Science Can’t Teach Us Right From Wrong, Between Good and Bad

Charles Darwin thought that any animal endowed with well marked social instincts would inevitably acquire a moral sense or conscience, as its intellectual powers approximated man's.

A more secular view is based on intellectual values like skepticism and critical thinking while others focus on political or moral values.

A popular claim among religious theists is that atheists have no basis for morality that religion and God are needed for moral values; although both have empathy. Does this bring us directly back to a person’s conscience? Is it simply humanity or something more?

The self control theory states morality is a strong and independent predictor of crime and deviance therefore the effects of which exceed those of self-control. The results also suggest that, when criminal motivation and morality are taken into consideration, a significant impact of self-control may be limited to specific types of misbehavior.

The term Morality is not used very much. People do sometimes talk about Christian morality, Hitler morality, or about the morality of the Greeks, Romans, etc but they seldom talk simply about morality all by itself.

The lack of moral values in society, and the need to do something about it, is becoming increasingly recognized.

The “Universal Declaration of Human Responsibilities” states. No person, no group, no organization, no state, no army or police stands above good and evil; all are subject to ethical standards. Everyone has a responsibility to promote good and to avoid evil in all things.

I admit I am Christian and know Christian Atheists and others who are genuinely good moral people.

The problem is who decides what is good and what is not? And to whom are we accountable?

Where lies the ultimate source of moral authority?

Conscience is an aptitude, faculty, intuition, or judgment of the intellect that distinguishes right from wrong. Moral evaluations of this type may reference values or norms (principles and rules). In psychological terms conscience is often described as leading to feelings of remorse when a human does things that go against his/her moral values, and to feelings of rectitude or integrity when actions conform to such norms.[1] The extent to which conscience informs moral judgment before an action and whether such moral judgments are, or should be, based wholly in reason has occasioned debate through much of the history of Western philosophy. en.wikipedia.org...

Morality (from the Latin moralities "manner, character, proper behavior") is a sense of behavioral conduct that differentiates intentions, decisions, and actions between those that are good (or right) and bad (or wrong). A moral code is a system of morality (for example, according to a particular philosophy, religion, culture, etc.) and a moral is any one practice or teaching within a moral code. en.wikipedia.org...

Values are related to the norms of a culture, but they are more global and abstract than norms. Norms are rules for behavior in specific situations, while values identify what should be judged as good or evil. en.wikipedia.org...(personal_and_cultural)

reply to post by wonderworld


The law of the land decides, the rest comes from experience. I have been both good and bad in my life, I have learned lessons the hard way, I have learned from my parents. my family and my friends experiences.

Crime comes from a lot of different causes, poverty being high up on the list. Then you have people who just didnt have the family guidence and get it elsewhere from the wrong places, and then you have people who are just thick as pig #, or just wired to be bad.


There has been a lot of religious nutjobs who have blew a fuse and killed people in the name of the lord and so on. So while religion may work for some, its not for everybody.

Some people are just victims of plain old geography, ie where they are born. So I think morals come from lessons learned and guidence, we all see things different so there is no defined route.

reply to post by Horus12


I understand what you are saying but I still think those who are victims of cirrcumstance know right from wrong. I also agree some are just bad to the bone.

Well I don't know about that.
Science will tell you it is in the hands of the cartels.
Then you know what bad is.
People are not given credit for their inventions.
Develop something independently commercially and just
happen to be a big success the law makers leach on to
you.
Perhaps Microsoft and Intel come to mind.
Otherwise working for a company you sign over your rights
as perhaps the inventor of the LP record did.
If not he got a sweetheart deal.

reply to post by Horus12


Many laws come form religious texts, I do believe people need to be taught right from wrong, the older I get the more obvious it becomes that we are living in a morally bankrupt society,

Raising children and watching how sneaky they are, lol, is enough to prove they are not born innocent.

reply to post by Horus12

causes, poverty being high up on the list.

I don't agree with that either, rich and well educated just hire better lawyers or get away with it.

Define misbehavior...chances are there is a disconnect between your perception of the world and others. Victimless crimes and social standards are most times viewed by the ignorant as important...

-Goes to sleep in the dirt for a few hours-

Depends on what you define as "crime." As stated (Stormdancer), white-collar criminals almost always get away with their acts. This is mostly because 1) they can pay the fine and 2) white-collar crime isn't considered to be "criminal." Violent crime however, usually involving the lower classes, is always penalized. Those in the higher echelons of society make the rules, set the boundaries, and carry out the sanctions; they can also of course, get away with just about anything (depending on their connections).

Read the "Saints and the Roughnecks" and you'll see what I mean.

Originally posted by wonderworld
reply to post by Horus12

 

I understand what you are saying but I still think those who are victims of cirrcumstance know right from wrong. I also agree some are just bad to the bone.

Really? When you are desperate, "right and wrong" have no meaning. It's about survival.

And as for poverty being a "cause" of crime...not necessarily. When the law is set to enforce the boundaries around certain groups of people, a resistance forms. This causes deviance. Crime is an "outcome" of deviant behavior. This deviance develops on the basis of many factors: being labeled a deviant and internalizing it (primary + secondary deviance), ingroups and outgroups, geography, who's in control/makes the rules (force of authority), who gets targeted/punished, etc. The very actions we take to deter crime and maintain in actuality cause or reinforce the deviant behavior. Crime waves (high levels of crime over a period of time) are usually a result of these "crackdowns."

What most people fail to understand is how crucial history is to humanity. When history and experiences are lied about, then what does humanity have to look back to in order to know what is good and evil. For instance: History shows us that wars are evil in itself but distortion of truth, with of course population reduction, wars are good. And in the aftermath, usually nations/groups unite/emphasize with their opponents which leads to trade and reconstructions.

In order for us to grow, we need both sides to a problem: Good and evil. And that's all we as a species are evermore: Growing towards our higher self.

it's a loophole and all science can do is provide facts and fictions. And the better the science, the better judgement. The system needs a overhaul in order to sustain itself, like how in order for us as humans to know if our immune systems are working, we get sick once or twice a year. Which leads to better immunity, same for the system.

Imagine it this way: Good is direction up and evil is direction down, facts are right and fiction is left: +
You have yourself a cross and this cross goes in a biorythmic-bell curve, up and down and always to the right (because if its a fact, we move forward)

And all fiction is the past, what we learn from. Now if the past is always distorted then there's no way if we're going the right direction or in this case, fall off.