15 Y/O Shot In Back After Throwing Rocks At Old Man....Can This Be Justified?

I kind of feel about this the same way I feel about something else: I don't know if they do this where you guys live, but around here when a car full of teenagers die in a car accident, the locals and fellow teenagers will put up a roadside cross at the site where the accident occurred.Oh what a nice gesture, you might say, to put up across honoring those poor youths who were so tragically killed..........
I say baloney.Because you find out they were out drinking (underage), getting highly intoxicated, then decide to get in a car and drive 73 in a 35 MPH zone, miss a curve and they are killed. I have a hard time feeling sorry for them.That is not a "tragedy".Your own stupid actions resulted in your own death.9/11 was a tragedy- being an idiot that gets you killed is not.

Originally posted by getreadyalready
I can think of instances where shooting in the back are still justified to keep the public safe.

However, it is not justified to use lethal force in response to rock throwing and pranks! If the old man was known to be grouchy and the kids got a kick out of riling him up, then I am sure he was overly frustrated. The old farmers in my town would have used shotguns full of rock salt. That is teaching someone a lesson without killing them. Also, the old man could have repeatedly called police until they were as frustrated as he was and they finally did something about it. Using a gun in response to a rock thrown at a house or a car is not appropriate, and it is sad anytime someone's kid has to die.

I am all about gun rights, and rarely do I criticize someone that seemed to be acting in self-defense and fear, but from what I know on this case so far, this guy was completely wrong and should go to jail!

What a sad situation, my heart is just stricken. Your repsonse was very level, and you tried to see on both sides. He did the wrong thing, but when a victim, one doesnt feel normal, they're usually in post traumatic stress syndrome themselves, I can think back to an abusive relationship to say it took years to overcome, and red outs are very likely in a situation like this.

I don't believe in jail unless someone is a repeat psycho killer. He's going to have to live with this for his remaining years, and to move on will need to feel great shame over this entire act. There was wrong on all sides.

Forgiveness and eventually self forgiveness is going to have to occur on all sides.

I would recommend counseling for everyone involved.

reply to post by v3_exceed

Why were the kids terrorizing him in the first place? A rock is considered a deadly weapon. Try terrorizing and throwing rocks at a police car/police person like this and see if you don't also end up shot.

Well we see this at protest and riots all of the time. The usually respond with tear gas, tasers, rubber bullets, or clubs. Police are not allowed to go from simple assault to lethal force. There is a use of force continuim. They aren't allowed to shoot you for throwing small rocks at their car or them. Especially if you run. If the threat is over they can persue and use a taser or mace to stop you. That is it unless they completely disregard the rules for use of force.

Who cares though. We should all start shooting at people for vandalism. Then we'll have a truly great society.

Who knows if the kid was even throwing rocks. Maybe, his friends were throwing rocks and he was hanging back. It doesn't say in the article, so anything you think of the kid is based on assumptions.

reply to post by hotbakedtater


This is what happens when someone feels backed in to a corner, the old man obviously felt nobody was able to fix the problem so he fixed it.
I am usually totally against the use of weapons but the fact is in today's society people are able to rely less on offical channels for resolving issues and when this happens you can be damn sure most human beings will use their animal instinct to protect themself and their property.

I agree with what others have said, this kid was obviously a trouble maker, he was the one that created the situation and the old guy was simply putting a stop to it - if he had of shot him in the leg the kid would of probably turned around and sued the guy for all he is worth. I hope this sends a message to these young pricks that people are not going to put up with their abuse.

The mother of this kid should of disapplined him before someone else had to.

reply to post by fraterormus


Oh, he's going to be in civil court no matter what. If the mother doesn't act on her own, some ambulance-chaser lawyer will knock her door down to represent her. I'm sure half the phone calls she's gotten after the fact have been from those f***ing parasites.

Not saying what he did is right, but yeah, he's screwed even if he gets let off the criminal complaint.

It takes two to tango. Both people are to blame for what happened. The kid shouldnt havent been throwing rocks and the old man shouldn't have shot the kid. For all of you who believe in karma, unfortunately what the old man did was wrong. There is no excuse whatsoever to kill anyone who is unarmed and running away. It may be true that what happened to the kid may have been karma, but because the man gave in to his weakness and couldnt take it and shot the kid which itself was a negative action and was wrong, sometime in his current life or next life if you believe in reincarnation, that action will come back to effect him in the next. What goes around comes around goes both ways.

reply to post by hotbakedtater


I beg to differ about the non lethal ammunition because of certain legal issues. I was researching quite a bit on non lethal rubber bullets, bean bags, etc. and found that the intruder has a high probability of being able to sue you. I read many forums and everyone says it is a big no no. As far as shooting a kid in the back I'd say that is a no no to. Although it is hard to distinguish serious thugs from kids horsing around. Kids are such punks these days. I am a 28 year old who minds his business, but unfortuneately I ride the city bus and encounter tons of thugs of all races on a daily basis. They are so hostile toward the innocent and peaceful. I am so fed up right now with punks right now, I could probably shoot one easily if provoked given the right circumstances. If it was dark and the kids tone was right it would be hard to distinguish them from hostile thugs. SF thanks for the thought provoking discussion.

How can anyone justify the man's actions? He murdered a teenager. He's a child killer. There's nothing more to it.

I am fairly non-violent, however, I say bravo

reload and shoot again.
It is a very bad sign when people lose respect for their elders...this is a clear case of just that..tossing rocks at the elderly?
Sorry, but such examples should be very few and far between, but it is necessary. Perhaps the mother should have been instilling into her son some respect. The blood is on her hands if she allowed her son to get away with all of this...parents, start being a parent and stop letting the media, government, and gaming industry raise your child. Then, maybe they won't be tossing rocks at our elders, and get a well deserved bullet in them for such.

I would however suggest the next person that wants to shoot a yob, to aim not for the back, but for the arse. less death thing...they cant learn and teach others the valueable lesson if they are dead....

I wish we lived in a perfect world where everyone was respectful and thoughtful, but we aren't, and so these types of lessons now and then are still needed.

an incomplete story. however, i am 65 and have very limited resourses. if i expect social security to be soon negligible ( i do), then i can look at my resources and have an idea of when i must starve to death, if i dont have unexpected expenses, which can happen anytime. barbarians throwing rocks through my windows in an area of cold winters, cause me to burn thru my resources. from the old man's point of view, the idiots were killing him in a manner his society refused to recognize. i pity the old man if his situation was like this.

Jesus, said u live by the sword u die by the sword, now this old man in all likely hood is going to prison, and the kid is dead. he should have just in the air and scared the crap out of them.

Jesus, said u live by the sword u die by the sword, now this old man in all likely hood is going to prison, and the kid is dead. he should have just in the air and scared the crap out of them.

Originally posted by randomname
Jesus, said u live by the sword u die by the sword, now this old man in all likely hood is going to prison, and the kid is dead. he should have just in the air and scared the crap out of them.

Exactly. He didn't have to murder the kid for throwing some rocks.

Absolutely disgusting.

Originally posted by MikeNice81
reply to post by v3_exceed

 

Who knows if the kid was even throwing rocks. Maybe, his friends were throwing rocks and he was hanging back. It doesn't say in the article, so anything you think of the kid is based on assumptions.

You obviously didn't read my earlier posts.
Also, in a lot of those videos, the police are wearing riot gear which the old man did not.
I still stand by what I wrote.

..Ex

Tell me something.. How come cops use tear gas during riots where rocks are being hurled by full grown adults? Why dont they just go in there spraying automatic weapons fire indiscriminately into the crowd? Because rocks dont justify deadly force. When something happens like say..ohhh Iran or Tienemen Square theres an outrage when someone gets killed for disturbing the peace, which is in essence what these kids were doing. I didnt read the articles but Im going to go out on a limb here and guess this kid was black..Am I right?, Im not even going to check. Do you call for action when a protestor in Iran gets capped, or somewhere else? Then why not call for justice now? If you think this shooting was justified dont ever complain about cops again, because believe me you are sick and twisted. If you can shoot somebody for throwing rocks, then Im down with martial law and cant wait to see people with those kinds of beliefs hearded into FEMA Kamps and sterilyzed.

And to answer the question..Is shooting someone in the back ever justified? HA justifiation..what a joke..but Ill answer it anyway..Sure itd be justified if looking the person in the face made you so disgusted that your aim might be off.

Originally posted by psyko45
Tell me something.. How come cops use tear gas during riots where rocks are being hurled by full grown adults? Why dont they just go in there spraying automatic weapons fire indiscriminately into the crowd? Because rocks dont justify deadly force.

Yes, Rocks are harmless



Tell me...if you had the opportunity...would you give that girl in the video a gun...or should she not be afraid...after all, they are just rocks.


riot gear cops are alright...because they are dressed in armor, helmets, shields, etc...

around the time of the kent state shootings , i read an editorial by john campbell in analog, a sciencefiction-fact magazine. he told the story of a railline inspector who was charged by a grizzley bear. the man was unarmed,but his hobby was baseball pitching. rocks were handy, and the grizzley bought the farm. rocks can be deadly.

reply to post by SaturnFX


Thank you for posting that Video. It's easy to say rocks aren't lethal, completely forgetting that it's a form of capital punishment in other parts of the world. True the slanted artical doesn't say they pelted the old guy with rocks as well, but it also doesn't say they didn't. I wonder how many posting here would let someone throw rocks at their house, their car, themselves their loved ones before they had enough.

..Ex

There's an old rule that men follow and it goes like this:
"Never fight an old man. He can't win, so he'll just kill you."

Screw with an old bull, like these thugs were doing and you'll get the horns eventually.

reply to post by SaturnFX


Come on man!! Youve got to be kidding me. Im not watching that video again. Is this really what was going on with the shooter in this case? If it was ..you have my apologies. If not...Come on man!! I also realize somebodys probably going to say.."David killed Goliath with a pebble"

Its not going to make it any more realistic, just because somebodys going to cliche it up for lack of intelligence.

BTW..good reply, the vid and all...Im not being sarcastic either.

ps...
What does riot gear have to do with anything? The old guy had a HOUSE.