How dare anyone critisise the US for Liberating Iraq. (A few things about Iraq and Iran)

Hey just another ignorant pupil who doesn't get war and destruction thats me....
maybe something to do with the fact that I've seen it first hand, unlike the movie goers amongst you armchair fighter pilot wanna be's

Originally posted by nyarlathotep

Originally posted by Agent47
Thank you nyarlathotep for helping trying to point out the ignorance tonight.

Hey no problem man. Just trying to teach the ignorant, that's all. We have a lot of work with Smudge though, he's not a very good pupil.

This is an example of what Banshee was speaking about earlier.STOP SWIPPING AT EACH OTHER

Nevermind.

[edit on 26-6-2004 by Agent47]

Hey Agent47, Smudge, the Mods are right. We really should stop taking pot shots at each other. How about we agree to disagree? Can we kiss and make up now? Can't we all just get along?

the original topic of this post was "How dare anyone critisise the US for Liberating Iraq." and the justification provided was a single cut and paste and a claim to have read 500 pages. well i too have read 500 pages, but i'm not going to pretend my opinion is worth something because of it. i simply offer it as is, as representative of a citizen who is unhappy with the way his country has acted.

saddam was evil. no one doubts that. i'm happy he's gone. but i'm not happy with the way it was done. a cia bullet through the head would have been preferable to a war costing many lives- civilian and military- than a war. war is bad. sometimes, but rarely, just, but always bad. we can lump hitler, stalin, saddam, pol pot, whoever all together and compare their evilness. i don't see the point. there's evil all around the world, and we often don't do anything about it. i won't accept someone telling me i have to believe george w bush is a saint fighting a just war, because i don't.

i suppose the hardest thing for me to get my head around is the fact that the 9/11 terrorists were saudi. the funders were saudi. bin ladin was saudi. any wmd's iraq may have had you can bet saudi arabia can produce at the drop of a hat. but guess who was selling us oil and buying our abrams tanks and m-16's? guess where we already had well established oil business?

yeah, it's nice saddam is gone. but spare me the bs about just wars. i grow bored of the lies, and the president who offered to "unite the country" should take note: so does half of america.

-koji K.

Well I started my military carreer in 1986 and saw most of the world up untill I left in 98 inc. Two tours of Northern Ireland several U.N peace keepers inc. Bosnia and of course Iraq oct 90 - Apr 91 I know you won't believe me so I'll dig up some pics and post em for you

sorry this was in response to Agent 147 who was no doubt assuming I was a liar but has now withdrawn his post. I'll put my pics up anyway..when I find em

[edit on 26-6-2004 by Smudge]

Originally posted by Smudge
Well I started my military carreer in 1986 and saw most of the world up untill I left in 98 inc. Two tours of Northern Ireland several U.N peace keepers inc. Bosnia and of course Iraq oct 90 - Apr 91 I know you won't believe me so I'll dig up some pics and post em for you

Well I can now certainly understand your point of view seeing how you have seen war first hand. I will leave it at this, we are all entitled to our opinions and I apologize for making it personal and making the comment about how you raise your children, it's none of my business. For that I am truly sorry. I have 3 children of my own and I know how you feel about that.

Your point is what exactly AceOfBase? That the CIA helped Saddam into power? And thats a crime? The time period was? US relations with the USSR and eventually Iran was? US foreign policy was what at that time?

All amounts to global Cold War Foreign Policy AceOfBase. The goal with Iraq was to make it pro-West, and it was successful. The success of Iraq's pro-West stance was heightened further with the Iran hostage situation. During the Iran-Iraq war, Saddam started drifting from being pro-West; a side effect of the Cold War coming drawing to an end. And in 1988, the "U.S. declares its policy successful":

The end of the war comes with a ceasefire under conditions that reflect the U.S. government's best hopes. A classified State Department document states: "We can legitimately assert that our post-Irangate policy has worked. The outward thrust of the Iranian revolution has been stopped. Iraq's interests in development, modernity and regional influence should compel it in our direction. We should welcome and encourage the interest, and respond accordingly."

Saddam's Rise To Power



seekerof

[edit on 26-6-2004 by Seekerof]

Originally posted by FreeMason
Sauron, your entire post is full of "Teicher claims". That's not facts, that is Teicher claiming.

And it is easy for Teicher to make claims like "the administration wanted to ensure Iraq-Iran war would at least end in a draw." Because Teicher is claiming this "after the fact".

Where is the "proof" the doccuments, the speeches, the memorandums??? The evidence?

One man making claims is hardly a fact

The current "facts" are that the US did protect its interests during the Iraq-Iran war, it did send its fleet to the Persian Gulf to prevent Iran from interrupting oil traffic and prevent the eventual collapse of Iraq because if Iran dominated everything then their religious regime would attempt to conquer smaller neighbors. Kuwait was very affraid of this.

This does not mean that we went so far as to actively aid Iraq, which "Teicher claims".

I love Sauron, how you get your facts from "alternet". I think you need Otts' advice more than I do.

Where is the "proof" the doccuments, the speeches, the memorandums??? The evidence?

I have all 7 of them but it's not worth my while to post them if you wish to see them click the link below. So there you are ,,fact 1

Iraq doesn't use Abrams, they use T-72s.
Iraq doesn't use M-16s, they use AK-47s.
Iraq doesn't use 5.51s, they use 7.62s.

Not any of my posts claimed any of the above ,,fact 2

Well see that's the issue Sauron, you seem to think that USA and CCCP had some cause of the Iran-Iraq war.

I never said I think that the USA or the USSR caused the Iran / Iraq war ,,fact 3

I love Sauron, how you get your facts from "alternet". I think you need Otts' advice more than I do.

I sourced 13 different sources but I used 3, is the National Security Archive a good enogh source? I think so.

If you weren't saying we didn't start the Iran-Iraq war then what the hell were you saying?

I was stating who it was that armed the Iraqis, it was America, Britain, Italy and France, god knows who else,

But now you bring it up who did fire the first shot?

Iraq did, Saddam was planning a "blitzkrieg" attack, which horribly backfired due to the fanatical zeal of the Iranians.

You made that claim I'm still waiting for the proof I asked for but instead you went into the chat room?

And one more thing you apparently need to swear in your posts I would appreciate it if you refrand from doing so in any further post to me, it's just a respect thing I have I'm sure you understand so I will thank you in advance.


source
National Security Archive Electronic Briefing Book No. 82

www.gwu.edu...

Bush Senior: Hating Saddam, Selling Him Weapons
www.alternet.org...

The World History Archives
www.hartford-hwp.com...
www.hartford-hwp.com...

video link of Rumsfield shaking Hussein's hand in Baghdad in December 20, 1983
www.gwu.edu...






























[edit on 27-6-2004 by Sauron]