15 Y/O Shot In Back After Throwing Rocks At Old Man....Can This Be Justified?

reply to post by thisguyrighthere


There is a lot of gray area, I agree with that. There are also too many people that think guns and gunfights resemble what is on TV. If a gang is assembling on your property and you call the police, they will respond. If they haven't responded in about 5 minutes, you call again and tell them that you are afraid and that if they don't respond, you may have to use your gun. At the very least, you now have two 911 recordings to use in your defense in court.

I think intentionally escalating a situation is a very bad idea if your true motivation is protecting yourself. If you just want to shoot someone, then maybe it is a good strategy, but that should not be your motivation to begin with.

I have been in multiple fights when I was armed, and I have never considered pulling out my gun. As a matter of fact the opponent never even knew I had the gun. As a matter of fact on one of the occasions I was questioned by the police and released, and they never even knew I had the gun!! I have taken my shotgun with its bright xenon light outside at night to investigate odd sounds, and I used it as a flashlight. If something dangerous stepped in front of that bright light, it would have gotten filled with shotgun shells.

What scares me is that it sounds so romantic and tough to talk about how someone needed shot. If you have ever witnessed somebody struggling for their last few breaths, it is not something that should be taken lightly. If you love anybody in this world, you should think of them before you decide to take a life. If you have ever done something stupid that you regretted, you should think of that before you dole out the death penalty.

I can't believe I survived my teen years. According to this thread, 6 or 10 of you would have loved to have had the opportunity to kill me! I can't believe I have never shot anybody. According to this thread, I have had at least a dozen justifiable opportunities. Hell, I should be Billie the Kid by now!

Gray areas? Sure. Easy answers? No way! Taking a life? Absolutely, positively last resort and only in defense of your own life! Warning shots? Waste of ammo, time, and possible way to get yourself shot. Hope that helps.

reply to post by getreadyalready

What scares me is that it sounds so romantic and tough to talk about how someone needed shot.

That is what bugs me more than anything about this thread. People act like some how taking a life is a simple thing. If you honestly believe that killing somebody over a bit of broken property is justifiable, turn in your gun. The last thing responsible gun owners need is a bunch of keyboard commandos talking like idiots. The statements made in this thread are the ones that anti-gun advocates love to hear.

I do want to think the responsible gun owners that have shown up in this thread. It is great to see people representing gun owners in a positive light.

Getready, I agree completely with your last post.

reply to post by getreadyalready


A great post
A lot of people don't seem to take in consideration what
the responsibility of gun ownership is.I have a licence to
carry,I am not a trained police officer!

reply to post by hotbakedtater


If someone is throwing rocks at your property than no, especially if its just some punk kid, but if he himself was being hit by rocks and they were good sized ones (not pebbles) than its self-defense (unless the kid was running away). People really need to start buying tasers though, I'm tired of hearing stories with senseless killings, we need to spread the word that there are non-lethal weapon alternatives to guns when it comes to defense of self and property.

reply to post by thisguyrighthere


I had a 13 year old shoot a hole in my front porch. He was a menacing thug in the neighborhood I lived in. He got worse as he got older made more friends like himself and continued to terrorize the place and from what I hear still is. I had enough, I own guns have no tolerance for this kind of thing and basically the police said they could not do a damn thing about the juveniles. They put them in jail and they are out the next day. They took a 9MM off this kid who shot the hole in my porch, took the bullet out of my porch. matched it up to the gun they took off of him but because no one seen him shoot the gun they could not do anything to him.
I guess he is exposing himself now and breaking into houses. I got the hell out of that neighborhood because I knew I would shoot this kid or one of his friends if he messed with me again. So I know somewhat what the poor old man felt like. You can call the police and call them and they can not really do anything and most will be honest and tell you that.

reply to post by Titen-Sxull


This is why I encourage gun owners to also carry mace or pepper spray. It is a lot easier to justify macing a potential atacker than shooting them. Plus, you don't have to worry about the moral weight that comes from taking a life.

A lot of people train in martial arts and carry a gun. They just never seem to realize that there is a gap between the two. Proper escelation of force (in most places) does not allow fo a jump from simple assault to lethal force. Pepper spray or a shocking device can help you wade through that gray area.

Lethal force is always a last resort. The first choice is to walk away.

reply to post by MikeNice81


Good idea about the pepper spray and mace.
I found a web site that shows you how to make
your own pepper spray.I have the recipe around
here somewhere.

Originally posted by getreadyalready
There is a lot of gray area, I agree with that. There are also too many people that think guns and gunfights resemble what is on TV. If a gang is assembling on your property and you call the police, they will respond. If they haven't responded in about 5 minutes, you call again and tell them that you are afraid and that if they don't respond, you may have to use your gun. At the very least, you now have two 911 recordings to use in your defense in court.

Most of your post rings true, but you've seriously never called the cops in my area. They can take 30 minutes to an hour to show up at a scene where someone has been hurt, and after the initial incident the detectives are useless at returning calls.

They might be over worked, so am not saying either way but depending on the day and what's happening they're not an effective solution.

No, this guy is going to jail.

If he was in actual fear for his life, he would not have tried to hide the evidence, likewise it is hard to claim you are in fear for your life if the thug is running away. KY state law's castle doctrine is quite clear on the matter. If these guys would have been coming into the house that would have been a different story but from what I see, he fired in anger and not self-defense.

Originally posted by infolurker
If he was in actual fear for his life, he would not have tried to hide the evidence

That's not necessarily true.

In the heat of the moment, it's extremely difficult to judge a situation objectively.

He may have genuinely feared for his life at the time, but after he shot the boy, he may have then realised that his actions had been an over-reaction and wouldn't be seen sympathetically in the eyes of the law, which may have led to him attempting to hide the evidence.

It's controversial but im sick of anti-social behavior and I would happily shoot one of the little bastards if I could. He won't do it again will he? He clearly isn't going to make a major impact on society in his future life if he entertains himself by throwing rocks at old me.

Fair play old boy!

... Show some respect? YA WHY DONT YOU SHOW SOME RESPECT YOU HYPOCRITES!? How uncaring and heartless can you be all be? People on this site wonder why I hate the human race. I hope all of you burn in hell. A BOY WAS SHOT IN THE BACK!! IN THE BACK! WHICH MEANS HE WAS NOT ABOUT TO THROW A ROCK AND KILL THE OLD GUY. WTF IS A MATTER WITH ALL OF YOU!? JESUS CHRIST!

edit: Have we lost all empathy and compassion? Seriously, my heart is turning right now. AGHH!! I'm infuriated beyond all recognition.

Originally posted by sliceNodice
How uncaring and heartless can you be all be?

Originally posted by sliceNodice
I hope all of you burn in hell.

LOL.


Speaking personally, I don't think the boy deserved to die, nor do I think intentionally shooting someone in the back is justified.

It's easy to make judgements about this case from behind our keyboards, but we don't know the full circumstances of this case.

Until we do, we can only speculate about it.


What is clear, is that if this lad had not been throwing rocks in the first place, then the shooting would never have occurred.

reply to post by Sherlock Holmes


WHY SHOULD I CARE ABOUT YOU ALL!? GIVE ME ONE GOD DAMN REASON!? I HATE YOU ALL TO THE CORE. Sure, I used to care about you and have a heart for you, but that slowly withered away...

reply to post by hotbakedtater


it always depends on the circumstances, killing anybody is wrong, but what they are charged with should depend on the circumstances, if O.P. is a one of incident then it is very wrong, however if the man was terrorized everyday or on a regular basis, and the old man explored ever possible action to get it to stop and nothing was done about it, then it is only logically to expect the man to snap if it continued.

we see the same thing with school teachers snapping and of course spouses who are on the receiving end of verbal abuse and violence almost everyday. although killing people in these circumstances is still wrong, you can understand more why that person acted the way they did.

Originally posted by sliceNodice
WHY SHOULD I CARE ABOUT YOU ALL!? GIVE ME ONE GOD DAMN REASON!? I HATE YOU ALL TO THE CORE. Sure, I used to care about you and have a heart for you, but that slowly withered away...

I'm a little perturbed that you class all ATS members as you ( plural ). I find it insulting to be labelled in the same bracket as some of these other ATS members.

Seriously though, don't hate. Hate is very destructive, and doesn't do anybody any favours ( least of all the actual ''hater'' ).

Originally posted by jexmo
It's controversial but im sick of anti-social behavior and I would happily shoot one of the little bastards if I could. He won't do it again will he? He clearly isn't going to make a major impact on society in his future life if he entertains himself by throwing rocks at old me.

Fair play old boy!

Throwing rocks at somebody's house is "anti-social behavior?" You seriously never messed with anybody when you were a teenager? You seriously think the death penalty is appropriate for something that isn't even vandalism?

When I was a kid I was standing with a group of boys that were throwing rocks at passing cars. One car (a nice corvette!) slammed on the brakes, a BIG guy popped out, swooped up a boy, turned him over the back of the car and paddled him real, real good! We were all speechless and too scared to even run! The guy said, "I just had this car painted, you could have hurt someone, you think about that next time!" Then he drove away. I guarantee that kid never threw another rock the rest of his life!!

We used to knock on this one old guys door and run. He was grouchy and we annoyed him on purpose. One night just before halloween we had done it a bunch and he got wise. He snuck around the back of the house and tried to grab us as we ran, then he gave chase. To my SURPRISE the neighbor had put up a new clothesline and had sat out some buckets for new plants. My buddy got clotheslined violently and went crashing down hard, as I kept running and laughing I caught some buckets of dirt to the shins and went head over heels. The old man and the neighbor stood and laughed and recognized us, and we spent the next day helping to clean up the back yard and planting the rest of their flowers.

That is how things are supposed to get done. Adults are adults, kids are kids, and typical teenage pranks come with life lessons not death penalties!

Originally posted by getreadyalready
I can think of instances where shooting in the back are still justified to keep the public safe.

However, it is not justified to use lethal force in response to rock throwing and pranks! If the old man was known to be grouchy and the kids got a kick out of riling him up, then I am sure he was overly frustrated. The old farmers in my town would have used shotguns full of rock salt. That is teaching someone a lesson without killing them. Also, the old man could have repeatedly called police until they were as frustrated as he was and they finally did something about it. Using a gun in response to a rock thrown at a house or a car is not appropriate, and it is sad anytime someone's kid has to die.

I am all about gun rights, and rarely do I criticize someone that seemed to be acting in self-defense and fear, but from what I know on this case so far, this guy was completely wrong and should go to jail!

your wrong on so many levels..."kids" if you can call them that, are as vicious as ever. they think being violent is just a game. good for that old guy, if more people started defending themselves from these punks, they might think twice about attacking someone. ooohhh poor kids, someone didn't think it was a game, and defended themselves....i have no sympathy, whatsoever

Originally posted by sliceNodice
... Show some respect? YA WHY DONT YOU SHOW SOME RESPECT YOU HYPOCRITES!? How uncaring and heartless can you be all be? People on this site wonder why I hate the human race. I hope all of you burn in hell. A BOY WAS SHOT IN THE BACK!! IN THE BACK! WHICH MEANS HE WAS NOT ABOUT TO THROW A ROCK AND KILL THE OLD GUY. WTF IS A MATTER WITH ALL OF YOU!? JESUS CHRIST!

edit: Have we lost all empathy and compassion? Seriously, my heart is turning right now. AGHH!! I'm infuriated beyond all recognition.

edit on 14-10-2010 by sliceNodice because: (no reason given)

Ok perhaps my reply was a bit heartless and i was just making a point. I wouldn't shoot anybody, I can't even kill spiders and i hate the bloody things.

But what i will not go back on is the fact that the world would be a better place without youths who will make no positive contribution to society and spend their time winding up old people because they are too cowardly to do it to somebody able and well like myself. It's pathetic and if he was antagonising the old man then a lot of people will learn from this incident.

I am not condoning killing someone, but if he got a telling off, do you think that would have stopped him doing it again? The old man complains to the police who will say, sorry were too busy to do anything and you have no proof, it's you word against his. Even if they did do something, it would have been a telling off and then the old man would have got even more grief for going to the police.

I feel sorry for the old man. If you want to know what im talking about. Look up a film called Harry Brown starring Michael Caine and another film called Shank and you will understand my views because the first film shows the problems we have with anti-social behavior in the U.K and the 2nd film is what some people genuinely think is going to happen or is happening.

If something was done about people like the young boy who was shot then maybe the old man wouldn't have had to do what he did.

Reply to post by getreadyalready

We used to knock on this one old guys door and run. He was grouchy and we annoyed him on purpose.

Isnt that a lot like touching fire because it's hot?

Glad I wasn't such an obnoxious and destructive kid. This is why I hate people. Their behavior disrupts life for countless others and the only thing they ever do is rationalize it, justify it and pass it off as "good 'ol fun."

What a hoot to torment another human being and destroy his property! Woo-hoo.

This is just insane:

When I was a kid I was standing with a group of boys that were throwing rocks at passing cars

The potential to cause a wreck wasnt enough of a deterrent? I suppose if somebody veered into oncoming traffic or freaked out and slammed into a pole and the passengers coated the upholstery with organs and blood it'd still just be a "teenage prank?"

About as funny as chaining a door shut and setting the building on fire.

Too many sadist among us.

Hurling rocks at anyone or anything isnt a prank. It's assault.


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