Sick Of Paying Your Mortgage? You May Not Have To Pay!

Originally posted by mnemeth1
I care not if a miniscule amount of people walk away with free houses

What proof do you have that the house is yours?

well, it didn't take me long to figure out that it's still just one big screwed up mess...

a couple in houston, bought a house, and, they've been paying bank of america their mortgage payment for the last 2 years, just like they are supposed to!!! since they bought the house, I guess the title insurance company had gone bankrupt?? and well, now, wells fargo is foreclosing on them, seems that the title was never transferred to them, and wells fargo held the mortgage for the previous owner???

consumerist.com...



shredded notes, titles not transferred over, people mindless signing legal paperwork attesting to it's accuracy.....

and a gov't that seems to want to sweep the whole thing under the rug than do anything to rectify the problem!!!!

seems to me that the real estate/banking industry has a legal responsibility to protect the integrity of the title.....and it seems that they have been negligent in this area, very, very negligent!! and, well, I got a feeling it's gonna take an act of congress to rectify the problem....
and our congress can't get together to even provide the funding that they've already spent.....

I think the first thing I would do, if foreclosure papers came to me would be to go and get an attorney to do a careful evaluation of the state of the title...if it's tarnished, well, counter sue!! or well, you could just take it for granted that it's tarnished and give the house back to the bank....after all, if it's tarnished, I would think it has lost considerable value anyways.

but, I am in no way a legal expert, or an expert of any kind really, I am just relying what I've read on-line, and well, I think most know how that is, might be right, might not be, heck, might be information that is posted, by some group who's main intention is to bring down the economy....I've written to state my state representatives, as well, as federal, asking about this, and all I've gotten back was a thank you, will get back to ya about it...
so, I don't know...

maybe more people should raise up this issue?? I mean, where is the moral justification for us to be paying these mortgages in the first place, if the actions that took place after we signed our names to the paperwork by these companies degraded the values of these homes by 50% or more???

What is a mortgage note?
Anyway I just paid mine off. It took hard work and a lot of doing without so I hope no one gets away with anything. There are too many freeloaders around who think the world owes them a living. Many of you wouldn't recognise real hardship if it bit you on the nose.

reply to post by starchild10


have you gotten the title to the house yet????
or, did you just get some robosigned piece of paper from a bank saying that you have paid off the mortgage???
is the paperwork in order to prove that the ones you were paying the mortgage to had the legal right to accept payment???


just some questions that will never probably be answered.

like I said, sweep the whole thing under the rug, let the taxpayers pay for the mess, and well, we can find some excuse if the crap hits the fans later and a bunch of homeowners are stuck in limbo when they go to sell their house and learn that the title has been crapped on so badly that it's not insurable!!! if the truth be told, they are probably counting on most of us never paying for the house, and well, they can just shove the mess to a back closet and let it grow, heck, get some taxpayer money to buy a bigger closet with the one they are using gets full!!!
I don't want nothing I didn't pay for, but I do expect my rights to be protected, along with the banks!!! my property rights shouldn't be quietly sacrificed, because the banks and shareholders are just "too big to fail"!!! this is america, land of freedom and equility!! the gov't shouldn't have "too big to fails" and too small to care abouts!

reply to post by starchild10


oh, ya...real hardship!!!

like eating one meal every other day, for weeks, just to make sure there's enough food for the rest of your family...
or.....falling on the cement floor at work because you can't walk worth crap and the healthcare hasn't come up with the answer...and, of course you can't quit the job without losing the healthcare benefit!!!

na, hardship??? have no idea what you are talking about there!

I saw the case in Houston on the news. This couple is definitely stuck in limbo. There's been no follow up report.

I, like you, don't want something for nothing. I've exhausted all of our retirement funds and savings to make payments up until this summer. There is just no money. I was laid off over two years ago and my husband was laid off last year. I couldn't find a job in my prior field so instead of sitting on my behind I started cleaning houses and have built up some business. It is not however enough to pay everything. My husband's field was vehicle inspection for the state. He has been doing this on his own but it isn't bringing in much money. He is still looking for a job of any kind.

I tried working with the mortgage company when I first got laid off. On the phone they said I was definitely a candidate for the modification program. Did all the paperwork, sent everything in, declined - for the very reasons that made me eligible.

When I first was going to be delinquent, I called them again and asked if they could defer a couple of payments to the end of the note. Answer no all we can offer is modification (already declined) or short sale.

So, as a last ditch effort, sent the produce the note letter. They sent a copy of the original note that was with the original mortgage company. It was stamped as a true and certified copy of the original by the second mortgage company. They refused to tell me who the current noteholder is. I'm dealing with a servicing company. I sent another letter and told them a copy was not sufficient and that I was requesting they produce the original note for my inspection. Did not ask them to mail it to me - that would be foolish on their part since it isn't paid off. I really think they don't have it. I think the second mortgage company actually destroyed all their original paperwork for all their loans. I don't even know if they are still in business.

The letter of acceleration did finally say who the proposed noteholder is and it is one of the trusts for bundled mortgages. I wasn't even a sub prime borrower. My score when we bought the house was close to 800. BTW, we bought the house in 2002 so its not like we are dead beats. I haven't been to a grocery store for a significant purchase in months. We are just making do with what we have. Thank goodness we were stocked up. Not sure how much longer that will last either.

My next step is to go to the county records and see what is filed. I've also contacted an attorney that I've done other business with to see if he is interested in taking the case.

As a last resort, I guess we will file bankruptcy. Not too worried about my credit, its already screwed. Besides, if I don't have any credit then I can't use it. Cash all the way.

EDIT: I've also contacted the state attorney general. I believe the servicer committed fraud in declining the modification as there was a special program under the govt modification program specifically for those on unemployment and they were required to offer it. And I decided wth, sent letters to all my representatives as well. Will update if anybody responds.

reply to post by starchild10


BTW, even if you get the title, what will you do when another company shows up with the original note saying you owe them?

There was situation, in FL I believe, where a woman was foreclosed on. They took the house and two months later the original noteholder showed up wanting their money.

Congratulations on paying yours off. I've cleared two mortgages in my life. Its a good feeling.

No further response from mortgage company regarding the inspection of the original note. Went to the county courthouse and the records are screwed. MERS is all over it filing release of liens to several companies that I've never heard of but no release for the company that I had at the time I received Litton's letter saying my note was sold and they were now the servicer.

Seeing an attorney next Wed and will post updates if possible.

Haven't been to the attorney yet. But did receive another letter from the servicing company. They have been sold and my account is being transferred effective 11-1-11. The new servicer is Ocwen. Have read some pretty bad stuff about them too but also some good solutions.

Will have to wait and see. Have not received the foreclosure sale notice yet so not sure what will happen with that now.

Will ask the attorney.

reply to post by mnemeth1



What if you filed bankruptcy already? Can i get the money back i put into the house?

Originally posted by TXTriker
Haven't been to the attorney yet. But did receive another letter from the servicing company. They have been sold and my account is being transferred effective 11-1-11. The new servicer is Ocwen. Have read some pretty bad stuff about them too but also some good solutions.

Will have to wait and see. Have not received the foreclosure sale notice yet so not sure what will happen with that now.

Will ask the attorney.

Attorney not very helpful. Referred me to two others to talk to about. Haven't heard anything else from servicers or lenders.

Will update as info comes available.

reply to post by cloaked4u


You should probably talk to your bankruptcy attorney. I'm pretty sure that since it is in bankruptcy that court would have to make any decisions. Here's hoping I made 2 lines.

Update: The taxing authority for Harris County TX (Houston area) is filing a lawsuit against MERS due to lack of filings. Approx loss to county in fees = $10M.

I've also advised the county judge for our county about it and the fact that my property records are not complete as respects filings. There are several release of liens filed to companies that I was never aware were on my mortgage, no release of lien to the last company that was and no assignment filings to the other companies prior to the release of lien filings. How can you release lien if the note was never transferred to that entity? Who do I owe now? The last mortgage company I had was New Century who apparently is now bankrupt. They sold the servicing just months before they filed for bankruptcy. I have never been notified that the note was sold - only the servicing.

No further word from servicer since last request for original note. No notice of sale of property yet. My servicer was sold to Ocwen effective 11-1-11.

Have been referred to another attorney but have not talked to them yet. Will update when I do.

reply to post by TXTriker


Hi TX

Ask your lender to show you the ORIGINAL PROMISSORY NOTE (not a photocopy or an electronic copy etc. but the one that was 'PHYSICALLY SIGNED with INK SIGNATURES' and no other document.

Most have resold the original promisory notes off long ago, and then the new owner of the note sold it off to another party etc. etc. sometimes up to 25 times -

So who exactly is holding your paper? Until you see the ORIGINAL PROMISORY NOTE (and not a copy) you do not know 'for sure !' and they cannot prosecute you - any judge will ask the lender - 'show me the note' and most only comply with copies of copies - but you can interject and say, "NO - I WANT TO SEE THE ORIGINAL SIGNED DOCS'...and then the bank/lender has to suddenly call for a post-ponement of procedures !!!

reply to post by Sigismundus


I've sent 3 letters to them. The only real problem is Texas can go non judicial on the foreclosure. That means they only have to notify me of the foreclosure sale date and post it at the courthouse. The house can then be sold on the first Tuesday of the month. Texas does allow for judicial foreclosure and I'm trying to do everything I can to push it in that direction so that I can require the papers.

The only thing they sent me was a copy of a note stamped "This is a true and certified copy of the original". This was given to them by New Century in, I believe, November. Bankruptcy was filed, I believe, the following April. There is no date on the certification and only initials of who stamped it.

I've read so many articles, etc. I have trouble keeping all the dates correct. I've printed most of the articles or saved the websites in a separate document.

I'm hoping to find a lawyer that wants a new revenue stream that will take my case pro bono to develop the necessary tactics to fight these. I know that a newby could create issues but there don't seem to be too many attorneys in Texas doing this. I haven't been able to find any. Besides, I don't have the money to pay an attorney any way.

I have gone to the county and copied any filings that were separate from the closing documents so I know the records in the county can't be correct.

Thanks for your response and if you have any other information it would be greatly appreciated.

UPDATE: Spoke to the lawyer this morning. She is very familiar with the "produce the note" strategy. She advised it absolutely will NOT work in Texas. The judicial system in Texas is "offended" by the prospect that someone might get their house for free.

As I've stated I'm not trying to get my house for free. I just want a reasonable work out that allows me to pay for my house.

She did advise that in Texas, since I have a home equity loan, they cannot use non judicial foreclosure. They have to sue me. That at least is something. I will know what they are doing because they have to file.

I did discuss the fact that my records at the county appear to be "faulty". She thinks we have a case based on them screwing up the title to the property. It won't get the house for free but it will tie them up for several years and force them to negotiate.

She also advised that they use the taxing authority's property values to determine if you are underwater on the house. They don't care about market value. So I won't qualify for some of the modifications because of this.

I'm meeting with her on 11-2 and will post another update after that.

Another small update. I haven't met with the attorney yet but received an interesting e-mail from our County Judge. I had forwarded him an article about a neighboring county sueing MERS for lost filing fees. I told him that I knew my records were not correct.

I received a response from him to day that the matter has been turned over to the County District Attorney.

Let's see what happens.

Hey everyone look I ask for a copie of my note!!!!!! But I have my signed note from the date. I close on my home.!!!! The funny thing is the sent me a copies an they was not my signature. Look like they try to sign my name and the people that. Signed ass witnesses. ( not that they Try (they Did) what should. I do