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Originally posted by Michael Cecil
reply to post by adjensen
The subject matter of this thread is the reason for the crucifixion:
Was it as a "vicarious atonement for the sins of men", as asserted by Paul?
Or was it, instead, because Jesus taught the Doctrine of "resurrection" as a Doctrine of 'Rebirth'?
I am saying that to 'explain' the crucifixion by Paul's doctrine of "vicarious atonement for the sins of men" resulted very directly in the idolatrization of Jesus as 'God' and the slaughter of millions of Jews during the Holocaust.
Originally posted by adjensen
Originally posted by Michael Cecil
reply to post by adjensen
The subject matter of this thread is the reason for the crucifixion:
Was it as a "vicarious atonement for the sins of men", as asserted by Paul?
Or was it, instead, because Jesus taught the Doctrine of "resurrection" as a Doctrine of 'Rebirth'?
These are two separate notions. The first is defining God's purpose, while the second is defining man's purpose.
The counter to the second is "Jesus wasn't crucified because he was preaching reincarnation, he was crucified because he was teaching that the Jewish authorities were misleading the people."
If you have a counter for the first, an explanation of God's plan, that is fine, but all evidence is that my version of the second is the accurate one.
I am saying that to 'explain' the crucifixion by Paul's doctrine of "vicarious atonement for the sins of men" resulted very directly in the idolatrization of Jesus as 'God' and the slaughter of millions of Jews during the Holocaust.
You are once again making a cause and effect leap in logic that is invalid.
Jesus was killed, I presume that we can agree on that. Jesus was killed by the Romans, at the behest of the Jewish religious authorities, I don't presume that we can agree on that, but this is what the evidence shows.
So, regardless of the rational for the action, the result is the same.
We don't need new doctrine and new explanations, we need to understand, accept and practice the ones that we already have before we deem Christianity a failure.
Originally posted by Michael Cecil
Logic cannot save you here. It makes no difference if you consider it invalid. There is historical evidence of several hundreds of years of Christian anti-Semitism. What was its source? The belief that "the Jews" were responsible for killing 'God'. Merely that statement alone makes "the Jews" to be the most EVIL critters in the history of human civilization.
Of course we agree on this. But the question is "Why was Jesus so dangerous?"
The idolatrization of Jesus as 'God' is necessary for the doctrine of vicarious atonement.
It has succeeded in exterminating millions of Muslims throughout the Middle East over the past 34 years.
Originally posted by Ausar
wasnt "jesus" executed for breaking the law?