shaman to experience reality in a meaningfull way.

No, what you said makes sense. Its annoying. I hate that the majority of people my age, are mindless pea brains obsessed with some cultural fad, in music, TV etc. The instance you begin to discuss meaningful things, like philosophy, history, politics, religion, they shut their brains off. Theyre hardly interested. and its irritating as hell. I use to have very close relationships with many people, cousins, that are hardly alive anymore because we dont relate anymore. Its not that i cant have fun or go to the cottage every summer, which i do. Its just thats all theyre interested in doing. And thats simply not normal. Theres no balance to their personalities. Everyone is schizoid, to some extent. Hence the popular saying "21st century schizoid man". People have not balanced and integrated these competing urges. They give full expression to their physical lusts, and ignore their spiritual self, which becomes passive, to their emotional aims. The mind doesnt rule the heart, the heart controls the mind. Thats stupid nonsense.

This is what Orwell meant when he said "its a beautiful thing, the destruction of words. Dont you see that the whole purpose of newspeak is to narrow the range of thought? In the end there wont be any need for reality control"